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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: schmick on Tuesday 13 April 10 13:54 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to find a baptism record for Madelaine (or Magdalen) Henrietta Vernezobre born about 1806 but could be 1800-1808
According to 1851 census she was born in St George in the East - the trail has gone cold for me here
I live in Australia so difficult to trace further
Thanks
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Hi
Have you accessed the Vernezobre Prerogative of Canterbury wills?
Will of Henrietta Marie Vernezobre, Widow of Christ Church , Middlesex 19 November 1791 PROB 11/1211
Will of Ennice Emilie Vernezobre, Wife 23 November 1789 PROB 11/1185
Will of Daniel Vernezobre, Merchant of Great Saint Helen, City of London 20 August 1778 PROB 11/1045
From The National Archives
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/
15th May 1794 St Helen Bishopgate City of London
David John Vernezobre Batchelor
Nelly Sulliven Spinster of St Leonard Shoreditch
by licence
Both signed
Witnesses Willy Sullivan and Edw. Bradley
St Mary, Haggerston Hackney 29th March 1831
Madelaine Henrietta Vernezobre aged 76 Kent Street
Christ Church, Spitalfields 11th July 1833
John Daniel Verneyzobre aged 23 St Dunstan Stepney
This looks to be a Huguenot family and the surname is rare enough in England that they may very well be all connected.
The Vernezobre family purchased a burial vault at Christchurch Spitalfields in 1744. Benjamin Vernezobre receiving permission to move those family members who were predeceased at the time of the purchase of the vault from their resting place at St Leonard Shoreditch
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oILZAAAAMAAJ&q=Vernezobre&dq=Vernezobre&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&as_brr=0&cd=1
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=b5PZAAAAMAAJ&q=Vernezobre&dq=Vernezobre&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&as_brr=0&cd=5
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=M_PNAAAAMAAJ&q=Vernezobre&dq=Vernezobre&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&as_brr=0&cd=30
Have you contacted the Huguenot Society?
http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/family.html
Regards
Valda
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Hi
1841 census HO107 713/13 folio 27
Bridge Terrace Mile End
Ellen Vernezobre 55 Ind. Not born Middlesex
Hannah Vernezobre 25 born Middlesex
Marriages Mar 1843 VERNEZEBRE Hannah Amelia Stepney 2 375
Deaths Sep 1859 VERNEZOBRE Ellen Bethnal Gn 1c 199
1851 census HO107 1546 folio 152
81 Leman Street Whitechapel
Thomas Burke 39 Head Married Foreman London Docks Ireland
Hannah Burke 36 Wife Married St George in the East Middlesex
Tobias Burke 6 Son St George in the East Middlesex
Thos Burke 3 Son St George in the East Middlesex
Ellen Venzenobre 66 Mother-in-law Widow East India Company Annuitant Ireland
plus 1 servant
http://direct.bl.uk/bld/PlaceOrder.do?UIN=177390768&ETOC=RN&from=searchengine
If the baptisms occurred in a Huguenot church they may not be indexed on the IGI
Regards
Valda
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Thank you so much for the information - so quick!
I suspect my ancestor is probably the daughter of David John and Nelly (Ellen) Sulliven but still need to find that elusive record. I'll follow up those links you have given me
My ancestor married Richard Coote in 1823 in the parish of St Marylebone. they later moved to Australia.
I suspect Ellen Vernezobre in your 1851 entry is her mother. By the way can you tell me what East India Company Annuitant Ireland means. I'm guessing that refers to her husband's employer and her place of birth?
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Hi
The marriage of David John to Nelly Sullivan took place in 1794. Ellen was 66 in 1851 so born circa 1785.
I would contact the Huguenot Society
Ellen's place of birth on the 1851 census was Ireland.
'Annuitant Receiver of an Annuity - An annuity is income paid to a beneficiary at regular intervals, for a fixed period or ascertainable period (usually the lifetime of a nominee) in return for a lump sum payment having been previously made into the scheme by a subscriber - i.e. a spouse, benefactor or employer'
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/a.html
East India Company
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_India_Company
East India Company records are held at the British Library
http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpregion/asia/india/indiaofficerecordsfamilyhistory/familyresearch.html
SOPHIA MARY VERNEZOBRE
Christening: 12 FEB 1797 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London
Father: DAVID JOHN VERNEZOBRE
Mother: ELEANOR
CHARLES ABRAHAM VERNEZOBRE
Christening: JUL 1795 St Mary Whitechapel, Stepney, London
Father: DAVID JOHN VERNEZOBRE
Mother: NELLY
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oILZAAAAMAAJ&q=%22charles+abraham+VERNEZOBRE++%22&dq=%22charles+abraham+VERNEZOBRE++%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&num=100&as_brr=0&cd=1
8th January 1823 Christ Church, Spitalfields
David John Vernezobre aged 50, Stepney parish
St George in the East parish registers are covered by the IGI
Regards
Valda
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Thank you again - plenty of leads to follow up particularly at the Huguenot Society
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Just to note virtually all the Huguenot registers are on the IGI, so any baptism should be found.
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Hi
the first two children for David John were baptised in Church of England registers so there is no reason to think any other children of his would be baptised in Huguenot churches but nevertheless the Huguenot Society is likely to hold considerable information on the Vernezobre Huguenots.
Would not Madeline's Australian death certificate state who her parents were?
1883 Orange New South Wales
COOTE, Madeline aged 77
Regards
Valda
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ANNE VERNEZOBRE
09 AUG 1727 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
MAGDELAINE SOPHIE VERNEZOBRE
08 SEP 1728 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
HENRIETTE VERNEZOBRE -
10 APR 1730 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
CATHERINE MARIE VERNEZOBRE -
27 OCT 1731 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
JEAN DANIEL VERNEZOBRE -
21 FEB 1733 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
CHARLOTTE VERNEZOBRE -
21 AUG 1734 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
EUNICE VERNESOBRE
08 OCT 1735 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
DAVID JEAN VERNEZOBRE
4 JAN 1737 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
CATHERINE ELIZABETH VERNEZOBRE
11 APR 1739 Saint Martin Orgars French Huguenot, London, London, England
ESTER VERNEZOBRE
08 OCT 1742 Threadneedle Street French Huguenot, London, London, England
They are the only baptisms in the Huguenot London churches to the family. By the time Henrietta was born 1800-1808 the only one still operating was the Threadneedle Street Chapel, and this to a much reduced congregations of a dozen or so families, mostly from later waves of Huguenots. She was not baptised there in any case as would show up on IGI.
Alot of the Huguenot families used the Independant Dissenters Chapels in london, as well as the C of E, at this time, so that may be an alternative possibility.
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Hi
If that was the case for the later Vernezobres you would still expect them to show on the IGI and/or BMD Non-parochial registers
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
but they aren't so its likely David John or whoever Madeline's father was, was baptising their children in Church of England churches but not if the IGI has full coverage of St George in the East, St George in the East, despite Madeline and Hannah Amelia (circa 1815 so in theory the Ancestry indexed registers as well) giving that parish as their birthplace.
1851 census HO107 1530 folio 324
9 King William Street St Nicholas Acorns City of London
Richard Coote 48 Head Married House Porter Marylebone Middlesex
Madilaine H Coote 48 Wife Married Assisting St George in the East
Cecelia Coote 18 Daughter Assisting Shoreditch Middlesex
Madilaine K Coote 9 Daughter Newington Surrey
plus 1 servant
Regards
Valda
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Looking through my own Huguenot resources, it seems the family originally came from Languedoc to England, Via Germany, in early 1700's.
Daniel Vernezobre who seems to be the progenitor in England at least, was naturalised by King George I:
"Daniel Vernezobre, son of Matthew Vernezobre, by Anne his wife, born at Konisberg in Prussia. Naturalised George I Feb 17th 1724/5"
The name first appear in the Huguenot registers in London that same year, 1725, when Daniel stood as a godfather at St Martins Ongars.
He seem to have been a merchant in London, and also owned a two thousand acre estate in South Carolina, one of the first big plantations run with African slave labour there. So there may be an avenue for research in U.S archives etc too.
The main research into the family appears to have been done by a Polish researcher Kazimierz Bem. It was his 12 page article, 'The world is not big enough: the Vernezobre family in the refuge" that was published in the Societies Proceedings in 2004 (VOL 28; PART 2, pages 187-198) and that Google Books links to in its limited preview. This should be fairly easy and cheap to get hold of (Abe Books etc. ).
Alternatively he has posted to a couple of Huguenot lists I subscribe in past (2002) with direct contact details which may still work for him:
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/HUGUENOTS-WALLOONS-EUROPE/2002-10/1034972599
http://searches2.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/Huguenot/2002-10/1034972344
Interestingly though the last appearance of them in the baptisms of the French Church is 1753 (Daniel again standing as a godparent), there are several who joined Threadneedle Street after that, at least two possibly Daniels daughters.
Catherine Vernezobre 25 Feb 1753
Charlotte Vernisobre 3 March 1756
Esther Vernizobres 26 Oct 1760
Magdeliene Henriette Vernezobre 29 May 1785 (*With a testimonial from the Huguenot Church of Uterecht)
A Catherine Vernezobre also appears in the later charity records, when she applied to the Esther Coqueau charity between June 1814-Nov 1815, (recommended very particularly by Monsieur Ansbach of the French Church of London.)
That's the last trace I can find of them in the Huguenot records I have.
Valda, I'd agree, I would expect to find the baptism on IGI or BMDregisters too, perhaps it is more a case of the name being in one of the C of E registers badly transcribed?
Regards
Richard
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Hi
I would have expected to pick up Hannah Amelia's baptism not matter how badly the surname was transcribed or indeed Hannah/Anna etc.
I did wonder whether this branch was of Dutch descent paternally and married into the earlier line in England in the C18th. I gave this reference earlier
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oILZAAAAMAAJ&q=%22charles+abraham+VERNEZOBRE++%22&dq=%22charles+abraham+VERNEZOBRE++%22&lr=&as_drrb_is=q&as_minm_is=0&as_miny_is=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&num=100&as_brr=0&cd=1
and from the Utrectht Archives
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.hetutrechtsarchief.nl/collectie/akten/procuratie/u256c41-48-0&ei=SaTFS62FFIuMOLLZheIM&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBEQ7gEwAw&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%2522CHARLES%2BABRAHAM%2BVERNEZOBRE%2B%2522%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D
Regards
Valda
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It can be a bit of a minefield finding the Huguenots once they start using the Anglican Churches. For example I once found a missing 'Bouchard' baptism down as the more Irish sounding 'Buchan' as the writing was faded and the transcriber has obviously tried to 'fit' it to the nearest name familiar to them. These can go completely under the radar as a result. And then alot of the English churches anglicised the French names and surnames for their records. I have only past week with another researcher found my 6xg grandparents marriage Jean Ledoux and Marie Louise Ledoux, down as' John Sweet and Mary Lucy Sweet' in Stepney.
The first link again seems to be from Kazimierz Bem's 2003/4 article in the Proceedings, so he definently would appear to be the man to contact. Unfortunately I do not have a copy myself of that edition of the proceedings. It was quite usual for members of Huguenot families at this time to be established in both Holland and London, which seems to be the case, so it is possible the answers may lay with that branch of the family.
Incidently, though it is probably a little far back right now for schmick, the father of Daniel, is mentioned in the history of the little Huguenot colony in Konisberg:
In 1686, 12 Huguenot families settled down in Koenigsberg in East Prussia.
The lived in the Burggasse, which was called "Franzoesische Strasse" (French
street). Among them were the merchants Pérrad, Vernezobre, Bitaubé, Chamaret and De Lafargue, the cook Colpart, the passementerie workers Dussam andDemin, the tubmakers Valleu and Chethomme and the dyer Poincheval. The pastor was Abraham Boullay du Plessis. In 1687 came the cantor Lejeune and the judge Coulom. They all formed a colony, together with Huguenots who came to Koenigsberg prior to 1685, e.g. the merchant De l'Isle.
The swearing in of the colonists of 1690 reports 32 households:
The pastor du Plessis from Alencon, Normandy;
Pierre Renaud dit de l'Isle from Isle de France;
Paul Thévenin, Sieur des Glaireau from La Rochelle,
Charles de Rameru from the Champagne;
banker Lafargue, former Ancien of the church of Paris;
merchant Pierre Seignoret from Lyon;
merchant Jaques Renaud from St. Arnoul;
merchant Pierre Pellet;
Jean Perreaux from Orléans;
wigmaker Moyse Villeneuve from Monsempron en Argenois;
merchant Pararviere from Guiere;
merchant Jean Pallot from Cardillac en Guienne;
wigmaker Jacob Repey from Pont de Veyle en Bresse;
tailor Rolland from the Dauphiné;
Pierre Poyade from Montraval en Périgord;
Moyse Lafargue from Bordeaux;
Jaques Fontaine, a medical student from Saintonge;
Adam Bulet, women's tailor from Châtillon;
women's tailor Jérémie Bitaubé;
wig merchant Leisker from Cardet en Languedoc;
Matthieu Vernezobre Delaurieux from Villemagne en Languedoc;
shoemaker Jean Lejeune from Vitry-le-Francais en Champagne;
merchant Francois Renaud from St.Arnoul;
Samuel Laurent, wig merchant from Issoudon en Berry;
Jean Bietry from Saintonge; Francois la Brune from Aire;
Francois Barthol from Geneva;
Abraham Dunant from Geneva; Isaac Dionneuil from Bergerac;
merchant Pinet from Bergerac;
Pierre Persode from Metz;
David Gebeneu from La Rochelle;
merchant Louis Chedhommme from Paris.
(Source: Files of the Consistory, Protocol no. 46; cited from Conradt,
Koenigsberger Hugenottenbuch, Heft 1, S. 95 / Koenigsberg Book of Huguenots,
issue 1, page 95)
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I have ordered Kazimerz Bem's article and will try to contact him. Any idea how?
Given Hanna's baptism in St George-in-the-East it would seem that Madeleine is most likely from the same family. Her death certificate sadly gives no clues - the important sections were not completed (same for her husband)
There are IGI records of Vernezobres at the British Chaplaincy in St Petersburg but these records cease in the 1790's
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Schmick
It would probably be cheaper to order the editions of proceedings from Abe books, I think they have a copy for 4 pounds, rather than order direct from British library, if you've not already done so. Alternatively you never know Mr Bem may even email you a copy for free if you can get hold of him. The two links to the Huguenot list contain his email adress (though from 2002).
Also found this on the National Arhives at Kew, a reference for John Daniels Indian Service records:
Vernezobre, John Daniel Abraham IOR/L/MIL/9/255/22v, 30 [n.d.]
[British Library Collections, India Office Records,East India Company, 1600-1858]
Covering Date: 1775 - 1799
And this an insurance document for Magdelina Henrietta (sr?):
MS 11936/444/823583 28 November 1808
Contents:
Insured: Madelina Henrietta Vernezobre, 9 Curtain Road, spinster
They seem a very interesting family of merchants these Vernezobre, many bankers. Have just been reading how a Matthew, (whether the same as in Konisberg, or his son?) became a Baron, and had a palace ordered to be built on his behalf by Freidrich Willhelm 1 on the Wilhemstrasse in Berlin. This later became Prince Albrechts Palace, and was HQ of Reinhard Heydrich of S.S. during WWII, but was bombed out by the allies in 1944.
I would back up Valda, definently worth contacting the society to see what else they may hold, though I imagine Mr Bem, if contacted, probably has alot of the answers to that.
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Thanks
I tried to order the book from Abe. Unfortunately they replied that they no longer has it in stock.
So I had to order through the British Library.
I will try to contact Mr Bem
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Yes apologies, I see they have the edition before Vol 1, but not the one vol 2 you need. Shame that. Still the price at the British library is not unreasonable, it looks an interesting article from the small snippets been able to read through google.
Best of luck
Richard
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Hi again Schmick
Did you have any luck contacting Kazimierz Bem? Or did his article help?
It occured to me to look in Emile and Eugeene Haags book "The French Protestants: or those who have made their name in History since the early days of the Reformation".
This was published in French in the mid 1800's, and lists the more notable French protestant families. The Vernezobres do have an entry:
"Vernezobre (Salomon) of Villemagne, from a family very zealous towards the Reformed Religion, professing it already by 1575, had by his marriage to Isabelle Fizeau, at least two sons, who were established as merchants in Paris. The eldest was Matthieu. When the Royal Counsel summoned the Merchants belonging to the R.P.R (Reformed Protestant Reliigon) to abjure, by invocation of the King, he gave in to intimidation, but shortly after, he found a way to escape to Brandenburg, where he obtained from the Elector, on November 25 1686, with Paul Lafargue, of Bordeaux, Pierre Delisle and Louis Chamaret , the colossal privilage, to alone employ the ribbon making French Refugees, with a protective clause to prevent them working for others without their consent. Armed with this monopoly they established a silk ribbon making factory, at the head of which they placed Samuel Dussua and Jean Denun.
The second son of Solomon Vernezobre was called Jean. He was married at Nanteuill-les-Meaux (Register of the Church) on October 11, 1682, being aged 32 years, to Marie daughter of Louis Chedhomme, bourgeois of Paris, and Esther Pigier. By his wife he was the father to a daughter, baptized at the Huguenot Temple at Charenton under the name of Marie on 22 April 1685, at which time the Edict of Nantes was revoked. We have reason to believe he took refuge in England, and that among his descendants are Charles Abraham Vernezobre established in the colony of Dutch Guyana (Surinam), and Jean Daniel Vernezobre, director of the French Hospital London in 1777.
Linked to the same Vernezobre family, is Emmanuel Vernezobre, of Nismes, who was received as Minister of Bale, with La Porte, of Cevennes, on October 16, 1692, and placed at Potzlow as pastor, where he was succeeded by Fabri and Vimielle? His son Emmanuel, born in 1716, died 28 January 1773, was a master of the French language at the Noble Acadamy of Dresden. He published "Academic Course of the French language, where a Complete System of Grammar with Themes," (Dresden 1778, 1788 , 1802, 1816) and "Aesops Fables, transmitted by Phaedra, Edited by Henri Barnard and Abraham Emmanuel Vernezobre", (Dresden, 1748, 1750, 1756)"
I think the Haags are cleary mistaken in their belief the English Vernezobres descend from Solomons second son, we know from the naturalisation record Daniel was the son of his first son Matthieu, born in Konsiburg, in Brandenburg, Prussia. I believe the Dutch branch has this same origin too, and was started by Daniels brother Abraham around the same time 1720's. (They married sisters..see below from Jean paul Roellys site)
Abraham Vernezobre (son of Vernezobre of Brandenbourg/) died date unknown. He married Magdeleine Sophie Fizeau de Cournonteral, daughter of Jean Fizeau de Cournonteral and Magdeleine Crommelin. On 14 August 1721 at the Waloon Church of Amsterdam.
Daniel Vernezobre (son of Vernezobre of Brandenbourg/) died date unknown. He married Henriette Fizeau de Cournonteral, daughter of Jean Fizeau de Cournonteral and Magdeleine Crommelin. 1725 in London.
You may already have all this if you now have a copy of Bems article, but thought I would post anyway in case it helps any.
Regards
Richard
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Thanks Richard
I now have a copy of Mr Bem's article - a very comprehensive look at the family.
Unfortunately the information fades out before my ancestor but I will keep trying.
I have left messages by 2 methods for Mr Bem but no response so far.
Nick
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Hi ....
Could this be another one to add to the list for you ...
Charles Abraham Vernesobre widower
Rebecca Dobson spinster
27 April 1773
both signed and a witness was Daniel Vernesobre.
St Helens Bishopgate City Of London.
Tazzie
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Also same church the couple from Valda's first reply on page 1.
Daniel Vernezobre widower of St Helens
Henrietta Magdalene Saulnierof Christ Church in county of Middlesex widow
22 April 1777 St Helen Bishopgate City Of London
witnesses were Esther Vernezobre
John Saulnier
John D Vernezobre.
Tazzie
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Thanks for all the information
Nick
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Hello Nick
Yes I can see the problem you have here, I mean she is almost certainly linked to this family because of the rarity of the name, but it is proving that link without a baptism isn't it.
I can see why you think she may be a daughter to David John Vernezobre and Eleanor/Nelly Sullivan.
But I see two problems against that. Firstly the Ellen Vernezobre on the 1851 Census (who I agree with her daughter Hannah Burke/Vernezobre being born in St George in East at same time your looking at, is most likely Madeliane Henriette mother too) would be too young to be the same person as the Nelly Sullivan who married David John. Also she is living on a pension from the East India Company, persumably from her widowed husbands service. David John Vernezobre does not have any record of service with them.
The only record with the East India Company is for a "John Daniel Abraham Vernezobre" who was in the companies service from 1775 - 1799 (So must have been born circa 1750-55). He would therefore seem the only possible candidate for Ellens deceased husband, and therefore the likely father of both Hannah and Madeliane Henrietta. It might be worth ordering his service record, as it may contain details of his family (never had one myself so can't say for certain what they do or don't contain).
Can't find a baptism for him either, but looking at Google Books I can see part of Daniel Vernezobres will of 1778 and he was definently a grandson to him:
"Vernezobre, Daniel of Great St Helens, merchant, my vault in parish of Christ Church Middlesex, dear wife.................(missing)........................Petersburgh,
160 pounds between my grandchildren John Daniel Abraham Vernezobre, David Vernezobre, Magdelen Henriette Vernezobre, and Henriette Frances Vernezobre; Executors: son John Daniel Vernezobre and friend Peter Guinard.
Dated 20 Nove 1776 (Mark of Daniel Vernezobre) Probate 20 Aug 1778.
Further administration 14 May 1791 to Henriette Vernezobre, spinster, Administratrix to John Daniel Vernezobre, deceased, Peter Guinard, the surviving executor also dying intestate. Daniel Vernezobre was formerly of Mile End Green, but late of Stratford Green."
I believe from the limited I can read of Bems article (again via Google books preview facility), that the middle son of Daniel, John Daniel never married and died single in 1780. So John Daniel Abraham Vernezobres father must surely have been the oldest son Charles Daniel (b.1726) or the youngest David Jean (b.1737). Puzzling why there is no baptisms to be found for any of them. Perhaps they were using a very small independant chapel, the records of which are not publicly held or available? I have heard there are some registers of very small London huguenot chapels held in private hands.
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Yes I see what you mean.
According to Mr Bem Hannah was the daughter of David John, born ca 1755, Berbice but lived in UK all of his life who married a non-Huguenot Englishwoman (no name!). He was the son of Charles Abraham from the Dutch branch of the family who owned a plantation in Berbice, Surinam. It was the site of a major slave rebellion in 1762 forcing them to leave. "Hannah Vernezobre-Burke was the last of the family in the UK"
Frustrating the lack of details on this family in the UK.
Nick
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Hello Nick
It did suddenly occur to me overnight that the daughter of Daniel married her cousin from the Dutch branch, so her children would have still had the 'Vernezobre' surname, I'd missed that so 'John Daniel Abraham Vernezobre' the grandson in Daniels will, who worked for the East india Company, could be one of her children, and born in Holland, hence lack of baptism in U.K (Which Valda pointed out right at beggining of the thread). If he was the father of Hannah Vernezobre-Burke, perhaps that is what Bem means, as she would have been related to the Dutch branch, Charles Abraham being her grandfather, just through his son John Daniel Abraham rather than David John.
What also makes me think this is he (Daniel) lists the four grandchildren together:
"my grandchildren John Daniel Abraham Vernezobre, David Vernezobre, Magdelen Henriette Vernezobre, and Henriette Frances Vernezobre"
Assuming David is the David John born 1755, he is definently then born to his daughter into the Dutch branch. Magdelen Henriette Vernezobre is almost certianly too, as she joined the French Huguenot church with a testimonial from Uterecht in 1785, her death 1831 in Hackney gives a birth date for her around 1755, (the wedding of Daniels daughter and her Dutch cousin was in 1753 so date fits). So maybe John Daniel Abraham and Henriette Frances are too. None of these appear to be baptised in Britian so makes sense. The answers you are looking for may well lie in the Dutch archives somewhere.
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Mr Bem names Jean Daniel as Daniel Vernezobre's eldest son and says he never married.
No mention of a Charles (? died in infancy). The "second" son, David John moved to Russia and went bankrupt in 1764 . He was kept in Russia by his creditors and had 12 children there. Some of these are in the IGI for the British Chaplaincy of St Petersburg but no John Daniel. No mention of whether they returned to England.
Does point more to the Dutch connection I think.
Nick
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Nick
If I was you I would definently get in touch with the British Library (http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/bldept/apac/apacoll/apac.html) for a copy of his East India Company Officer Cadet Papers:
Vernezobre, John Daniel Abraham IOR/L/MIL/9/255/22v, 30 [n.d.]
Thinking logically if they paid a pension out after his death, it should surely give details of his wife and any dependants.
Perhaps John Daniel Abraham was also born on the plantation in Berbice, 1750's in Surinam? What records, if any survive, from there who knows! I wonder where Bems info on John David being born there comes from? He (Kazimier Bem) seems to have started a Polish Huguenot Society about ten years ago, but it doesn't seem to be going any more, and can't find any recent posts for him anywhere.
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Nick,
Solomon Vernizobre, came to Russia from Prussia during the reign of Peter The Great. For many years he managed fishery business in Arkhangelsk.
His daughter Elizabeth Vernizobre, after 1787, married Abraham van Brienen (?-1792), Austrian consul in Arkhangelsk (1787).
Mike
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In Sankt-Petersburg List was mentioned British merchant Vernizober David Johan (10 October 1763), Vernizober David (21 March 1766) and Vernizober David John (26 May 1766). He was mentioned in respect of call to Board of Commerce to make legal or notary deed
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Vernezober (Vernizober), Fernezober France, major (retired), home owner in S. Petersburg. During 1763 - 1770
In 1764 Vernezober - owner of village Koskovo.
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Thank you for the additional names Seamike
Richard, I have emailed the British Library re the service record. No response yet. Is there a way to order it online or do I just have to rely on email? I can't see any other way on their website.
Nick
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Hello Nick
I don't think they do have an online order service for these records, so probably have to wait for their email back. In my experience they usually take a few days to get back to you as they are so busy.