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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: popkiwi on Wednesday 14 April 10 05:40 BST (UK)
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I am searching for George Carlyle who was born in Scotland in about 1832. I have no idea in which county.
George emigrated to Australia and later moved on to New Zealand from Melbourne in 1863.
This all the information we have on him.
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Have you searched the LDS IGI? A search between 1822 and 1842 shows 4 George Carlyle's -
GEORGE CARLYLE b. 18 Aug 1825 Strands, Saint Mungo, Dumfries to William Carlyle and Joan Bell.
GEORGE CARLYLE b. 19 Jul 1829 Annan, Dumfries to Christopher Carlyle and Helen Little.
GEORGE CARLYLE b. 1837 Scotland to Walter Carlyle and Jean Moffet. Spouse Nancy, married about 1862 "Mi, U.S...ontario"
GEORGE CARLYLE b. 22 Nov 1838 Kirkpatrick-Fleming, Dumfries to Thomas Carlyle and Ann Bell.
Canisp.
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Hi
A search on the 1841 census (you can access it via Freecen) shows a George Carlyle, aged 9, in Dornoch village, Dumfriesshire. Unfortunately, the 1841 doesn't show relationships but the head of household appears to be a John Carlyle, aged 45, a farmer and bacon dealer, land proprietor and miller. There is no female listed who might be a mother/wife.
On the 1851, the family are still in Dornock, and George is listed as 'son' of John, no mother.
A search on Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk shows this baptism:
21 Jan 1832, Dornock, Dumfriesshire George Scott Carlyle, s/o John Carlyle and Marrianne Sloan
This is the only George Carlyle with that approximate birthdate in Scotland in the two censuses and the only one appearing in the baptisms, 1830-1835 (all parishes, all counties) using Carl*le .
Regards
Gadget
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Hi again
I've just run a quick check on the 1861 and 1871 censuses and this particular George is not in Scotland so it looks a strong possible that he's yours.
I've not checked in Eng and Wales or for deaths.
Gadget
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No deaths in Scotland and not on Eng & Wales census as far as I can see so it looks very promising.
The IGI are only showing females births for Dornock. SP has the following with parents as John Carl*le and Marianne Sloan:
1821 John
1824 Nicholas
1826 David Scott
1828 James
1832 Dorothy Knubley and George Scott
1834 Jane
1836 Marianne
1838 Isabella
1840 Elizabeth Ann
Gadget
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Going back further, there is only one baptism of a John Carl*le showing in Dornock at the approx time:
4 March 1794 John son of John Carlyle
Unfortunately, they don't have mothers' names recorded at that time :(
However, a good result for Marianne Sloan which fits with the name of one of the children:
Dornock 11 Nov 1798 Marianne Knuble(y) Sloan daughter of Nicholas Sloan and Dorothy Knubley
:)
Gadget
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Thanks Canisp and Gadget for your findings - I shall study them and see where they lead me.
Thanks again - Evan
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Evan does George's NZ death certificate give his parent's names? I believe they do if the death occurred after 1875?
Do you have George's immigration details to Australia? That will help narrow down which of the George's might be yours.
Did George emigrate with any relatives that you can cross check with any of the possibles that Gadget found?
Have you checked for any obituaries in newspapers which may mention where he came from?
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Gadget/Ruskie - This is my wifes family and it is very confusing.
We don't have any info on George b 1832 apart from his wife, Eliza Smith and their son George Carlyle jnr, b 1864..
Their is no death cert or marriage cert to be found in NZ, so we tend to think he never actually married and he may have gone back to either Scotland or Australia.
We have his entry into NZ via Melbourne, Aust. So we need to find a passenger list from Scotland to Aust between 1832 and 1864. I don't know if they travelled directly from Scotland or had to leave from Liverpool or London.
- Evan
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We have his entry into NZ via Melbourne, Aust. So we need to find a passenger list from Scotland to Aust between 1832 and 1864. I don't know if they travelled directly from Scotland or had to leave from Liverpool or London.
- Evan
Did he travel on the same ship from Scotland all the way to NZ via Melbourne? Or did he disembark in Melbourne and later travel to NZ?
I'm thinking if he got off at Melbourne there must be some record of him arriving - you may be able to follow that up to see if he was travelling with any relatives. It might also tell you his age and occupation and where the ship left from.
I take it Eliza and George Jnr stayed in NZ? Did George and Eliza have any more children?
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George jnr had my wifes father and two other siblings, all have died and left no info.
We think George snr was in Aust for a while, on George jnr birth cert, father was a STOCKMAN, which is an Aussie expression.
I have tried to find passenger lists for him arriving in Aust a while ago, but no success - really, I don't know how to do it.
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George snr sailed from Melbourne to Otago, NZ, on the Saint Clair in Jan 1863 but I cannot find that ship anywhere.
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Following is all info I have on George Carlyle -
Left Melbourne on 23/01/1863 on the 'Saint Clair' arriving in Port Chalmers, Otago, NZ.
1867-1869, lived in Naesby-Manuherikia District electoral role.
1870 - livedin Naesby, Mount Ida electorate
1871-1873, lived in Kyeburn, Mount Ida eletorate.
1874 - lived in Maerewhenua, Mount Ida electorate.
So, he arrived in NZ 1863. Son George jnr was born in Geraldine in 1864, therefore it is possible Geo snr married Eliza Smith in Australia. There is no record of their marriage in NZ.
The last record of him is the 1874 electorate record. No death cert found. So maybe he left Eliza and went back to Aust or Scotland. Eliza had to stay in NZ to bring up Geo jnr.
It's trying to match up Geo snr to where he was born in Scotland that we are after, I think the posting by Gadget was looking very good.
Evan
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Hi Evan :)
He was the only George Carl*le that fitted in theScottish records and he seems to disappear from the Sctottish records after 1851 so I think that he is the most likely.
I see Ruskie's helping you at the other end ;D
Gadget
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Good morning - As we suspect that George Carlyle b 1832 is our man, and that he was born in Dornoch Dumfries - how do I get a birth cert to prove it?
I am fairly certain that he is our man. - Evan
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Hi Evan :)
There won't be a birth cert as such but if you go to Scotland's People and use the info that I gave about the baptism, you will be able to get his baptism record.
It's a pay to view site but very reasonable:
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Regards
Gadget
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Evan,
I've just come across this discussion about George Carlyle and if you are correct in being interested in GC born 1832 I would like to discuss further as his twin sister Dorothy Knubley Carlyle is my Great-great grandmother.
I know very little about George, but do have proof he was in Otago in 1888, and probably back in England in the 1890's as my grandfather (born 1888) recalled that "as a lad" the yarns he told him were exciting !
Gylmor
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Hi Gylmor,
Would he have lived in Carlisle, because on FreeBMD, there is a George Scott Carlyle death in March quarter of 1899 in Carlisle, aged 67, which would confirm birth in 1832.
Tom
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Hi Gylmor,
I have proved by Scotlandpeople site, that Dorothy Knubley Carlyle and George Scott Carlyle were registered on 21st January 1832 at Dornock, Dumfriesshire. So it looks like he died in Carlisle in 1899, March quarter.
Tom
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Hi Gylmor,
Welcome to Rootschat, Gylmor, hope you enjoy
I had posted this as a modification but it didn't work correctly. I blame the tools nothing to do with advanced senior moments.
Tom
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Hi Gylmor - It appears that we have the same family here. My wife (nee Carlye) descends from George Scott Carlyle b 1832. It has been a long hard job but we have found a lot of info on him and have made a fairly good timeline for him.
We would like to hear from you to compare what we have on George and his sister Dorothy.
I did try to contact you yesterday privately but I don't think that message was delivered. You can contact me on - *
Kindest regards, Evan and Heather.
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