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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: seahall on Saturday 17 April 10 07:56 BST (UK)
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HI All.
I wonder if anyone can help with marriage details for
the above couple.
The marriage is listed on freebmd as being in the Mar Qtr of 1872.
It more than likely it took place in St Helens.
T.I.A.
Sandy
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Lancashire BMD may be able to list the church.
Try there. PAuline
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Hiya Sandy unfortunately the marriage is not on Lancsbmd or Lan-opc.........allan
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I cant help with the marriage but have you found him on Census entries?
1861 he is possibly a Brother in Law, age 12, born c 1849 St Helens, living with Thomas Berrington and Wife Jane. Jane is born Cumberland.
RG9/2750/26/45
Thomas Berrington married Jane Gill September 1857, Prescot, 8b 736
Looking for that marriage may give you their Father.
And if it is your Thomas in 1851 he is with his sister ( or Mother?) Jane and other young Gills in St Helens lodging with the Gosling family.
HO107/2195/126/49
There is a Jane Gill and John Gill christened 1831/1832 Cumberland on the IGI to GEORGE and JANE
1841 Census
Castle, Cumberland
HO107/172/2/Castle Sowerby
Jane GILL, 30, Ind
Jane, 11
John, 8
Ann, 1
All born in County
This all fits with children on 1851 Census
As I say may be a total coincidence but you never know :D
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Thanks all for your replies.
I think my friend will have to send for the marriage certificate. :)
Pauline and Garstonite thanks for the link and looking up the Lancs bmd.
Sandy
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Hi to whoever picks this up (hopefully Sandy Hall!).
New to this game, you will see this is my first post. Have been interested in investigating my family tree on and off over the years without taking it too seriously or spending any money!! Have been doing a bit more research recently and came upon this brief thread from 7 years ago!!
I am 99.9% sure the Thomas Gill and Mary Moore referred to in this thread are my Great-Great Grandparents.
My grandfather was Thomas Gill (DOB 3/6/1910-buried 10/4/1975), and his father (my great-grandfather) was also called Thomas Gill (yr of birth 1885, buried 14/2/1961)....and his father was the Thomas Gill who is the subject of the thread (my great-great-grandfather) - three Thomas's in a row to make things nice and easy! All born, lived and died in St Helens, Lancashire - or so I thought!
Via the Lancashire BMD Index, St Helens Cemetery records and basic census info, have verified various records (records show Thomas was buried in St Helens Cemetery 6/11/1918 aged 68) . I had myself spotted in the past this apparent Australian connection to the Thomas Gill in the thread.
The 1901 census shows:
Thomas Gill (Head) born in 1848 (age 53) in Sydney, Australia?
Mary (Moore), wife - born St Helens 1852 (49) (as were all the children below)
Rose (daughter) - born 1881 (20)
Agnes (daughter) - born 1883 (18)
Thomas (son) - born 1885 (16)
John (son) - born 1887 (14)
Kate (daughter) - born 1889 (12)
Charles (son) - born 1891 (10)
Michael (son) - born 1884 (7)
The 1891 census shows the family living at Back Canal Bank, Eccleston, St Helens:
Thomas Gill (Head) - shows born in 1851 (40) in St Helens (?)
Mary Gill (wife) - born St Helens 1856 (35) (as again were all the children)
Mary Gill (wife) - born St Helens 1857 (34) (??? - duplicate entry?)
John Gill (daughter ??) - born Ireland 1857 (34) ???
Rosie (daughter) - born 1881 (10)
Agnes (daughter) - born 1883 (8)
Elizabeth (daughter) - born 1884 (7) - *not with the family on the 1901 census
Thomas (son) - born 1885 (6)
Joseph (son) - born 1886 (5) - *not with the family on the 1901 census
John (son) - born 1886 (5)
Kate (daughter) - born 1888 (3)
The 1881 census again shows the family living in St Helens
Thomas Gill (Head) - born in 1851 (30) in Melbourne, Australia (?)
Mary Gill (wife) - born in 1853 (28) in Ireland (?)
Mary Ann Gill (daughter) - born 1876 (5) in Wigan, Lancs - *not with the family on the 1891 or 1901 census
Bridget Gill (daughter) - born in 1878 (3) in St Helens - *not with the family on the 1891 or 1901 census
Thomas Gill married Mary Moore in 1872 in St Helens Parish according to the Lancashire BMD Index (ref C6/4/223)
Can't find any Thomas Gill in St Helens on the 1871 census. Have also noted the Berrington/Gill connection as posted by Trish1120 at the time, much of which I'd already picked up on myself.
With all the info available, my questions would be:
Was Thomas Gill actually born in Australia, and if so Melbourne or Sydney? He either knows he was, thinks he was, or was playing a game with the census takers (unlikely);
How did his parents get to be in Australia in the first place (presume would be the child of emigrants?);
When did he come back and why? Has to have been before 1872 when he married.
Why come to St Helens if there wasn't already a connection?
Was Mary Moore born in Ireland, as censuses are contradictory? (There is a Mary Moore born in Westmeath, Ireland in 1851.
If there's anyone out there who followed up on this original thread or has some pointers as to what the next steps should be, I would be very grateful.
Many thanks for taking the time to read!
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Marriage Parish Church St Helens 28th Jan 1872
Thomas Gill-21-bach-labourer-Father William Gill-carrier
&
Mary Moore-20-spin-Father-Patrick Moore-labourer
Residence at time of marriage -Sutto(w)? St Helens
Both mark X
Witness-Elizabeth (Taburu?) difficult to make out surname-marks X
Jackie
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1871 census Sutton Lancashire RG10/3866 folio136 page40
Mary Moore born Ireland
with father Patrick
Jackie
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Have you taken look at his entry on the 1911 census.
It may narrow down your search a bit, it may be more reliable for his birthplace as it was filled in by the householder.
Regards
Angie
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Jackie/Angie, many thanks for your help and suggestions, much appreciated.
The marriage details are very useful,first time have seen the name of Thomas's father, William Gill, will see what I can discover about him.
I had seen Mary Moore and her father Patrick on the 1871 census but was unsure it was the right Mary, so the marriage details seem to confirm its the right person. Sutto(w) in the details will be "Sutton", part of St Helens and one of the original four townships that came together to form the town. Definite Irish connection there, so some more avenues to go down.
Thanks once again!! :)
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I wonder if this is Mary Moore baptism - although baptised 1854 it doesn't give her birth date
Baptism: 15 Oct 1854 St Thomas, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Mary Jane Moore - [Child] of James Moore & Bridget
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Laborer
Baptised by: G. Thornton Mostyn Incumbent
Register: Baptisms 1839 - 1856, Page 158, Entry 1258
Source: LDS Film 1849656
the eldest daughter of Thomas and Mary is Bridget - same as the mother of this Mary Moore baptism ??
looks a possible :)