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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Aussie Pom on Saturday 17 April 10 16:41 BST (UK)
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Hi
I can't find the following births and wonder if they were actually ever recorded???
Charles William WILES Born 13 June 1876 Percydale, Victoria. Father James WILES & mother Maria CARR
(*)
I beleive James WILES (father of Charles) may be the son of Griffen Fletcher WILES (born 1830) & Mary Ann WHITE. I found an entry for a death in 1915 for James. Griffen & Mary had other children born in 1850-1860, so i think James may have been born at the time, but again i can't find a birth entry for him.
These people lived in the Clunes/Percydale/Ballarat areas and were gold miners.
Any ideas and help much appreciated.
Thanks
Details of possible living person removed for privacy and security reasons
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I can't find the following births and wonder if they were actually ever recorded???
Charles William WILES Born 13 June 1876 Percydale, Victoria. Father James WILES & mother Maria CARR
(*)
He's there just an error with his name registration...
WILDS Charles William b. 1876 PERC #11198
Father: James
Mother: Maria CARR
Unable to help you with 1935 as birth indexes after 1920 are not available due to privacy laws.
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Have you seen the digitsed will for Griffen Fletcher WILES?
He went into hotel business.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=54
Leanne
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there are a couple of service documents on www.naa.gov.au for Charles William, one is digitised and the other is not.
The undigisted record gives Charles D.O.B as 12th June 1876 confirming previous replies
.
Leanne
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Griffen is buried at Clunes apparently
Griffin Fletcher Wiles, 52, b abt 1830, died 18 May 1882, cemetery Clunes
There is some more info available re GFW - marriage, birthplace, UK census entries as well as Aus electoral roll entries for another, later GFW. Am happy to post but you may already have this. Also some elctoral roll entries for James Flethcher WILES.
Judith
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Hi
No other WILE's at CLUNES Cem. :(
Sue
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Actually there are three WILE's burials at Clunes:
WILES Margaret 26 Oct 1881 1 Day - possibly a grandaughter
WILES Griffin Fletcher 21 May 1882 52 - this is the father, already noted by Judith
WILES Mary Ann 5 May 1910 80 - I'm betting this is mother :)
I'll check the death indexes for the matching deaths...
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Deaths from index to match burials above:
WILES Margt age 1day d. 1881 CLUNES #9924
Father: Jas
Mother: Margt MORGAN
WILES Griffin Fletcher age 52yrs d. 1882 CLUNES #4837
Father: James
Mother: Rebecca FLETCHER
WILES Mary Ann age 80yrs d. 1910 ESDON #5183
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown UNKNOWN
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I found an entry for a death in 1915 for James.AUSSIE POM
James is buried at BALLARAT NEW CEMETERY.
James WILES aged 64. Mechanic Loc. Pres. 11 39. Interred 14/4/1914. Of 104 Armstrong St. South Ballarat.
Sue
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Actually there are three WILE's burials at Clunes: MERLIN
Mmm.
My registry info. must be incomplete :(
Sue
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Hi
Thanks v much everyone for your help!!! :) :)
I am trying to find the connection between Charles William WILES b 1876 Percydale, Vic and Griffen Fletcher WILES b 1830 England resided Clunes, Vic. A few kms apart in the gold fields near Ballarat.
Griffen's father was called James (and mother Rebecca FLETCHER). Charles's parents are James WILES (miner) and Maria CARR. (I have a copy of the marriage cert between Charles William WILES and Rose RODWELL in 1900.)
Griffen came over between 1851 (as found in the UK census) and 1857 (when his daughter Jane was born). He built and ran the Club Hotel in Clunes. Griffen had a son called James, but i think he was James Fletcher Wiles who was married to Margaret MORGAN, so that doesn't work, unless they had a son called James? James and Margaret had children born at the start of the 1880's, so that is a possible option.
In the electoral roles for Ballarat, there is a James who resided at 106 Armstrong St in 1909 & 1914. Then there is James and Margaret at 205 Eyre St & 4 Campbells Cres. So two James Wiles. But i am getting confused about which one died in 1915. I thought i found a death entry (reg 3671) for James WILES (Father Griffen Fletcher & mother Mary Ann), but i just read on my replies there is a James WILES buried at Ballarat Cem who died in 1915 who resided at 104 Armstrong St....Did two James WILES die in 1915?
I also found an entry for a James WILES - black lead miner, North Grant in Buninyong, in 1856, which is 11kms South of Ballarat on the electoral roles.
Any ideas!?
Many thanks :)
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but i think he was James Fletcher Wiles who was married to Margaret MORGAN, so that doesn't work, unless they had a son called James?
No, actually it was James WILES who was married to Margaret MORGAN & they had a son named James Fletcher WILES.
Here is his birth:
WILES James Fletcher b. 1883 CLUNES #15289
Event: B
Father: James
Mother: Margaret MORGAN
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Not much help here, I'm afraid but you may not have seen these two snippets from the NLA digi newspapers.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y
July 1876
Rosa E WILES daughter of G F and M A WILES of the Club Hotel Clunes married to James J MARTIN of Cashel, Ireland
May 1882
Death notice for GFW
The Club Hotel had another licensee by 1884 so Mary Ann may have sold it - or at least not been the licencee.
Also I note in the will for GFW that there are two sons mentioned - James and Edwin; no mention of the daughter Rosa.
The marriage certificate for James and Margaret MORGAN should give his father's details. ???
I assume you have Mary Ann's birth and parents?
Cheers, Judith
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There is another news item in The Argus, Friday 19 May 1882 about the death of GFW stating that he had been in a resident of Clunes for 25 years.
A short description of the funeral on Monday 22 May
Judith
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Also I note in the will for GFW that there are two sons mentioned - James and Edwin; JUDITH
A burial at TERRAPPEE may be EDWIN
WILES, EDWIN .Age 91. Died 30/7/1947
Rosa E WILES daughter of G F and M A WILES of the Club Hotel Clunes married to James J MARTIN of Cashel, Ireland
May 1882JUDITH
Hope this is not the same JAMES at CLUNES CEMETERY.
MARTIN, JAMES J. Died 2/7/1883
Sue
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Deaths
WILES Edwin
Father Wiles James Fletcher Mother Mary Ann WHITE
At Boort 91 years 1947 Reg#20086
MARTIN James Joseph
Father Michael Mother Johanna SHELLA
38 years at Horsham 1883 Reg#8464
Cando
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According to the NLA notice the father of James J MARTIN who married Rosa WILES is shown as 'the late M J Martin, merchant of Cashel City, Ireland' The service was conducted by an Anglican minister and a Catholic priest.
Judith
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Hi and many thanks again for your help :)
Now i would REALLY LOVE to find something for James WILES and Maria CARR.
(Parents of Charles William WILES born 1876 in Percydale, Entry is under WILDS).
I found an Elizabeth CARR who married a George FACEY in 1891 in Percydale. Perhaps this Elizabeth was related to Maria??
When Charles got married to Rose RODWELL in 1900's, he was living in Korumburra, Vic. His son was born in Jumbunna, Vic.
I have done all the searches i can possibly think of to find any births/marriage/death entries for James WILES and Maria WILES (Nee CARR) and have found NOTHING!!!! :( :(
I haven't checked under WYLES, or WHILES, which are other alternatives (or even WILDS). It would be better if BMD VIC had soundex!
Can anyone help??!!
Thanks
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Looks like Maria died the same year as Charles was born, perhaps during or after childbirth?
WILDS Maria age 18yrs d. 1876 CAST #6721
Father: Carr Charles
Mother: Jane BARNETT
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James & Maria's Marriage:
WILDS James, born PORTSMOUTH married CARR Maria, born SANDHURST 1876 #258
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Maria's Birth:
CARR Maria b. 1857 SANDHURST #16985
Father: Charles
Mother: Jane BARNETT
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Hi
Wow, that is amazing!! I spent HOURS of trawling through super slow satelitte broadband web pages, looking under the name of WILES.
So it looks like the surname may have really been WILDS and not WILES, as it is today. Possibly no relation at all to the WILES family Clunes then.
Thanks again, I now have something to follow up on and not a dead end any more!!
:) :)
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Maria's parents marriage:
CARR Charles m. BARNETT Emma Jane 1856 #3481
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Maria's Siblings - there is a sister named Elizabeth.
CARR Charlotte b. 1859 SANDHURST #15989
CARR Sarah Jane b. 1861 SANDHURST #22859
CARR Mary Ann b. 1863 BARK #19455
CARR Elizabeth b. 1869 AVOCA #174
CARR Agnes b. 1871 PERC #11262
Parents to all above: Charles CARR & Jane BARNETT
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Does it say on the marriage cetificate of Charles William WILES and Rose RODWELL whether Charles's father James was living or deceased in 1900?
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FreeBMD shows the birth of a James WILES Jun qr 1838 registered Portsea Isalnd (Portsmouth), and onther James WILES reg Mar qr 1871 at Portsea - obviously not your chap.
Another website gives a ref for a James WILES, parents Griffin Fletcher WILES and Mary Ann WILES registered in Middlesex. Unfortunately my subscription does not allow me access to any further info for this record but maybe someone else.........?
Cheers, Judith
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Hi All,
Another website gives a ref for a James WILES, parents Griffin Fletcher WILES and Mary Ann WILES registered in Middlesex. Unfortunately my subscription does not allow me access to any further info for this record but maybe someone else.........?JUDITH
Well, the parental marriage was in 1850 at St Pancras .... on Christmas Day- according to IGI -(it was free then I believe) (vol 1 pg 355 free bmd confirms)
One hopes that the contributor to the site which Judith mentions has good creditial information that JAMES was the son of this couple.
Sue
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Thanks again :)
I think it is pretty clear now that the surname was changed by Charles William. He was born a WILDS and his parents were both WILDS. However, at some point in time, he has changed it. On the marriage certificate in 1900 he is clearly shown as WILES and his father as James WILES. From the information everyone has given me on here, i no longer think there is any connection to Griffin Fletcher WILES.
I note your comment, Merlin about if his father James was alive at the time, but it does not say deceased. I checked the other marriages on the same page and none of the other parents are marked as deceased. Some must have been, as some of the people getting married were in their late 60's.
I would like to thank you all for your wonderful input in helping me get this far. I have used this webpage on previous occasions when i have hit a brick wall or going around in circles and everyone is so helpful!
Kind regards
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Well,
Maybe I have not got this straight, and happy to be corrected but it looks this way to me.
James Wiles and Rebecca Fletcher had a son-
GRIFFEN FLETCHER WLES who married mARY ANN WHITE 1850 eng.
They had 2 sons-
JAMES WILES (birthdate unk, but probaly 1850/ 1855)) .and EDWIN WILES.(birhdate unk.)
JAMES WILES married first MARIA CARR in 1876 who died in 1876 the same year as the couples child was born named CHARLES WILLIAM WILES.
JAMES WILES then married MARGARET MORGAN (date unk) and had a child names JAMES FLETCHER WILES in 1883.
CHARLES WILES became a miner. He married ROSA RODWELL in 1900.
His father was not deceased because he died in 1915 in Ballarat.
Sue
PS, I think the name changes are not significant.
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JAMES WILES then married MARGARET MORGAN (date unk) and had a child names JAMES FLETCHER WILES in 1883
Here's a marriage that could possibly fit :-\
WILLS James, born London m. MORGAN Margaret, 1876 #3486
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Hi
At the BALLARAT CEMETERY there is a strong possibility for the Burial of MARGARET WILES.
This is in the old Cemetery
WILES, MARGARET. Aged 64. Wife died 16/7/1912. Location CN 17 .4
This is a very different location from JAMES WILES (see above)
BUT
Within the same location are a number of people with the surname MORGAN.
RICHARD
MARY
ELISHBA
Sue
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Above death from indexes:
WILES Margt age 64yrs d. BALLT 1912 #8334
Father: Morgan Richd Evan
Mother: Maria PHILLIPS
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Ah Yes,
Then we have it.
Same location as MARGARET WILES as mentioned.
MORGAN, RICHARD. aged 56 died 1877. Publican.
MORGAN ,MARIA aged 61 died 1871 Wife.
MORGAN MARIA, Age 71 died 1881, Widow
EDIT to correct
Sue
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Hi
Thanks for the additional info.....
BUT how do i know/prove that James WILES is the same James WILDS?
So what you are saying is that James WILDS married first Maria CARR (who died in 1876) and then married Margaret MORGAN as James WILES? Why would this name change happen?
I have the birth certificate for Charles William WILDS which states his father, James WILDS was born in Portsmouth England in about 1847. Fathers occupation miner. Mother Maria CARR born Castlemaine Vic.
Griffin Fletcher WILES (father of a James WILES who married Margaret Morgan) was born in St Neots, Huntingdon. This is nowhere near Portsmouth.
I am now thinking i may need to get the marriage cert for James WILDS and Maria CARR to clarify his parents names?
Kind regards
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Census 1841 HO107/660/1
Living at Goswell Street, St James, Clerkenwell
SQUIRE George 35years Carpenter Not born County
SQUIRE Rebecca 29 years Not born County
WILES Griffin 13 years Not born County
WILES Frances 10 years Not born County
and others.
This death certificate supports the mother's name.
WILES Griffin Fletcher
Father James Mother Rebecca FLETCHER
52 years at Clunes 1882 Reg#4837
and this supports the father's name
Married at St Pancras Church, St Pancras on 25 Dec 1850
WILES Griffin Fletcher, Minor, Batchelor, Carpenter, Living at Aldenham Street. Father James WILES Dead.
WHITE Mary Ann, Minor, Spinster, No occupation, Living at Aldenham Street. Father John WHITE Dead.
Marriages Dec quarter 1850
WHITE Mary Ann St Pancras 1/355
WILES Griffin Fletcher St Pancras 1/355
Census 1851 HO107/1518/221/13
Living at 6 Southampton Rd, Clerkenwell, St James, Middlesex
WILLCOCKS Frederick Head Married 31 years Wait b. Exeter
WILLCOCKS Eliza Wife 40 years Laundress B. Bath
WILES Griffin Son in law Married 21 years Carpenter B. St Neofs Huntingdonshire Not Hungary as transcribed ::) ::)
WILES Mary Daughter Married 21 years Milliner B. Bath
A couple of possible births
Births Dec 1851
WILES Rosa Eliza Islington 3/322
Births Mar quarter 1853
WILES James Hendon 3a/85
I can't see a birth for Edwin on freebdm but born c1856 by his death reg and he states he was born Clunes on his marriage in 1883.
Death
WILES Edwin
Father Wiles James Fletcher Mother Mary Ann WHITE
At Boort 91 years 1947 Reg#20086
They were here by 1857.
Birth
WILES Jane
Father Griffen Mother Mary Ann WHITE
At Ballarat 1857 Reg#14910
Death
WILES Jane
Father Griffin Mother Maryann
2 years Born Ballarat 1860 Reg#1633
Marriages
WILES Edwin born Clunes
MCCULLOUGH Sarah Jane
1883 Reg#72
Marriage
WILES Rosa Eliza
MARTIN James Joseph
1876 Reg# 2920
Births to James Joseph MARTIN and Rose Eliza WILES
MARTIN Griffin Fletcher Wiles 1877 Clunes Reg#14250
MARTIN Augustine Shelly Michael 1877 Clunes Reg#14251
MARTIN Rose Violet Portland 1878 Portland Reg#24818
MARTIN Agnes Irene 1880 Clunes Reg#21427
MARTIN Eileen Hope 1882 Clunes Reg#8088
MARTIN James Joseph 1884 Reg#1551
WILLS James, born London m. MORGAN Margaret, 1876 #3486
Merlin
No births until 1881 for a James W* and Margaret MORGAN
Births to James and Margaret MORGAN to 1888
WILES Margaret 1881 Clunes Reg#22297
WILES Ruby Ella 1882 Clunes reg#14896
WILES James Fletcher 1883 Clunes Reg#15289
WILES Grace 1885 Clunes Reg#8827
WILES Stella Irene 1887 Ballarat Reg#25823
Was all this work was in vain....I must post the following WILDS info
Births
WILDS George
Father James Mother Annie KEMP
At Avoca 1855 Reg#2228
WILDS Harriet [Harriet marries in 1880
Father James Mother Anne KEMP
At Cockrans 1858 Reg#13969
and then of course your man of interest
WILDS Charles William
Father James Mother Maria CARR
At PERC 1876 Reg#11198
Would a marriage AND a birth AND a death would have the surname mistranscribed. [/b]
Cando
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Here is the marriage of the parents of the children born in the 1850's in Victoria.
Marriages Mar qtr 1852
KEMP Ann Droxford 2c/133
WILDS James Droxford 2c/133
District Droxford is in Hampshire.
Cando
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Perhaps the parents of children b. 1850's in Victoria.
WILDS Annie
Parents unknown
78 years at Moonambel 1897 Reg#6366
WILDS James
Father Wilds Benjamin Mother Lucy KEMP
79 years Talbot 1896 Reg#11605
Cando
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Edit. Sorry about this post. Brilliant sunshine out the window and then 2 mighty claps of thiunder, a huge black cloud and then lightning etc so just sent this and then and switched off with no time to have read Cando's post.
Have deleted as info the same as Cando's.
Opps big thunderstorm - will get back to this ;D
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Dec qr 1862 Edwin James WILES reg Pancras 1b 90
Judith
Griffin and Mary Ann were in Australia by 1857, birth of Jane at Ballarat.
Cheers
Cassie
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Have found a baptism of Edwin
Edwin WILES
b 18 Dec 1853
bap. 26 Feb 1865
St John's COE Creswick
Reg no CRES1/P45
father Griffin (Occ. Carpenter)
mother Mary
Abode Clunes
Cheers Donna
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Good find....born before civil reg.
Cheers
Cando
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Also have the baptisms of 5 children of James Wiles & Margaret if you want them posted let me know.
Donna
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Baptism at St Matthias, Stoke Newington, Middlesex
No 207 Oct 16 1853
WILES James
Parents Griffin Fletcher [Carpenter] and Mary Ann of Aldenham Street.
John G McLeod, Curate
Cando
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Another record for Charles -
WILDS, Charles William.
Hospital record 6 Aug 1891 At Moonambel Born Percydale
Age 15 Religion Church of England
Maryborough and District Hospital Admissions Register 1855-1907.
Cando
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Well...what a muddle it all seems!!
I am still of the opinion that James WILDS and James WILES are two people and not the same person.
It would seem James WILES (Son of Griffen Fletcher) was born a bit later in possibly in 1853 in London. Whereas I beleive James WILDS was born in Portsmouth in about 1847. (on his son's birth cert in 1876, it states he is 27 and born Portsmouth).
Cando - I am very interested in that marriage you found in Droxford (KEMP & WILDS) This is the same county as Portsmouth, but 1852 is after the birth of James WILDS in 1847. I located a James WILES at Brighton court, Sussex, which isn't far from Portsmouth with a criminal conviction. But it doesn't state his age, other than it was in 1857. I couldnt' find any WILDS in the 1841 census in Portsmouth. Perhaps it isn't a popular name? or is mispelt heaps. I don't think many of the OPR's are available to search online from that area.
I am also very interested in that hospital admission for Charles William WILDS at Moonambel. His mother was buried at Moonambel in 1876. Interesting he was still calling himself WILDS. He was married in 1900 as a WILES.
I think the only way to solve this mystery is to buy the marriage cert for WILDS and CARR...!!!!
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I am still of the opinion that James WILDS and James WILES are two people and not the same person.
I agree.....
Cando - I am very interested in that marriage you found in Droxford (KEMP & WILDS) This is the same county as Portsmouth, but 1852 is after the birth of James WILDS in 1847.
Have you considered he may have been a child of a former marriage or perhaps illegitimate
Births Dec 1847
KEMP James Alton 7/18
Births Sep 1848
KEMP James Alton 7/16
Oh I had better be off and get the evening meal before my imagination really runs away :P
Cando
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Well i decided to just put us all out of our misery and purchased the certificate.
I am happy to announce that firstly, James WILDS is not James WILES and they are two separate people and secondly, his parents were......James WILDS and Ann KEMP!!!...so they must have come over from the UK at some point.
The marriage cert should be attached, if i have managed to upload it ok.
Many thanks for everyone's input. It would seem the WILDS were from Moonambel area. Well done to Cando for finding the two death enteries for Annie WILDS and James WILDS.
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Marriage cert for James WILDS and Maria CARR
Moderator Comment: Image Removed - Only a small portion of the image may be displayed for help deciphering handwriting
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Well you have the marriage of his parents and James was obviously born before the marriage ie if he was born c1847.
Reply# unknown ;D
Births
WILDS George
Father James Mother Annie KEMP
At Avoca 1855 Reg#2228
WILDS Harriet [Harriet marries in 1880
Father James Mother Anne KEMP
At Cockrans 1858 Reg#13969
Oh AP I am disappointed it isn't the WILE family at Clunes....found so much more info that I hadn't posted...ah well perhaps someone may be interested one day.
AP either of the above birth certs should give you more information on father James and mother Anne KEMP.
Cheers
Cando
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I saved the marriage cert.
Marriage
14th Feb 1876 at Percydale.
James WILDS, Batchelor, Born Portsmouth, England, Miner, 29 years,Resident at Moonabel, Father James WILDS, Miner, Mother Ann KEMP.
Maria CARR, Spinster, Born Sandhurst, Vic, 18 years, Resident at Percydale, Father Charles CARR, Miner, Mother Jane BARNETT.
Married according to the rites of the Wesleyan Church.
Cando
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Hi All,
Been off the air for 24 hrs away from the forum and what an amazing amount of information has come to light in that time.
Now, that is what I call a good chase.
Like you Cando, I have more WILES information not posted, but it can be kept for another day when it may have more relevance.
How easy it is to become convinced of "facts" based on not- quite- complete information!
There you go ;D ;D
Sue
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According to FreeBMD there is no James WILDS birth registered in Hampshire from Sep 1837 to Dec 1850, however there is this James KEMP
1841 James KEMP reg Droxford,
IGI shows
James KEMP baptised 31 Jan 1841 at Droxford with no father listed only mother Ann KEMP
I know the birthdate doesn't fit with his age at marriage, however, I see he was 11 years older than Maria by the certificate. Perhaps he put his age down to be closer to hers??
And look - have just found him in 1851 - naughty man DID put his age down
Living in Soberton, Hampshire
James Wilds 33, Farm labourer, b Soberton
Ann Wilds 30 wife, b Soberton
Clara Wilds 1 dau b Soberton
James Kemp 10 wife's child, b Droxford
Soberton and Droxford are only a mile or so apart.
Can't see them in 1861 which is hardly surprising as they were in Avoca Vic in 1855
Cheers, Judith
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Victorian census entry for 1856
James WILDS, Burnt Creek, miner with a miner's right, Subdistrict: Moliagul
Moliagul is 5 miles from Cochranes Creek which is similar to the name of the place of birth of Harriett in 1858, so this may well be the father - or not ::)
Judith
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Hi All,
Here is a burial which may be of interest.
MOONAMBEL CEMETERY
WILDS, ANNIE. Aged 77. Died 12/6./1897.
Moonambel appears to be in the vicinity of Moliagul :)
Sue
PS One Maria WYLDS is also there. ??
Sue
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Thanks for all the interesting information. I did come across the Moonambel cemetery too.
Just to clarify something, it would seem according to the 1851 census, that James WILDS (jnr) was illegitimite? If the head of the family (James WILDS snr) states James, aged 10, is his 'wife's child' and that there is no father listed on the FreeBMD search which has his birth recorded as KEMP (Mother's maiden name).
So i probably won't know who the real father is then?
Charlotte
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No, I don't think you will be able to find the father's name :( You could apply to UK for his birth certificate but it may not give you any further information.
This MAY be Anne's baptism, according to the census entry her birth would be about 1821, and according to the death information she was born about 1820. Also the name is different. However she may have been baptised as a child rather than as a baby.
Hannah KEMP Christening: 05 MAR 1826 Soberton, Southampton, Hampshire, England, parents;
James Kemp and Elizabeth
Edit to add:
Have just found them in 1841, living in the 'tything of Easthoe', Soberton, all born in Hampshire
James Kemp 65 ag labourer
Elizabeth Kemp 55
John Kemp 25 ag labourer
Sarah Kemp 30
Ann Kemp 20
James Kemp 15 ag labourer
George Kemp 12
Harriet Kemp 9
Martha Kemp 7
James Kemp 6 Mo
Unfortunately the 1841 census does not show relationships, but it seems that Ann is living with her parents with baby James.
Cheers,
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Hi, I just stumbled upon this forum since renewing my interest in family history research, and thought the following might be of some interest to some of you.
I am descended from James Wilds. My late grandmother's grandmother was Harriet Wilds, daughter of James Wilds & Ann(i)e Kemp. In the late 70s, my grandmother told us that one of her ancestors, a Wilds, was a convict, transported to Australia for stealing. My sister had written the name down into her school assignment, but this has since been lost. All I remember was that the name started with a "J". Years later, I searched indexes and found the connection to James Wilds and Anne Kemp but got no further. For some reason I thought the convict ancestor was John, not James, so I didn't think that I had found the convict ancestor.
Anyway, I just conducted another search on convictions in England which resulted in transportation and found a John Wilds who was transported to Australia in 1838 for pickpocketing (10 year sentence). He was 21 years of age. The James Wilds who died in Talbot in 1896 at age 79 would have been born around the same time (~1817) as John Wilds, so there is a possibility that they are one and the same. John might have changed his name to James, perhaps to get away from his convict past. If James Wilds Jr was born around 1847/1848, that is around the time John/James would have completed his 10 year term. One wonders if he had fathered the child while he was a convict and didn't want to later confess to this? (speculation, I know...)
Further information for those not local...Cochranes Creek is the area around Bealiba and is not far from Molliagul. Its west of Bealiba, between Logan and Molliagul.
I hope this helps some of you. I appreciate the information you all have provided.
cheers,
Darren
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Hi Darren :)
Welcome to rootschat ;D
I am sure AussiePom will be delighted with your information. I haven't re-read the thread but remember spending a bit of time researching. Pleased we were able to give some useful information.
Don't hesitate to ask if you think we can help you in anyway. Lots of keen and knowledgeable people always willing to help others with their research.
Cheers :)
Cando
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Thanks, Cando :)
I re-read the thread and saw the mention that James Jr was born in Portsmouth, England, so that explains him having a different father.
Noted that James Sr's wife and mother were both Kemps. Coincidence?
Just some further details, for anyone reading who might be interested.
Harriet Elizabeth Wilds married Samuel Collins and had daughter Lily (need to check if there were others). Lily married John Harvey and they had 7 children (one still alive, in her 80s), including my grandmother. They lived at Lamplough until their later years. John was a very private man, having come to Australia as a boy with his mother and brother to get away from an abusive father...his mother died though and he was put into an orphanage at Amphitheatre. My family have a photo of Lily (my great-grandmother) taken in the 1940s. Anyone needing more details, please let me know.
Regards,
Darren
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Harriet Elizabeth Wilds married Samuel Collins and had daughter Lily (need to check if there were others).
OzDazz
WILDS Harriet Elizabeth born Bealiba
COLLINS Samuel born Adelaide
1880 Reg#3498
Births
COLLINS Ernest George
Father Samuel Mother Harriett Elizabeth WILDS
At Moonabel 1881 Reg#18111
COLLINS Annie Mary
Father Samuel Mother Harriet Elizabeth WILDS
At Moonabel 1881 Reg#25199
COLLINS Lilly
Father Samuel Mother Elizabeth WILDS
At Moonabel 1885 Reg#19856
COLLINS William James
Father Samuel Mother Harriet WILDS
At Moonabel 1889 Reg#14704
Cheers :)
Cando
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This may be Samuel's birth in SA as I noticed a death for a Samuel COLLINS, 67 years in 1921 at Maryborough Reg#10761
COLLINS Samuel
2 Jun 1854
Father Samuel COLLINS Mother Mary Jane Clarke PEARN
At Bowden Ade 4/330
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Darren
Thanks for your additional info, very interesting!!!
I have a copy of the 1851 UK census which has James WILDS and wife Ann (nee KEMP), their daughter Clara aged 1 and Ann's son, James WILDS aged 10. (born James KEMP).
However, i suppose it is possible John/James was transported in 1838 for 10 years and then came back to England?
I did find a criminal record for a James WILDS who was convicted on 27/12/1859 at Brighton Town Hall in Sussex for 'Larceny after previous conviction'. His sentance was ' 1 month hard labour, except 3 days in solidary confinement; then to be remanded to a reformatory school, there to be detained for three years'. It hasn't got an age, but i was wondering if this James was being remanded to a reformatory school, could it be he was under 18??
It doesn't say anything about transportation. However, i wonder if this person had commited another crime after being released, would that have resulted in transportation? This crime was already their second offence.
I did originally wonder if this could be the child of Ann and step son of James WILDS....but if so, they were already in Australia by 1859, unless he was left behind or perhaps this is just another James WILDS!
I read with interest your family information from Harriet Elizabeth WILDS. Someone found a 1841 census in Soberton/Droxford, Hamps with possibly the KEMP family. There was a Ann aged 20 and a James aged 6 months there. If it is them, it would appear Ann's mother was Elizabeth and father James. She could have named her son after her father. It also seems Ann may of had a sister called Harriet, as there is a Harriet aged 9 residing too. I think this is the family. Too many coincidents.
I couldn't find James WILDS b 1817 Soberton, Hamps in the 1841 census, so maybe he was in Australia!!!
You may be interested to know that the illegitamite James WILDS married a Maria CARR in 1876 in Percydale, Vic. Sadly, Maria died a few days after giving birth to their first son, Charles William WILDS in 1876. She was only 18. Charles then, for some unknown reason, changed his surname to WILES! Possibly his father had told him that WILDS wasn't his real surname, but taken from his step fathers surname, so Charles thought nothing of changing it to WILES.
I can email you a copy of the 1851 census if you like or it is available on another well known ancestry web page, if you have membership.
Kind regards
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Thanks for the reply, Aussie Pom.
You're right, it is possible that James returned to England after he served his sentence...then married and later returned to Australia when the gold rush started.
I do now have doubts that James was the John Wilds who was sentenced in 1838. Its a bit hard to believe a court would get someone's name wrong. Its more believable that their name was spelt incorrectly once they reached Australia. If something can be found for Benjamin Wilds and Lucy Kemp, that might help. I realise that some records are not accurate. Example, my grandmother's death certificate shows her father being a Jolly (it was in fact Harvey) - her aunt had been married to a Jolly...so Lucy Kemp might have been a relative of Ann Kemp, and Benjamin Wilds might have been another relative to James...next of kin at time of death?
I have just had a break-thru (just before I posted this message...lucky I did one more search!)...I found when James & Ann came to Australia!
Ship Lady McDonald, July 1852:
WILD JAMES 34
WILD CLARA 2
WILD ANN 31
WILD JAMES 11
I know information can get distorted over the years as its passed down the generations, so I'm not discounting the notion that it was James' father or brother who was the convict in the family.
I did find on another topic some info on James Wiles the convict:
1823 19 Jul Convicted at Huntingdon 1823 Age 35years
1823 Sentence Life transportation
1824 Jul 17 convict landed from the "Countess of Harcourt" (3) and forwarded to Minto for distribution
1824 Sep 3 & 10 prisoner assigned Richard Kemp, George St Prisoners Barracks Sept. 10 John Gaggin, George St
1824 Ticket of Leave #38/768
1825 Mar 8 Servant of William Elderkine, tailor. Petition for free passage for his wife Isabella and five children
1825 Jul 19 convict who has money lodged in the Savings Bank of New South Wales
1844 Conditional Pardon #761
It also said the last child was born around 1818 and that they had 6 children (yet only 5 came with her). I wonder, could this be James Wilds' parents?
I'm glad there's so much stuff online these days and I look forward to delving right into it once the World Cup is over! And hopefully someday we can put this one to bed :)
cheers,
Darren
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Forgot to add the followig.
The National Archives (England) also contains:
Records of the Admiralty, Naval Forces, Royal Marines, Coastguard, and related bodies
Folios 396-399. James Wilds, born Hampshire.
Attestation papers to serve in the Royal Marines at Portsmouth 1837 (when aged 19).
Discharged 1846 as an Invalid.
So he might have been on a ship somewhere during the 1841 census?
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Hi Darren
You have certainly done very well, finding them on the ship in 1852, listed as WILD and not WILDS..my sucess rate at immigration ships is very low :(
I had come across that James WILES from Huntingdon, but that family are WILES and not WILDS and Huntingdon is in Cambridgeshire area, which isn't really near where our WILDS are from...interesting that there is a Richard KEMP involved though!I had pretty well dismissed the idea this person was related, but i could be wring...
That info at the National Archives sounds very promising too. I did have a quick look for Benjamin & Lucy WILDS in the 1841 census, but couldn't find them. I will have to do more digging.
I found a death for a Lucy WILDS in Droxford in 1849, which could be the same Lucy WILDS. So there should be some record for a Lucy WILDS in the 1841 census, somewhere!!!
Kind regards
AP (Charlotte)
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Hi Charlotte,
Sometimes you just have to be lucky! I haven't had much time lately to do any research, but did a few searches today.
I came across these baptism transcriptions in Soberton:
Children of Benjamin & Lucy Wild/Wilde:
Page 14 no 109 January 4 1818 James son of Benjamin & Lucy WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 17 no 135 February 14 1819 John son of Benjamin & Lucy WILDE Soberton Labourer
Page 22 no 176 Dec 3 1820 Ann dr of Benjamin & Lucy WILDE Soberton Labourer
Page 27 no 212 January 20 1822 George son of Benjamin & Lucy WILDE Soberton Labourer
Page 33 no 259 Nov 9 1823 Charles son of Benjamin & Lucy WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 40 no 314 Dec 25 1825 Elizabeth dr of Benjamin & Lucy WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 49 no 390 Apr 10 1828 Henry son of Benjamin & Lucy WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 54 no 431Oct 18 1829 Martha dr of Benjamin & Lucy WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 64 no 506 Apr 14 1832 Levi son of Benjamin & Lucy WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 84 no 667Nov 27 1836 Stephen son of Benjamin & Lucy WILDE Soberton Labourer
Children of James & Ann Wild/Wilds:
Page 121 no 965 January 6 1847 John son of James & Ann WILD Soberton Labourer
Page 128 no 1022 June 11 1848 William son of James & Ann WILDS Soberton Labourer
Page 133 no 1063 February 2 1850 Privately Baptised Clara dr of James & Ann WILD Soberton Labourer
I'm still trying to locate which Wilds was the convict, but that might have to wait until I get back from New Zealand.
regards,
Darren
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Hi Darren
Where did you find all that info??? It was great finding all the family.
I finally found Benjamin & Lucy WILDS in the 1841 census. I could not locate them, so i tried searching under one of their childrens name, the more unsual 'Levi', which you had found. I got a hit! The following are recorded in the 1841 census:
Benjamin WEILDS Born about 1786 Hampshire. Ag Lab
Lucy WEILDS Born about 1796 Hampshire
Martha WEILDS born 1829 Hampshire
Levi WEILDS born 1832 Hampshire
They are living in Upper Street, Soberton, Hamps.
I will now start searching for them in 1851, but think i found Lucy's death in 1849....
Regards Charlotte
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Hi Cando,
Ive just been reading some of your info on the Wiles family living in the Clunes and you said you have loads of information on them . I really keen to hear about them .
James Wiles born 1805 in St Neots Hunts was grandfather to James Wiles born 1850 in middlesex and from your information i have children Charles William Wiles 1876 and James Fletcher Wiles 1883.
Look forward to hearing from you
Bellababy
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Hi CANDO and SPARRETT and anyone else who has information on Griffin Fletcher Wiles and his family i have noted down what info i could find on the previous postings. Thing is now does anyone have any info on the next generation - who did they marry, occupations etc .
That would be James Wiles and Margaret Morgans children:
(Margaret 1881 / Ruby Ella 1882/ James Fletcher 1883 / Grace 1885 / Stella Irene 1887 )
Rosa Eliza and James Martins children:
(Griffen Fletcher 1877/ Augustine Shelly M 1877 / Rose V 1878 / Agnes I 1880 / Eileen hope 1882 / James j 1884 )
And Edwin and Sarahs children:
(Jane 1884 / Francis 1885 / Edwin drysdele 1887 ) * Edwin Drysdele in down as fathers name James but the same mother ??? not sure about that one and theres more children but registration dates seem out ??? /Minnie 1892 / Rosa 1896 / May 1896 / Edwin 1900 / Leslie 1902 mmm bit of a mystery to me
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Bellababy I did do quite a lot of research at the time but at it appeared to be incorrect and it has gone either in the fire or through the shredder. I no longer keep any research notes from searches I do for chatters.
bellababy do you live near a library or family history group that has the Vic bdm indexes. Much more satisfying to do the research yourself if you are able. I am unable to do the searches for you at the moment.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando
Thanks for your reply im in the uk but my local library does do a free ancestry which has quite a bit on Australia but certain things ive been unable to get hold of for instance one of the daughters married but it just say s who she married not when or where ?
The other thing is a link got mentioned for the national archives for access to Griffin Fletcher Wiles will - i have tried and failed to access this link :(
Anyway someone else may have info
Thanks
Bellababy x
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Hi bellababy,
You can download a copy of Griffin Fletcher WILES will here:
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54
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Margaret Wiles born 1881 died at one day old:
WILES Margt age 1day d. 1881 CLUNES #9924
Father: Jas
Mother: Margt MORGAN
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Marriage:
WILES Jas Fletcher m. WILLIAMS Adelaide Margt 1905 CLUNES #6297
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Marriage:
WILES Jane m. MILLS Jno 1912 #7406
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Marriage:
WILES Francis m. MCCULLOUGH Jessie Maud 1912 #3249
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Marriage:
WILES Griffin Fletcher m. BOYD Ethel Mildred 1914 #9157
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Hi Merlin,
Thanks so much for that link to the will - i downloaded it ;D I shall peruse later on .
Such a help with the dates for the marriages as it gives me an indication of births of next generation too
THANK YOU SO MUCH ;D
Bellababy x