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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: houston on Tuesday 20 April 10 00:32 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information on George Webb born 1842
Married Elizabeth 25 when he was 24
Left England with Sarah aged 3 yrs from Plymouth London on board "The British Empire" 18/4/1850 arriving Port Adelaide St Australia 14/8/1850
Shipping lists say he was an agricultural Labourer from Wilts.
In our Australian family history book it shows them as parents to Sarah on Sarah Jane Webbs marriage cert. who was 3 when they sailed to Australia
I would appreciate any information prior to 1850 and their life in Wilts England and Elizabeths maiden line.
Thanking you
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Hi
The dates you have quoted above do not tie up
I am looking for any information on George Webb born 1842
Married Elizabeth 25 when he was 24
That means they married c 1866
Left England with Sarah aged 3 yrs from Plymouth London on board "The British Empire" 18/4/1850 arriving Port Adelaide St Australia 14/8/1850
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Hi and thank you for your quick response.
The marriage certi. of Sarah Jane webb to Alfred Talbot district of Kapunda Office of the Principal Registrat Adelaide S.A 9th Dec 1962 gives their ages as Sarah Jane Webb 20yrs (just says full) for Alfred (No. 230643)
In the presence of GEORGE WEBB Horse Dr and
ELIZABETH WEBB
The shipping list for 'THE BRITISH EMPIRE'
gave their ages etc., as I said previously
Yes I see that there is a discrepency. The wedding cert age should be 32 oh dear naughty girl or was that the horse doctors influence. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Was this the mistake you were trying to show me or some other?
regards
houston
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Hi Houston,
Welcome to RC,
If Sarah's age on marriage Cert. is correct then are you certain that the shipping records relate to your George?
To make it more difficult. there are a lot of entries on FreeBMD for Georges and Sarah Jane Webbs. but few in Wiltshire .And of course they left before the 1851 Census.
the other point I wonder about is that you say george was a labourer and in Oz an Horse Dr.Often the later profession has some relation to an earlier one. Especially where there is a connection with Horses. i.e Farriers .Ostlers blacksmiths even cab drivers.
Spring
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You have made a mistake with Georges birth year!
If he was born c 1842 he would be 8 in 1850 when arriving in Australia.
The passenger list has;
WEBB
George, 24, Labourer, born Wilts
Elizabeth, 25
Sarah, 3
That would make George born c 1826.
Elizabeth 1825
Sarah 1846-1847 ( she could be nearly 4 when arriving)
There are only 7 Sarah Webbs born Wilts 1846-1847 on FreeBMD
Did she have a second name that you know of?
And only a few George Webb marriages to an Elizabeth 1845-1850 in Wilts.
But they may have married anywhere other than Wilts.
Do you have;
Georges Australian Death Cert or Elizabeths?
Did they have any other children in Australia?
A birth cert of one of them may give Elizabeths maiden name. Then you can look for a marriage in England.
Unfortunately spending money on Certs is often the only way to track people back.
Trish :)
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I made a mistake myself ::)
I missed the Sarah Jane bit!
The only Sarah Jane WEBB birth reg in Wilts 1845-1850 is this;
June 1846, Andover, 7 47
But we have no way to prove this is her without additional Australian info.
When did she die and at what age on Cert?
Does it say age 20 or of full age on Marriage Cert?
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Hi Tricia and Springbok,
I have just noted further on in this Australian Book that there was two older sisters of Sarahs also who must have also been in Aust. (they are not on the "The British Empire" ships passenger list though )???????
They were Harriet who married George Mason 1852 and Fanny Maria who married Carl August Graetz on 11th April 1854
I am sorry I thought I was doing soo well with being armed with all I knew about them but seems I may have to try and get further information from Aust.
Seems strange that they name that ship but there are two not mentioned unless they came out seperately with someone else.??
Need Info on Sarah's husband Alfred Gerald Talbot also but will put up a new posting
Meantime will try to find out more this end.
thanks
Regards
houston
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Hi Houston
Several dates given by you do not tie in here
In your opening post you say George Webb was b 1842 and that he married wife Elizabeth when he was 24yrs old. 1842 plus 24 give a marriage around 1866
But you then say he emigrated in 1850 with wife Elizabeth and daughter Sarah Jane aged 3yrs so daughter Sarah must have been born around 1847/48
Sarah Jane married in 1862 aged 20 so was born around 1842 and must have been older than 3yrs old in 1850. If she was only born 1847/48 - she would only have been 14 or 15yrs old when she married
The wedding cert age should be 32 oh dear naughty girl or was that the horse doctors influence
You have lost me there. If Sarah married in 1862 at age 32 - that would give her a birthyear of 1830 and she would have been 20 at the time of emigration??
If the emigration date is correct then George Webb could not possibly have been born as late as 1842
You now say that the Webb's also had two other children older than Sarah which, depending on exactly how much older they were, could mean the Webb marriage was pre-1837
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Sorry for the confusion - I see where I went wrong. I was getting Sarah Jane's marriage cert. to Alfred Gerald Talbot details confused with her parents George and Elizabeth.Start again
Sara Jane Webbs Marriage Cert.
Details on Marriage cert. SARAH JANE WEBB AGE 20 surname of Father: GEORGE WEBB Horse Doctor. Mother: ELIZABETH WEBB
2 sisters: Harriet who married George Mason in 1852 probably Aust also
Fanny Maria who married Carl August Graetz in Aust.
So George and Elizabeth had 3 girls
I am still waiting for further details from Aust so till then
houston
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Hi
2 sisters: Harriet who married George Mason in 1852 probably Aust also
That marriage date is impossible.
The passenger list has;
WEBB
George, 24, Labourer, born Wilts
Elizabeth, 25
Sarah, 3
That would make George born c 1826.
Elizabeth 1825
Sarah 1846-1847 ( she could be nearly 4 when arriving)
Harriet must have been born in Australia after 1850 so could not possibly have married in 1852
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Boy this is Bizarre let alone embarrassing. That makes the details of this family tree book that has been written all wrong. Deary me - Oh well best I wait for further info from Australia -meantime
Thanks
houston
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Hi There
To date I have had no reply from the Australian connections so have to rely on the only information I have which is as follows:
GEORGE AND ELIZABETH WEBB;
Daughter Sara Jane Webb.
All three left England on the 18/4/1850 on "THE BRITISH EMPIRE" arriving 14/8/1850 in Sth Australia
Ships list records George as aged 24 Agricultural Labourer Wilts. England.
Elizabeth as aged 25
Sarah Jane as aged 3
I guess what I require is a marriage certificate for George and Elizabeth to establish Elizabeths maiden name first and then census records for them.
Any help gratefully accepted.
Regards
houston.
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From replies above
Do you have;
Georges Australian Death Cert or Elizabeths?
Did they have any other children in Australia?
A birth cert of one of them may give Elizabeths maiden name. Then you can look for a marriage in England.
If daughter Sarah Jane was 20 when she married in 1862 we are looking at a birthyear of 1842 which does not tie in with the passenger list entry showing her as 3yrs old.
Her sisters Harriet & Fanny Maria must have been born in Australia as they are not shown on the passenger list
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Yes I see that and have had a search myself for records in Australia - maybe if I try Rootschat Australia there maybe someone in South Australia that can find those things
Will give it a go
Regards houston
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Hi Houston,
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1850BritishEmpire.htm
I am not noting these births in SA Records.
Could be interest ing to note that a George WEBB and Elizabeth BURCHALL are having children in SA at the right time (just not seeing the two you mention.)
George WEBB = Elizabeth BURCHALL Dec 1/4 1854 1845 Calne 8 505
Still Looking
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi again Houston,
I am sorry but on further searching this IS NOT your family.
There daughter Sarah Ann WEBB = Isaac HEMPSTER 5 Jun 1869 Registry Office Adelaide. Dist Ade 79 584. She appears to have been born Mar 1/4 1847 Calne
Your Sarah Jane WEBB = Alfred TALBOT 9 Dec 1862 in Kapunda. She was aged 20
I note also a marriage in North Adelaide for Harriet a minor in 1857 (James BERRIDGE)
Kris :)
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Here is Fanny's marriage
GIRTZ August 24 single father not recorded = WEBB Fanny Maria 17 father unrecorded 11 Apr 1854 Res of Rev W Oldham Kapunda Dist Ade Symbol AV 18 178
entry in BISA
GRAETZ Carl Augt par J. Geo and 1st wife born 23 Feb 1835 Bentschen, Posen, Prussia died 10. Jan 1875 buried Callington SA arrived 1839 aboard the CATHARINA occupation Farmer, Carter residence Klemzig, Siegersdorf, Strathalbyn, Murray Bridge religion Lutheran
married 1854 Kapunda SA Fanny Maria nee WEBB who was born 30 Dec 1838 and died7 Jan 1911
children Anny Elis 1854-1855, Mary Ann FLEET 1856-1910, Annie Eliz EDWARDS, LOVELAND 1858-1949, Chas Henry 1862-1941, Wm Augt 1865, Sarah Jane HAMMOND 1869-1954, Fanny Maria PEPPER 1872-1943
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They all appear to be around Kapunda South Australia from my information.
Sarah Jane is my grandmother Marion Blanche (McLeod) nee Talbot's Mother so my GGrandmother. My grandmother was the only one of the Talbot family that left Australia and came to NZ
The familyhistory book says Sarah Jane died 1886
The parents of Sarah Jane - George and Elizabeth Webb Ag Labourer from Wilts
The only English connection I saw in a fleeting search of Elizabeth Webb is Burchall also so maybe that is correct but hard to confirm from here in NZ
Harriet and Fanny Maria born Australia (not on shipping records)were 2 other children of George and Elizabeth Sarah's siblings
your expertise is very welcome
regards
houston
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Wow thats amazing - wonder how come I didnt find all that stuff - inexperience no doubt
Now at least feel I am getting somewhere
regards
houston
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aha and a BISA entry for Harriet - and the reason I could not spot the marriage ;)
MASON George parents Joseph and Ann born 1831 Thaxted Ess ENG died 23 Nov 1909 buried Happy Valley SA arrived 1855 NORMAN 0ccupation Farmer, Storekeeper, Postmaster residence O'Halloran Hill, Happy Valley. Religion Congregational
married 25 Dec 1854 Thaxted Ess ENC Harriet nee WEBB father Geo born about 1833 Ess ENC died 23 Jul 1910
children Joseph Webb 1856-1934, Gee Webb 1857-1947, Harriet Mary BEARE 1858-1940, John Wm 1860-c1920, Chas Henry 1861-1950, Linda, Martha Webb JOHNSON 1862-1899, Richard Poole 1864-1956, Sarah Ann BEARE 1865-1900, Albert 1867-1940, Adelaide Sophia 1868-1956, Sydney 1870-1931, Victoria 1871-1872, Victoria Maria MILLS 1873-1956, Herbert Ernest 1876-1877
Cheers Kris :)
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Yes clearly your book is wrong Houston :'(
HO107/328/24 Folio 44 Page 9
New Beggin
Thaxted
Essex
WEBB George 40 Y Fish Monger
WEBB Martha 35 Y
WEBB Betsey 15 Y
WEBB Maryann 13 Y
WEBB Eliza 11 Y
WEBB Harriott 8 Y
WEBB Sarah 6 Y
WEBB Martha 4 Y
WEBB Maria 2 Y
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks soooooooooooooo much for all that Kris - Beautiful, Beautiful work
Is the last post a census record? - and what does the Y stand for?
Also how does that shipping list of the "British Empire" compare if wife is Elizabeth???
Cheers
houston
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The Masons arrival
http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/australia/norman1855.htm
No luck with the arrivals of the others into SA - may have entered via another state. No marriages or deaths either to these siblings from 1841. No death for Martha and as to George nothing certain. unfortunately the BISA does not mention Sarah's arrival.
BISA
TALBOT Alfred born about 1833 Norwich Norfolk ENG died 25 Jan 1925 buried Curramulka SA arived 1845 aboard the DUKE OF BEDFORD occupation Farmer residence Hurtle Vale, Curramulka rel: Church of Christ
married 1862 Sarah Jane nee WEBB father Geo
children Henry Wm 1871, Albt Geo 1871, Ed Jas 1871, Arthur Alcorn 1884-1972, 10 others
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Houston,
You have to get over the passenger list for the BRITISH EMPIRE. That information you have been given is incorrect. That IS NOT your families arrival. I gave you the marriage of that couples daughter Sarah Ann to Isaac HEMPSTER on 1869 in Adelaide. IT IS NOT YOUR SARAH. Your Sarah's family are from Essex. Sorry that entry is the 1841 census.
Cheers Kris :)
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Ok. Kris thanks for that - I shall put it away - what a shame as a lot off work for nothing but then no computers then
God Bless
houston
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Yes Houston,
Unfortunately mistakes are easily made. Somebody found that arrival for a Sarah with a father George and decided it was the correct family. That family had quite a few children in SA. I still do not have your families arrival nor do I see them in 1851. Looking at Civil registration entries the District is Dunmow. I see Harriet and George MASON's marriage and possible marriages for some of the family. The entire family may not have emigrated.
Cheers Kris :)
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Excellent work Kris :) ;D
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George WEBB = Martha CHAPMAN 3 Apr 1824 in Great Bardfield, Essex
First 4 baptisms in Gread Bardfield
James 24 Aug 1824
Elizabeth 30 Apr 1826
Mary Ann 4 May 1828
Eliza 21 Mar 1830
The rest possibly in Thaxted
Rearmed and still found no sign of them in 1851. Further examination revealed that the 1851 returns for the Drumnow district including Thaxted and Great Bardfield are among the missing so alas we do not know who was still about in 1851 to try to narrow down the immigration.
Cheers Kris :)
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I see that it is easier for you to build up a picture of movements because of your amazing experience and knowing where to look and what happened during these years.
Yes they did have big families in Aust, 13 and then those having 10-13 have loaded my tree with most details of the children of the next gererations i.e My grandmother and her siblings in Aust and my father and mine out here, but its just filling in these other gaps and who and what are their origins in UK. ( There hasnt ever been any communication from Aust other than the Book which cant be taken as fact now)
I've spent weeks on this and havent got anywhere so it is really wonderful to be able to pass on this infomation to grand-children in the future
Kind regards
houston
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Hi Kris
This couple emigrated in 1850 so the 1854 marriage cannot be theirs
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Hi Kris
This couple emigrated in 1850 so the 1854 marriage cannot be theirs
I am sorry Carole you have completely lost me :-\
Who are you talking about?
What marriage cannot be theirs?
To my knowledge of this thread the only 1850 immigration we had turned out not to be Houston's family. The two 1854 marriages I noted were Houston's family Fanny in 1854 in SA and Harriet in 1854 in Thaxted. Rather confused as to what these marriages have to do with the 1850 immigration.
Kris
Oops quite right Carole (though your statement could have made it a bit clearer) - I see I entered the numbers round the wrong way re the marriage of George WEBB and Elizabeth BURCHALL. I wasn't thinking of that one as I knew it was 1845. The marriage of course took place in 1845 - not 1854 - It is not Houston's family but I have now corrected that entry.
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Hi Kris
Sorry - I hadn't seen all the other info on the previous page. I have'nt had any other notifications except your last one so was still working from the original post of an 1850 emigration
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Dear Kris and Carroll
Thanks so much for your work - its much appreciated - should you come up with ships arrival please advise
Regards houston
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Hi Houston,
I am also looking for info on the same family - Alfred Gerald Talbot and Sarah Jane Webb are my great grandparents. Their son Albert George is my great grandfather. I think I know the book you are using - from memory a light brown/beige colour?
I'm just starting out with all this.
I'm in Australia, love to hear from you!
PohKel
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Hi there
You are right 'The History and Family Tree of Alfred Gerald Talbot and his descendants' by Phoebe Quick - you will be a bit younger than I as Marion Blanche Talbot was my grandmother, on my fathers side - see seventh child in the book.
I am in NZ and am dissappointed that none of the Australian side seem to have any history on her or George though I have only had occassion to ask two - have you asked any of your oldies.
Not been at this long myself but this is a great site. As soon as I can work out how to send you a Personal Message I will
Cheers
Houston
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sorry I ommitted to include email address - if you click on little green scroll on left of my posting you should be able to send me an email
houston
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Hi PohKel,
A Big Welcome to RootsChat ;D
Lovely you have made a contact.
As a new member you will need to make a couple more postings before our PM system is fully functional to you. Just reply here a couple of times and you will then be able to send Houston a PM (personal message) with you email address. We do not permit the posting of personal email addresses on the prublic boards.
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi and thanks for the welcome.
Houston, my mum has the book and I'm hoping to get it on Saturday. I have other bits and pieces which I will pass on when I can PM you.
Kirstin
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...and sorry, I meant to say in my first post that Alfred Gerald Talbot and Sarah Jane Webb are my great, great grandparents.
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Hi PohKel
Thanks for that - I will look forward to comparing what I already have.
houston