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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Penndennis on Wednesday 14 April 10 14:08 BST (UK)
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Just in case there are any fresh eyes out there.
I have a small leather bound notebook dating from about 1780-1810. It was written by my great great ever so great grandmother. Much of it consists of fairly competent poetry or plain text, but there are a number of pages of shorthand which have defied deciphering. It predates Pitman of course.
The layout looks like poetry, and there is a pattern to the symbols at the end of each line which reinforces that interpretation.
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That went quicker than I expected. I have tried Mensa, various books on the history of shorthand, an expert in the US on Pitman, the British Library and a cryptologists society. All without success.
Anyone got any bright ideas, or a talent with code breaking?
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Are the pages which are written in full in English?
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http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rf0VAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=A+history+of+shorthand&cd=1#v=onepage&q&f=false
Google books has 'A History of Shorthand' written by Isaac Pitman but gives examples of earlier forms of shorthand that were in use earlier - Tiffin 1750, Lyle 1762 and Holdsworth 1768 for instance - lots of similarities with the characters here, although can't say for certain whether it's any of them!
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Yes it is written in English. Largely moral in tone.
I saw some similarities with Byrom as well. With a bit of imagination one can spot about 23-25 different symbols. However, if the verse endings are represented by similar symbols then it is probable that the symbols are phonetic. Tricky isn't it?
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How old was your ancestor when she wrote this?
When I was a teenager, my friend and I developed a code using symbols which covered the alphabet and became v proficient in writing in it. I could still write in it now, i think. I wonder if this was your ancestor's private code?
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It looks as if she started writing the poetry shortly before she got married, and the last plain text is by her husband following her death. At the time it was common for all sorts of people to learn and use one of the contemporary shorthand styles for a wide range of reasons. Dickens learnt it as a court reporter for example.
My instinct is that this was a taught system rather than an invented one. The look of the pages is as if they were part of an exercise rather than deliberately coded. I have tried unsuccessfully to match the existing poems with the shorthand to no avail.
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Have you looked at Thomas Gurney? Google Books has a detailed book about his shorthand.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08gd/
Good luck, Peonie
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Anyone still watching this thread? I've had some success with the shorthand. It's a variant of system called `Mason', which went through countless editions, variations and so-called improvements both under Mason's name and perhaps more famously (if you're into such things!) under Gurney's name. The variant we are looking at seems to be a lightly customised version of what's known as `Gurney's Mason', or `Brachygraphy'. Late 18th to early 19th century.
I have begun a transcription. Yes, it's verse, and rather disappointingly seems to be devotional rather than romantic :(
Snippet from page 1 column 2: "Eternal truth attends the word"
Although more intriguing is the beginning of the very last stanza (under the numeral 5): "Away <?> falls delusive toys"
Sean.
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The original poster Pendennis was last online on 4th May this year (if you click on a poster's name you can see various information about them including the date of their last visit to Rootschat). Pendennis should receive a notification that this thread has been added to so they may reply soon. :)
Heather
Edited to add: am in awe of Stenog's skill at recognising and deciphering these old versions of shorthand, I always had enough trouble reading my own shorthand let alone anyone else's!
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Well, another day lost to shorthand! The transcription is basically complete, and follows below.
Some editorial comments are in order: this type of shorthand is notoriously ambiguous (the same problems face readers of Pepys, a similar, but earlier, system). A particular bane for the modern reader is the confusion of `the' and 'thy'. Luckily in this case we are dealing with `hymns', so `thy' is actually rather easy to disambiguate.
Another characteristic of these shorthands is the complete lack of punctuation. I have liberally punctuated the transcription, which includes quotation marks where I think they are needed. Feel free to disagree.
One complete line (1v.c1.03) has eluded me, as have five other individual outlines. I provide the consonantal skeleton as far as I can work it out in <angle brakets>. Crossword gurus might be able to make something of them. Anyone interested in the shorthand system per se can find a copy of Gurney's Brachygraphy at archive.org (http://archive.org/details/brachygraphyorea00gurniala). Our diarist departs from the published system in a number of easily spotted ways.
Finally `Hymn 2' and `Hymn 3' have what look like dedicatory names attached to them. Hymn 2 is possibly to a `Wm ______' (William ____), and Hymn 3 appears to be to a `_____ Doderidge'. Don't know if those names make sense to the OP's genealogy.
Anyway, here's what she wrote, by page (1v or 2r), column (c1 or c2) and line (01...):
1v.c1.01 3
1v.c1.02 On to Grace, how great a debtor
1v.c1.03 <D-L> < ... > Lord <R-S-S>
1v.c1.04 Let Thy Grace, Lord, like a fetter,
1v.c1.05 Bind my wandering heart to Thee!
1v.c1.06 Pain to wander, Lord, I feel it,
1v.c1.07 Pain to leave the God I love.
1v.c1.08 Here's my heart, Lord, take and seal it!
1v.c1.09 Seal it from Thy <C-W-T-S> above!
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1v.c2.01 Hymn 2. Wm. ________
1v.c2.02 From all that dwell below the skies
1v.c2.03 Let the Creator's praise arise!
1v.c2.04 Let the Redeemer's name be sung
1v.c2.05 Through every land, by every tongue:
1v.c2.06 "Eternal are Thy mercies, Lord,
1v.c2.07 "Eternal Truth attends Thy Word!"
1v.c2.08 Thy praise shall sound from shore to shore
1v.c2.09 'Til suns shall rise and set no more.
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2r.c1.01 Hymn 3. ________ Doderidge
2r.c1.02 Ye hearts with youthful vigour warm,
2r.c1.03 In smiling crowds draw near,
2r.c1.04 And turn from every mortal charm,
2r.c1.05 A Saviour's voice to hear!
2r.c1.06 2.
2r.c1.07 He, Lord God of all the world, on high,
2r.c1.08 Stoops to converse with you,
2r.c1.09 And lays His radiant glories by,
2r.c1.10 Your friendship to pursue:
2r.c2.01 3.
2r.c1.02 "The soul that longs to see My face
2r.c1.03 "Is sure My love to gain,
2r.c1.04 "And those that ever seek My Grace
2r.c1.05 "Shall never seek in vain."
2r.c2.06 4.
2r.c2.07 What object, Lord, my soul should move,
2r.c2.08 If <B-?> compared with Thee?
2r.c2.09 What beauty should command my love,
2r.c2.10 Like what in Christ I see?
2r.c2.11 5.
2r.c2.12 Away! Ye false delusive toys,
2r.c2.13 Vain tempters of the mind!
2r.c2.14 To here I fix my lasting choice;
2r.c2.15 Fro' here true bliss I find.
=======================================
Some quite pretty rhymng.
Sean.
!!!Edit: updated with Wiggy's `Saviour's reading in Hymn 3.
!!!Edit: corrected typo: for `pain the' read `pain to' (1v.c1.07)
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Well done indeed! I hope Pendennis sees this soon :)
Heather
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Well done stenog!! :D
Could the last line of hymn 3 verse one be 'Saviour's' maybe?? Not translating - just guessing from what you've already done?
Wiggy :)
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Could the last line of hymn 3 verse one be 'Saviour's' maybe?? Not translating - just guessing from what you've already done?
Nice! Looking at the shorthand outline again, a very strong case can be made for <S-V-W-R-S>. V and P (and R and L) differ in how much of an apex they have. I read them as fairly rounded, but the outline is one of the more cramped on the page, and I can easily see how I could have mis-read it. The little squiggly circle in the middle, my -W-, is the diarist's sign for -ou- and -ow-, so Saviour's fits perfectly.
Good call Wiggy. Saviour's it is. I've modified the original post with your correction.
Thanks
S.
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I had completely given up any hope of getting this sorted out, so I am immensely grateful to stenog (and the rest for the suggestions.) I only have another half dozen pages to go!!
My mum, who passed the book on to me is delighted that we now know what it is, but disappointed that it is not, as had been speculated, the true thoughts of a dominated wife!!
Thanks again.
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Well done stenog - amazing tenacity shown there!!
Having read through those verses again, I know the first one - somewhere deep in my memory is the word that is missing from the last line of the first verse. It will surface . . . . . some day!!!
Couldn't be 'throne' could it?? 1v.c1.09
Wiggy
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How about 'courts' rather than 'throne'? Seems to match the letters from stenog.
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O to grace how great a debtor
Daily I’m constrained to be!
Let Thy goodness, like a fetter,
Bind my wandering heart to Thee.
Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love;
Here’s my heart, O take and seal it,
Seal it for Thy courts above.
It is verse 4 of "come thy fount of every blessing" by Robert Robinson, 1758.
It appeared in his" A Collection of Hymns Used by the Church of Christ in Angel Alley, Bishopgate, 1759.
(Google search!)
Mike
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And from Doddridge, based on : What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world,
and lose his own soul? Matthew 8:36
Ye hearts, with youthful vigor warm,
In smiling crowds draw near,
And turn from every mortal charm
A Saviour's voice to hear.
He, Lord of all the worlds on high,
Stoops to converse with you,
And lays His radiant glories by,
Your friendship to pursue.
"The soul that longs to see My face
Is sure My love to gain;
And those that early seek My grace
Shall never seek in vain."
What object, Lord, my soul should move,
If once compared with Thee?
What beauty should command my love,
Like what in Christ I see?
Away, ye false, delusive toys,
Vain tempters of the mind!
'Tis here I fix my lasting choice,
And here true bliss I find.
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Well done Mike, I did wonder if it might be a sort of learning exercise. A lot of progress in a very short time. Thanks everyone. Now to tackle the other pages!
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Good one Mike - courts - and I knew I knew that verse from somewhere!! :D
Wiggy
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Great sleuthing everyone. It's very useful to have found a crib for those hard to read lines as it gives insight into the idiosyncracies of the author's hand and the ambiguities inherent in the system. I'm doing a collation right now, so we'll be able to see where I misread the shorthand, and where the shorthand diverges from the published text.
If anyone is interested, that is....
S.
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Collation done. Four classes of error:
1. Me dozing, and misreading perfectly clear-ish shorthand:
1v.c1.01 for On read O
1v.c1.06 for Pain read Prone [also 1v.c1.07]
2r.c2.07 for Lord God of all the world, on read Lord of all the worlds on
2r.c2.14 for To read 'Tis
2. Scribal error: the diarist simply gets the outline wrong
1v.c1.09 for <C-W-T-S> read courts [the shorthand clearly reads "couts"]
3. Systemic ambiguity in the shorthand: no way of knowing and I plumped for the wrong choice:
2r.c1.01 for Doderidge read Doddridge
4. Variation: the diarist clearly departs from the published text. The shorthand is clear.
1v.c1.03 [This line is still a mystery. There is no way it can mean `daily I'm constrained to be']
1v.c1.04 for Grace, Lord original has goodness
1v.c1.08 for Lord original has O
2r.c1.04 for ever original has early
2r.c2.08 for <B-?> original has once [the shorthand is unclear, but definitiely not `once']
2r.c2.15 for Fro' original has and
S.
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Further updates. Having seen more of penndennis's shorthand pages, it looks like we have a young lady's shorthand practice, which involves transcribing hymns. The `Wm.' I thought we we had in hymn 2 is actually `Watts' (the symbols for `m' and for `ts' when written carelessly are very close). The text of hymn 2 can be found at hymnary.org.
My work here is done! Thank you again to the original hymn-spotters. I am helping penndennis identify the remaining hymns in his journal, off-thread.
S.
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I am very grateful to everyone for their input, but particularly stenog for obvious reasons. Thanks all.