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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: jennifer c on Saturday 17 April 10 00:11 BST (UK)
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I am doing this research for a friend so all I have is the marriage of a Johanna Turpin to a Robert Spicer in West Ham Dec qtr 1911.
I can not see her in the 1891/1901 /1911.
She goes on to have six children so she is not the one in her 60's that seems to show on the census index?
Any help please.
Jennifer
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Robert Spicer's WW1 record is on Ancestry with his marriage details.
They married on 11.12.1911 at The Register Office, West Ham.
3 children named on the service records.
Address, 7 Griffiths Street, Canning Town. (then that address is crossed out and 7 Rivett? street, Tidal Basin inserted. He is a labourer born 1878.
Tressle
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A Johanna SPICER died in Newham in 1970, birthdate given as 4 Jun 1893. If that's the right person it might help to know her birthdate.
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I suspect she was b Scotland as there is nothing on freebmd.
There again - nothing on the Scottish 1901 either. Hope she wasn't born Ireland!!
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All I have come across regarding anything like a Johanna Turpin, is an 18 year old travelling out in 1895 from Glasgow on the ship Ethiopia
Johanna TURPIN, leaving 3 October 1895 from Glasgow to New York, USA says she is Scottish.
born 1877 (Age 18) Marital status Single
Tressle
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I think this lady could prove difficult, but thanks to your help I am a little bit further on.
Many many thanks for all help given.
Regards
Jennifer
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I have spoken with my friend who now tells me that he lived with his grandmother and went to her funeral aahhhhhhhhhh
He said she did not have a Scottish or Irish accent, so I think we have to assume she was born in England. I have looked at the army record for her husband and Rivett Street sometimes shows as River Street Tidal Basin.
I have looked at the freeBDM for the date of birth for Turpin and there is an Hannah Turpin for the right qtr. Mile End. When I checked the 1901 census she is with her mother who is a widow and siblings, so no father to check against any possible marriage certificate.
I do not think this one wants to be found.
Any further thoughts welcome.
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer
Hannah in the 1901 cenus has mother Hannah and a brother Christopher.
Baptisms:
St Botolph, Aldgate
Baptised 5th January 1896
Both to parents William and Hannah Pauline TURPIN of 21 Longfellow Road, Mile End; father's occ: compositor
Hannah Morey born 7th April 1893
Christopher William born 6th November 1895
Kind regards
Gaie
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Thank you Gaie, I will keep that information in hand.
I have managed to find the 1891 ref for Rivett Street RG12/1319 18-24 could someone please check if there is a Spicer or Turpin family there?
Jennifer
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In 1891 the Murley family with visitors White and Smith were living at 7 Rivett Street, Canning Town.
I'll look in 1901 and another census ;)
KR
Gaie
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1901 the house was two households: the Hunt family with brother Davis, and the Driscoll family.
Another census has only one house in the street, number 28 ??? occupied by the Crawleys.
KR
Gaie
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Thanks Gaie, at least it rules that out. I have tried googling Griffiths Street, but that does not even seem to exist?
Jennifer
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Yes, Griffiths Street is not showing up at all in London or Essex in the other census.
So frustrating that they married in a registry office as the chances are the marriage would be showing in the parish registers otherwise ???.
I hate to say it but a certificate is needed..... ::)
KR
Gaie
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Thanks anyway Gaie, I will let you know if I do trace her.
Jennifer
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Hi back for another go at finding her.
I have now bought her marriage certificate 11/12/1911 West Ham Register Office
Johanna Turpin 20 spinster 79 Adamson Road Custom House father Richard Owen Turpin Dock Labourer
Robert Spicer 33 bachelor Gen.Labourer 5 Smith Street Canning Town father Robert Spicer deceased Gen.Labourer
Witnesses George John Perkins & Mary Turpin
I have just found in the index a marriage same year /qtr/ West Ham Richard O Turpin married Mary A Spicer
Could this have been a double wedding ?
Any help to get anywhere with this will be very much appreciated.
Jennifer
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A sibling perhaps?
Births December qtr 1896
Richard Owen Turpin West Ham 4a 133
Deaths December qtr 1896
Richard Owen Turpin age 0 West Ham 4a 79
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Thank you Carole, Yes, I thought that, but as usual with this family it goes nowhere he dies the same qtr he is born!!
Jennifer
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It's not your most common name is it? There is a 1991 death for a Richard Owen Turpin in Essex but he was only born 16.4.1911
June qtr 1911
Richard O Turpin West Ham 4a 188
Johanna's illegitimate son perhaps??
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I am sitting here going around in circles, but I may have had a break through.
1911 census 79 Adamson Road had a Knightley family with Hilliard stepchildren. Going back on marriages of Charlotte Knightley she mar Harry Knightley as a widow , her mariage to Hilliard she was a spinster named Billing.
THere is a Horace Turpin marrying a Rebecca Charlotte Billing in Tottenham in 1887.
I have not worked out the connection yet.
Jennifer
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Well here is Horace Turpin 1891, Piece 175 Folio 119 Page 27
Horace, Compositor born Islington, aged 32
Rebecca C, born Islington aged 22
Florence, 2
Horace 10 months.
1901
Same family with an addition of a Frederick and a Walter children
The same family are still in Edmonton on a later census.
Tressle
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So no connection to Johanna b c 1891
IF - Johanna was the mother of the Richard O Turpin b April 1911 - she should be on the 1911 census
I'm sending you a pm as I can't post this info on the board - possible living person
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Thank you Carole, if I ever find this lot it will be a miracle.
Jennifer
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I'll second that!!
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Hi I am back on the trail of Johanna,
I have now bought a birth certificate of a Richard Owen Turpin born 19/9/1896 address 7 Smith Street Canning Town
parents Owen Turpin & Mary Ann formerly Hall. Owen is a Dock labourer. I know this boy died soon after he was born, so I do not think there is any reason to buy the death certificate.
I am guessing the father Owen to be an uncle of Johanna?
I have traced his marriage to a Mary Ann Prett 1896 Aug.9th St.James the Less, as she is given as a widow and her father is Daniel Hall deceased. Address 71 White Street for both. His father is given as Richard Turpin - Grocer. The witnesses were George White & Sarah Coffey. Gaie said there were 'White' visitors in 1891 cenus at Rivett Street, I can not find it on the 1891?????
I have traced a Richard Turpin - grocer in 1871 in Pettits Lane Romford Essex with sons Owen 11 & a Richard 17. Could the son Richard be my Johanna's father? Owen & Richard have place of birth London!!!
Have found Richard Snr. in 1881 in Mile End on his own born Brecon.
Owen is 1881 born 1860 Peckham with his brother Caleb born Romford 1864 in Bromley by Bow and Owen is in West Ham in 1891 born Peckham Rye.
Still does not help me find Johanna or her father Richard Owen Turpin.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Jennifer
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Forgot to say:
Adress for the death cert is 7 Smith Street Robert Spicer who Johanna married in 1911 lived at 5 Smith Street.
I have found their witness at there marriage a George John Perkins at no.2 Smith Street Canning Town 1911 census.
What am I missing?????
Jennifer
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The 1891 has an Owen Turpin b Peckham Rye about 1861 - single and in lodgings in West Ham with a family called Shingley occ gen labourer
RG12 Piece 1327 Folio 84 Page 29
Marriages St James The Great Bethnal Green 9.8.1896 - both gave their address as 71 White St
Owen Turpin bachelor 34 father Richard occ grocer
Mary Ann Prett 33 nee Hall a widow father Daniel Hall deceased
Witnesses George White and Sarah Coffey
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Right, Sarah Coffey was Mary Ann Hall's sister.
Now how do I find George White?
How do I find RG12/1319 18-24 7 Rivett Street ?
Jennifer
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I don't think there is any connection to Owen Turpin
I have tracked Mary Ann Hall's previous marriage which was to Charles Prett. He died late 1891 and their last child on the 1891 census was Jane aged 9mths
She only re-married to Owen Turpin in 1896
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Thanks Carole, I am grasping at straws here.
How do I find the census 1891 on A with the known piece and folio?
Jennifer
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Hi
That full 1891 ref you quote above shows no results on Ancestry but if you omit the page number - 24 - and just use piece and folio - you get West Ham entries
Turn up the 1891 search page and scroll to the bottom of the entry fields
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Latest up date:
Clara Shingley was Owen Turpins sister.
Jennifer
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Hi Jennifer - you probably know by now, but Clara's married surname was actually Skingley (forever mistranscribed!)
- Sarah-Lou