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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Pembrokeshire => Wales => Pembrokeshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: PaulaToo on Thursday 15 April 10 21:20 BST (UK)
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Think it's time to squawk for help...brick wall too high to climb, need someone with a ladder...............
Grandfather William Stevens Mathias said they 'came down' to Pembroke Dock...and yes he was right...I've followed them up the road to Wiston, where John Mathias married married Elizabeth Griffiths, 24 Feb 1820.
By what it tells us on the 1851 Census, John Mathias was formaly a farmer from Slebech.... but there I loose him.
Can anyone find me any information on John Mathias born approx 1775 in Slebech(?) or his wife, Elizabeth Griffiths born approx 1791 in Lovestone
Would be very grateful for any help
Paula
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Have you looked at the will of Elizabeth Mathias of Slebech 1733/22 or Eleanor Mathias of Pembroke Dock 1842/71, Mary Mathias of Pembroke Dock 1849/129.
All available on the NLoW website
http://cat.llgc.org.uk/cgi-bin/gw/chameleon?skin=profeb&lng=en
Could my own databases be of assistance at ;
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,413801.0.html
I will admit that Mathias and Slebech are not a recognized common combination, however there is a 1st time for everything.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hi Oriel,
Elizabeth of Slebech 1733/22 seems to have got past me, will have to go looking for that, thank you.
I have William Mathias of Slebech 1735 and Elizabeth Mathias of Slebech 1672, but they are just a bit too early for my John.
Ooooo, isn't it annoying. They have got to be relations, the same as Eleanor and Mary in Pembroke Dock, but it's finding the links to fit them in.
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of another will...
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I went up to the Rec Off today and had a search on your behalf. The Parish Registers for Slebech only start in 1813, therefore his ancestory will require other documents.
Loveston Parish Registeres start in 1791, therefore I search 1791 to 1801 for the baptism of Elizabeth Griffiths, nil found.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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That was very kind of you, Oriel.
Well, looks like that is going to stay a brick wall unless I get a stroke of luck from somewhere.
It was very good of you to do a search for me.
Very many thanks.
Paula
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Hello there
suspect there might be a link with some of my ancestors:
my grandfather's paternal grandmother:
Margaret Ball Mathias b25Sep1791 Cartlett, Haverfordwest d1May1837 Hampton Bishop, Herefordshire.
parents:
Joseph Mathias b9Sep1743 d25Feb1806 both Cartlett
marr 21Aug1769 St David's Cathedral to Mary Williams b4Feb1747 Llanvin St David's d18Oct1829 Cartlett
Joseph's parents:
Joseph Mathias married Margarett Ball 4Mar1738 Slebech.
Have an FTW of this family I got from a descendant of Margaret's sister, but I don't have it with me at the moment.
Let me know if you want to follow this up.
Robert.
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I can only confirm that Slebech parish registers at the Record Office only begin in 1813, that said I have been able to source a mrge attributed to Slebech in 1796, Genuki appears to confirm this view except they show slightly earlier circa 1756 (Prob B.T. inclusion) therefore I will make further enquires to clear confusion.
There is no mrge listed for a Joseph Mathias that I can find in 1738 which includes B.T.'s. I can only assume this mrge relates to the registers of the old long defunct parish church of Slebech and not the 'new' slebech church currently up for sale.
The source of the mrge of Joseph to Margaret Ball will be of great interest since this avenue will open up a new area for many researchers.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Robert, Oriel, my knights in shining armour.
Anything you can find out I will be truly grateful for.
I'm buddy useless, I can't get to Pembroke.
This search is truly up to others.
Paula
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There is a John Marthias in the tree shown here, & I would be most interested if anyone knows anything about the Margaret Ball also shown. We think she was born Lancashire and there are a few generations of 'Margarett Ball' born to a family in 'North Meols', near Southport. I'd quite like her to be ‘mine’ as there would be a lot more info without my having to do any work!
Husband: Joseph Matehias
Born: 09 Sep 1743 in: Cartlett
Married: 21 Aug 1769 in: St. David's Cathedral
Died: 25 Feb 1806 in: Cartlett
Father: Joseph Mathias
Mother: Margarett Ball
Wife: Mary Williams
Born: 04 Feb 1747 in: Llanvirn, St. David's
Died: 18 Oct 1829 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
CHILDREN
1 Name: Joseph Mathias
Born: 08 Nov 1771 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 26 Apr 1839 in: Lake Villa, Picton, Pembs
Spouse: Ann Fawke
2 Name: Ann Mathias
Born 1: 31 May 1770 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 19 Feb 1824 in:
Spouse: James McIntire
3 Name: John Mathias
Born: 14 Jan 1773 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: in: Jamaica
4 Name: Henry Mathias
Born: 05 May 1776 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 23 Jan 1809 in:
5 Name: Thomas Joshua Mathias
Born: 22 Apr 1779 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 29 Dec 1812 in: killed in an engagement
6 Name: Richard Mathias
Born: 09 Jun 1780 in: Cartlett
Died: 09 Jan 1833 in: Cartlett
Married: 20 Nov 1814 in: Uzmaston Parish Church
Spouse: Mary Powell
7 Name: William Mathias
Born: 10 Aug 1781 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
7 Died 1: 27 Mar 1782 in: Cartlett
Died 2: 27 Mar 1782 in:
8 Name: Mary Mathias
Born : 02 Jul 1786 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: Nov 1873 in: Wells Farm, St Twynnells
Married: 18 Sep 1810 in:
Spouse: William Roberts
9 Name: Martha Mathias
Born: 15 Jun 1789 in: Cartlett
Died: 09 Jul 1844 in: 'The Shop' Cartlett
10 Name: Margaret Ball Mathias
Born : 25 Sep 1791 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 01 May 1837 in: Bishop Hampton, Herefordshire
Married: 23 Feb 1823 in: St. Martin's cum Gregory, York
Spouse: George Wade
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Hi Robert,
Thank you for putting up all that information.
If I can ever find a connection to them it will be nice to know that they are all there.
I shall copy it off and stow it in the Mathias file.
Thank Kathryn for me, please.
With regards to Margaret Ball....
When all else fails on this board we have a Scavenger Hunt.
I was hoping to be able to put in a link to the thread for you, but it tells me 'Transcriptions must be my own work....' which I don't understand.
However, they are run by Tephra. There is a long waiting list, but once they start they go fast and furious, and usually turn up quite a few surprises.
I have two that I started months ago, and they have suddenly been revived by new found members of the family who were drawn to the names.
It could work for Margaret Ball.
Worth a try.
Cheers,
Paula
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Not wishing to confuse the situation I had a look around a few parish registers today.
H'west St Thomas Burial
Thomas Ball of the Quay buried 19 Mar 1816 aged 51 yrs
Margaret Mathias of Mandlin Bridge Haroldston St Issells buried 03 Apr 1816 aged 36 yrs
Wiston Baptism
08 Mar 1840 John to Thomas & Martha Davies of Colby a carpenter baptised
07 July 1805 (note year) Thomas to John & Frances Davies baptised
Wiston Baptism
12 Jany 1812 Martha and Mary Bartlett baptised the daughters of John & Rachael Bartlett.
John Bartlett married Rachael Phillips at Wiston in 1810, alas I did not have time to get a jpeg of the entry for you.
There is no burial of a Mary Mathias in any H'west Parish in 1829.
I did note the burial of Peter Mcintire at Johnston in 1825.
I do have an interesting jpeg from St Twynells if you can drop me an email address via PM.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Belated thanks for this posting.
Afraid it took me a while to realise it was in response to my post - & even so I don't recognise all the names you quoted. I did ask Kathryn to take a look & perhaps she'll have something more interesting to add.
Incidentally, we would like to find out more information about Thomas Joshua Mathias (b 22 Apr 1779 in Cartlett) who 'died in an engagement' on 29 Dec 1812. Kathryn assumed he died in the Penisular wars, but as they were rather quiet at the time, I wondered if he perhaps died fighting against the Americans. Any idea how we could find out more?
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Hope this isn't going to be confusing, but by starting one generation further up, this shows the siblings of the 'Joseph Mathias' with whose tree I started in my first post...no John in this one, so it probably doesn't belong here.
Husband: Joseph Mathias
Married: 04 Mar 1738 in: Slebech
Wife: Margarett Ball
CHILDREN
1 Name: Ann Mathias
Born 1: 27 Nov 1739 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Spouse: Daniel Roberts
2 Name: Susan Mathias
Born 1: 05 May 1742 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Born 2: 05 May 1742 in:
Spouse: Capt. Joseph Archer
3 Name: Joseph Mathias
Born: 09 Sep 1743 in: Cartlett
Died: 25 Feb 1806 in: Cartlett
Married: 21 Aug 1769 in: St. David's Cathedral
Spouse: Mary Williams
4 Name: Daniel Mathias
Born: 21 Apr 1745 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 04 Jun 1745 in: Cartlett
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All the surnames quoted in my previous come from reference to the posting of 28th April. I am not saying they are directly related only that they may be of use trying to find the information you seek but from a different direct.
For Thomas Mathias I would try a posting on ;
http://www.britishbattles.com/
http://www.victorianwars.com/index.php
Have you looked at the likes of ;
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/search/search_results.aspx?Page=1&QueryText=Mathias&DateFrom=1750&DateTo=1820&SelectedDatabases=A2A%7cARCHON%7cBOOKSHOP%7cCABPAPERS%7cCATALOGUE%7cDOCUMENTSONLINE%7cEROL%7cMOVINGHERE%7cWEBSITE%7cNRA%7cRESEARCHGUIDES%7cNRALISTS%7cE179%7cTRAFALGAR&SelectedSubjects=C10001&SearchType=Quick
A look at the British Army Order of Battle for December 1812 may give some idea’s of how many different countries we where fighting in at the time and therefore what regiment he may have been in, which will lead onto which muster rolls to search.
I note 8 wills to the Mathias surname of Haverfordwest on the NLoW website, have you considered these for any possible mention to the family of your interest ?
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Just had a look at some of the documents sent to me by Kathy.
A transcript of the family bible (now missing) made by Joseph Mathias Fawke in 1916 includes 3 silhouettes of family members each accompanied by some text: anything in [] was added by me:
Grandmamma, Wife of Joseph Mathias Senior
born 1747 at 'Lanvenn' [Llanvin] in St David's.
Died in her house at Cartlett (where Mr Rodgers lived afterwards) in 1829, aged 82 years (nee Mary Williams).
Jos Mathias Senior
Born at Cartlett 1743 died 1806
married Mary of Lanvenn Aug 1769
[Kathryn writes: According to Dyfed FHS, Joseph Mathias married Mary Harries on that date]
Aunt Patty [Martha Llewellyn], Grandfather's sister, died at 'the Shop' in Cartlett, 1844.
The shop was made for her.
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I've just come across your request re Thomas Joshua/ he died in 1812 while on British ship Java in USA waters. Apparently he was pressganged while visiting his brother Henry in Bristol/ Bath area.
I've got more information somewhere; my mother's Godmother's husband was a naval historian and about 40 years ago he looked this one up as my mother and her Godmother were descendants of the Mathias family of Cartlett.
Let me know if you'd like me to look further
Pat
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Hello Pat
Well, great news! Do you know which of the Cartlett family you are descended from?
My gggg grandmother was Margaret Ball Mathias and I've been in touch with a descendant of Margaret's sister (Patty?)...who will be delighted I'm sure. In fact I think Kathryn inherited the research her grandfather did about a century ago...beforehand I'd no idea of Margaret's antecedents.
Please let us know what else you have and I'll let Kathryn know the good news!
Thanks!
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If it helps you I can check ;
1. L.T.A.’s for Cartlett area which is in the parish of Uzmanston for 1828 for Mr Rogers.
2. For your information it is known that Joseph Mathias mrd Mary Harries in 1769 at St David’s
3. I wonder if Joseph is the son of Thomas & Latitia Mathais nee Vaughan mrd 1732 at St David’s
4. Bapt of Mary Williams 1747 at St David’s
5. Bapt of Joseph Mathias at H’west St Mary 1743
6. Death of Martha Llewellyn at H’west St Mary 1844
As previous suggested a look at Mathias wills will be of interest not least Joseph Mathias of 1806/39 of Cartlett in the parish of Uzmanston. I would also consult the will of Mary Mathias of Cartlett reference 1829/56. Both wills freely available on the NLoW website.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hello "Oriel"
Thanks for the offer, I looked at the wills already, though perhaps having a family tree in front of me while doing it might have its advantages!
1. do you think "Mr Rogers" might be the "Mr Rodgers"who occupied "the shop" after Martha Llewellyn died? Don't suppose he was related. If Martha only died in 1829, presumably his residence would not have been 'the shop' in 1828?
2. In what was probably my original post, I gave the following marriage:
Husband: Joseph Mathias
Born: 09 Sep 1743 in: Cartlett
Married: 21 Aug 1769 in: St. David's Cathedral
Died: 25 Feb 1806 in: Cartlett
Father: Joseph Mathias
Mother: Margarett Ball
Wife: Mary Williams
Born: 04 Feb 1747 in: Llanvirn, St. David's
Died: 18 Oct 1829 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Child Nr 5 of the above: Thomas Joshua Mathias
Born: 22 Apr 1779 in: Cartlett, Haverfordwest
Died: 29 Dec 1812 in: killed in an engagement
Is the unfortunate whose death on HMS Java Pat Barker reported: any ideas about how to find a list of HMS Java's crew at the time would be gratefully received!
Not entirely sure about this, but Kathryn was aware that the registers show Thomas as marrying Mary Harries, but the family bible apparently showed Mary Williams.
This was transcribed by Joseph Fawke in 1916, but the bible itself subsequently 'went missing'.
I gave the full transcription in a previous posting & mentioned that DyFed FHS showed the spouse as Mary Harries. As Mary was apparently Joseph Fawke's grandmother, perhaps he might be trusted to have known her maiden name?
3. Think the marriage details above show that Joseph can't have been the son of Thomas & Latitia.
There was a wealthy unrelated Mathias family in Cartlett at the time...the name Latitia suggests (to me) they came from this branch!
4. Yes, looks like this "Mary Williams" is the one marrying Thomas Mathias as shown in 2, above.
5. Yes, looks like this is Mary Williams' husband.
6. Yes, once again, looks like Martha Llewellyn is Joseph Fawke's "Aunt Patty"!
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I would make the following observations
1. There are no birth records pre 1837, on some very rare occasions the d of b was added to a baptism entry. Cartlett was never a parish. At the time of your interest it was in the parish of Uzmanston. Although today it would be considered part of Haverfordwest. Even at the time of your interest Haverfordwest St Mary would be far easier to reach for religious ceremonies that the trek by foot or horse out to Uzmanston church.
2. Uzmanston P,.R.’s start circ 1720 so it is possible that Joseph was baptised there.
3. There is absolutely no reference to the mrge of a Joseph Mathias to Margaret Ball at St David’s Cathedral, so where ever the mrge took place it was not there. St David’s mrge registers begin in 1724. The only reference to the mrge of a Joseph Mathias at St David’s is in 1769 when he mrd Mary Harries. Lets see what the entry tells us.
4. HMS Java muster rolls will be located at TNA. I note there are currently 3 references to the ship in the online catalogue of the TNA.
5. I can only non-scientifically establish what appears to be one Mathias family in Cartlett, Uzmanston in the mid 18th, so if your Joseph was of Cartlett when he was baptized at what ever location, then IMHO he is of the Mathias Cartlett family, I will see if I can find his baptism entry.
6. I find it interesting that there are is the odd widely spaced in years entry for the Ball surname in H’west area, indicating that there is no long standing family residing continuously in the town or surrounds. This appears to be confirmed by Thomas Ball the Potter of H’west who has free and leasehold property and family in Stafford Staffordshire.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a snruame
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I think I got a strong impression there was also a wealthy family by the name of Mathias living in the area while looking at the wills.
Uzmaston or Uzmanston?
I think Kathy had it that Joseph Mathias married Margaret Ball in Slebech.
Afraid I've never been to the area, so can't say if that could be understood to be St David's.
I think Margaret Ball was referred to (by Joseph Fawkes?) as 'a Lancashire lass'; whether there was any good reason for her to be in Wales at this time I don't know...perhaps millinery is an occupation the two locations have in common?
Found the entries about HMS Java in the TNA catalogue, but no mention of individual crew members.
I think the battle agains USS Constittuion took place 30 miles off Bahia, Brazil & afterwards the British captives were set off somewhere. Don't know yet if Thomas Mathias was killed outright or died of his wounds.
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I have jpegs of the 1828 LTA of Uzmanston (Cartlett) and the mrge of Joseph Mathias 1769 at St David's for your interest, if you can let me have an email address by PM.
Joseph mrd 1769 was of Cartlett, therefore
St David's Baptism Register 1745 to 1752
06 June 1751 Mary to William and Elizabeth William baptised
Uzmanston Baptism Register 1743 to 1759
28 July 1765 to Thomas Llewhelin a labourer a daughter by the name of Mary.
07 June 1742 to Joseph Mathias a daughter by the name of Susan
20 Feb 1743/4 to Joseph Mathias a son by the name of Joseph
04 June 1745 to Joseph Mathias a son by the name of Daniel
Somehow I appear to have overlooked the burial of Martha Llewellyn 1844, so will add to my next to do list.
Today has convinced me even more there is only one Mathias family at Cartlett
Rgds
Orielbenfro
Oriel a welsh window on a surname
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Until Pat comes back with more details, found confirmation that a 'supernumerary clerk', Thomas Joseph Mathias, was killed on HMS Java (albeit the middle name is wrong: perhaps this was recorded as Jos. & interpreted by some as Joshua and others Joseph?).
From P133 of this book describing the whole encounter:
http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval_History/Vol_VI/P_126.html