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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: MacKenzie Clow on Friday 25 March 05 02:06 GMT (UK)
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Hello from Canada :)
I don't have the birthdate and can only guess the year of birth for my GGG Grandfather who left from Westminster in 1808 at age 17 to sail for Canada and work for Hudsons Bay Company. I'm assuming probably 1791 as his birthyear. I don't have his parents names either ::)
I DO have his name - JOHN JAMES SMITH. (It had to be a John Smith as well, didn't it? ::) ;D ) His first child was a son, named RICHARD, so I'm sort of hoping he named his first son after his father. I know, a longshot but maybe ... you never know ;)
QUESTIONS:
1) Is there a census for 1791-ish for Westminster (and would that be MIDDLESEX area) ?
2) Where/what places could I look online for census and/or birth records in that area for 1791-ish birth of that name?
Thank you.
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Hi MacKenzie
A census of the population of England and Wales has been taken every ten years since 1801 with the exception of 1941. The 1841 census was the first to list the names of every individual. So I'm afraid the census won't help you on this one.
There are other sources:
Westminster Poll Book of 1749 (may be too early) Westminster Poll Book 1749 (http://www.hamersleyfamily.com/westminsterpollbook_sm.htm)
The IGI at Family Search (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp)
The London Met Archives - see London Metropolitan Archives (http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/leisure_heritage/libraries_archives_museums_galleries/JAS/lma/lma.htm)
You might want to have a quick look at these sources and then post something on the London board.
Hope this helps - please come back to me if you need anything else.
Best wishes
Ticker
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Thanks a lot for your reply Ticker :)
So, it sounds like only heads of households were named in the earlier censuses, like here in Canada. I'll try those links you gave me and get back to you.
Take care and thanks again .. Mackenzie
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Hi MacKenzie
Have you searched for the immigration records into Canada as there are quite a lot online.
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Hi MacKenzie
Have you searched for the immigration records into Canada as there are quite a lot online.
Hi ... and thanks a lot for your reply :)
Yes ... I've been trying to find online immigration lists to see if I could find my partners Mom so we could get his grandparents and Uncles' names. Margaret was 8 in 1930 when they arrived in Canada ... we don't know where they arrive TO yet though. I don't give up though.
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Hi MacKenzie,
You may have already tried the HBC Archives, but if not, you might be able to find his place of birth from employment records. Of course it does involve a trip to Ottawa or Winnipeg. Details about HBC records:
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/index-e.html
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/genealogy/gen_text/hbca_intro.html
http://www.afhs.ab.ca/aids/talks/notes_mar98.html
As a fellow Smith researcher, you have my sympathy. Are you sure that he was born in London? He might have gone there to sign up with the HBC. From what little I know of HBC
history, the majority of their employees were Scots.
Good Luck,
Carmela (in B.C.)
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Hi Mackenzie again
Pier21 is an online page with immigration records for Canada 1928 to 1971 as they came to Quebec and Halifiax.. Try it at http://www.pier21.ca/
Ellis Island at New Yorks is worth a look as they went on to Canada. Try it at http://www.ellisisland.org/ Also there are annual directories pub in Canada which list where everybody lives and their occupation.
Hope that helps. :)
John Rowley
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>Margaret was 8 in 1930 when they arrived in Canada<
Hi M-C,
The Canadian Genealogy Centre site has a searchable database (http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020118_e.html) for Immigration Records for the years 1925 – 1935. If Margaret arrived in 1930, you might find her in the database.
Good luck,
~meg
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Carmela, 1000xlch, and ~meg,
Thanks so much for your help :) ... I've been browsing those links. Good ones! The Ellis Island database appears to only go up to 1924 so no records in there for the year (1930)
Funny how I can find no mention of Margaret Clow and her parents and brother in the Canadian sites. Oh well .. I'll keep on searching ;)
For my own family SMITH search ... my GGG Grandpa is listed in several sources like censuses as England and religeon as Church of England... plus our family has always mentioned that Grandpas side was from England (toss in some local aboriginal and Scotland (mostly Orkneys) along the way) ... Nope ... GGG Grandpa "John James Smith" was from England. I'll contact the Hudsons Bay Company Archives in Winnipeg and find out what I can about how to get records or something.
Thanks again everyone... :)
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an old one but if you are still online the HBC records are housed in Winnipeg...and he was in service for any length of time there are records of his work. His servants papers may reveal more about his date of birth and actual place of birth to be certain you are looking at the right person.
They also have mini bios of some servants, a son of John James is a sample here:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/biographical/s/smith_james1864-1871.pdf
ah, here is his file: so you had proper dates
SMITH, John James b.1791- d.1850 Westminster, London ENTERED SERVICE: 1808 1808 To Albany on Prince of Wales
children are named for both marriages...
http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/biographical/s/smith_john-james.pdf
This site says was first married to a "country wife" ( aboriginal woman, married out of the church in the ways of the country which can end at any time one chooses before the birth of a child, but for many it was self-extended beyond that restriction... :P )
Then married Nancy FAVEL Abt. 1834 in Red River District
The site says He was born 1791 in Westminster, England, where he entered the service of the Hudson's Bay Company (in the position of School Master) and sailed to Canada from Gravesend Port, and died October 15, 1850 in St Andrew's Parish District, Red River Settlement (Manitoba).
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/METISGEN/2002-09/1031985610
this site says he was born 1798 & his parents were: William Hart Smith and Hannah Woodman but you'd have to check their sources as the wrong birth date puts their research off on a bad leg...... http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/m/i/Carol-Smith-24/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0608.html
They also name a brother for him...there is an HBC file of the same name, but it doesn't state on either biothat they were brothers...so interested where they found this information...as they seem to have hung their hats on any hook found...
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Difficult to find a baptism as you don't know his father's name or where he was born. His father might be Richard, but equally likely to have been John or James or John James! There is one in Westminster in 1793 on Ancestry but that isnt a lot of use unless you have further info to confirm this.
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I looked at the kipling files for Nancy Favell, as it was the easiest choice, but just checked for john James and he is in there, so he did have a church wedding with his first wife 1825 St.John's Anglican Church, Winnipeg, Mb.
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/001/098/001098-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=5398
The records are held at the Archives of the Diocese of Rupert's Land in Winnipeg.
I suppose it has been checked before but certainly would be worth a try to see if parents are named...
Of course none are named for her as she's been given a new "white" name "MARY" :P and her real aboriginal name is likely lost to history...
His date of burial is also indexed 1850-10-17 St.Andrew's Anglican Church, Lockport, Manitoba
Odd that the later marriage would not be in there...