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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: brianz on Friday 09 April 10 17:21 BST (UK)
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I have a 2nd Greatgrandfather James Lee b 1827 in Barnsley Yorks, Married a Mary Thornley Apr 1848 in Barnsley. They had 8 children 2 of which were born while he was working in Tampere Finland ( I have the Baptism detailsfrom Tampere ) in the weaving industry ( he was a Power Loom Operator by trade ).
The nearest I can place him in Finland is between Sept 1856 the birth of his son James Jnr in Barnsley and Sept 1865, the birth of his daughter Alice on his return from Finland.
I am trying to find more information about why and what he was doing there and what was exported with him.
I know it is a long shot but can anyone help??
Thanks in advance, Steve
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Could Scotsman James Finlayson 1771-1852 be the reason? He was an engineer who founded Tampere's first cotton/woollen industry. He started with wool in 1828 and then changed it to a cotton mill with two spinning machines. In 1836 he sold out but the new owner continued to expand and by 1877 there were some 12,000 spinning machines at the factory. As spinning was relatively new to Finland would there have been a demand for experienced workers?
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And of course James Lee lived in Barnsley so he possibly could have been employed by Wilson and Longbottom - loom manufacturers who exported all over the world. :)
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Ebch, Thanks for the reply.
I have considered James Finlayson as a possibility as he shipped a lot of technology from England, but from research found that whilst he may have been one of the main founders of the Finnish weaving industry in Tampere. By 1836 he had sold the business to Georg Rauch and Karl Samuel Nottbeck. And then as you said he died abt 1854.
What I am really interested in is what caused James Lee and his family to uproot and move to Finland for a few years. and was he accompanying some machinery or something.
Thanks for the suggestions
Steve
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Hi Steve,
What I am really interested in is what caused James Lee and his family to uproot and move to Finland for a few years. and was he accompanying some machinery or something.
There are a couple of topics on RootsChat with a similar theme:
experienced mill-workers in Britain moved to different parts of Continental Europe.
The main reason was that the industrial revolution was more advanced in England than in the rest of Europe, so even "normal" factory workers could be classified as "skilled" by comparison. Many english firms set up mills in Germany, Silesia, Russia, Poland, etc.
Bob
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Just found topics with more details: :)
Topic: Batley woollen workers, Germany 1880s
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,34233.0.html
Topic: CASSIDY emigrated to Germany
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,280109.0.html
Bob
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Hi Bob
Thanks for the suggestions I will have a look at them.
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Looking at James Lee's address in 1851 - Nelson Street, Barnsley. That was about 200 yards from Wilson & Longbottom, Loom makers.
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Ebch Thanks for the info, Do you know if any employee records or anything similar exist for Wilson and Longbottom? and if so who has them.
Steve
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They do for some years - see National Archives. Good luck
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I remember being in Tampere, on business, (not Weaving etc.!) in January 1983. Very cold obviously. Stayed in a nice Hotel, everywhere was "triple glazed" and all the external doors opened outwards.
Looking out of my window, on the second floor, I could see in the town square, two teams of small children (maybe seven or eight years old) playing a hectic game of ice hockey, a lovely sight and somewhat romantic, in a poetical sense.
Great country!
Bill
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Hi Bill
Thanks for the info, we are due to go to Tampere in mid September for a bit of research so it should be warmer and then on to the Finnish National Archives in Helsinki.
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See that some Wilson & Longbottom machine and loom order books are available at Sheffield Archives - www.sheffield.gov.uk/archives. It is possible you could find some exports to Tampere there.
Also interesting, bearing in mind James Lee's 1841 address, is the name of W & L's foundry - the Nelson Foundry.
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Ebch
Thanks I'll check that out I visit Sheffield on a regular basis.
Steve
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James Lee and his wife Mary stayed at Tampere in the turn of 1850-1860. James probably worked as a Foreman in the Finlayson & Co's cotton mill, which was the biggest in the Nordic countries in that time. The Mill was a very modern, compared to any other mills in that time. Town was then small in 1860, some 3000 inhabitants. In the Mill. there worked 1 627 employees in 1860. The significance of the company was a quite a big.
I am writing history about the mills of Tampere, and I am very interested in James Lee's life before the Tampere period and after it. And of course I am interested in all British experts, who worked here during 1820-1930.
Jarmo
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Hello Jarmo
Welcome to Rootschat. James Lee was a great Grandfather of mine and from what I have found was living in Tampare Finland between the dates 1859 and 1863. He had two children born in Tampere both of whom were christened there with Finnish godparents who we believe were needle manufacturers. Do you have any further info on John and his wife Mary?
Steve
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John Thornley, born 17.7.1860, babtized 23.9.1860, Father M:r James Lee, wife Mary Lee
Mary Ellen, born 21.12.1861, babtized 5.1.1862, James Lee wife Mary Lee.
I tried to check the parish information for people, who moved in 1859, but I did not succeed yet. I check 1863, when they moved out, next week.
Do you know anything about their life before Tampere, and after it?
Jarmo
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Thanks Jarmo
The family consisted of
Father James Lee born abt 1827 Barnsley Yorkshire died abt Sept 1892 Barnsley Yorkshire
Mother Mary Lee nee Thornley born abt 1829 Barnsley died abt Mar 1892 Barnsley
Married 16 Apr 1848 at St Georges Church Barnsley.
Children:-
Ann b abt 1850 Barnsley
William b abt Mar 1851 Barnsley
James b abt Sept 1856
John Thornley b 17 July 1860 Tampare Finland d abt Mar 1904 Sheffield Yorkshire
Mary Ellen b 21 Dec 1861 Tampare Finland d abt Dec 1941
Alice b abt Sept 1866 Barnsley
Margaret b abt 1867 Barnsley
Walter b abt Jun 1868 Barnsley
James the father in the 1851 Census was a Power loom Weaver living at Nelson St Barnsley with his family
1859 to 1863 he appears to have been in Finland ( Tampare)
1871 he was a Power Loom Over-looker living in Barnsley
and from abt 1881 he seems to have finished his days as a Brewers Traveller and Inn Keeper ( Keel Inn Barnsley)
I have been in touch with the Archives in Tampare and as four of the god parents of their children appear to be English it me be that a group of them went over in the first place.
One other question do you know if the Fins issue Birth certificates like we do and if so how do I go about obtaining some? I have found them in the HisKi project but that is all at the moment.
steve
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New information
I checked population register of Messukylä (Sermonvillage in English), which was then neighbour parish of Tampere (From 1877 the area, where mill located was connected to Tampere). In the end of 1850s there began linen mill, which grew quickly. When Finlayson &Co Cotton mill was the biggest, Linen mill was the second in Finland for a long time. They employed four British experts until 1860:
Levy E.
Lee, James, wife Mary, 2 children
Beevers, Josef, S(a)ara, 2 children
Dawson Edwin, Mary 2 children
According to Lars G. Von Bonsdorf, Linne och Jern (Linen and Iron), p.314: Merrick Boyes & Co sent experts from England to Finland. Mr Lee was forced to act to be master of Linen's ret (I am not sure if this is correct term) instead of master Beevers, who had made some mistakes, and was fired. Unsatisfied James Lee wanted to leave Finland for England during the summer 1863. They needed new man, and they promised 3-4 £/week 12 hour/day for a man who came instead Mr. Lee.
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Hello Brianz/Jalmo
Good to see this post revived. I found a few newspaper cuttings re Tammerfors/Tampere. One relates to a patent taken out by James Lee and an interesting article re the need for an English Church in Tammerfors. If either of you would like to pm me with your email address I will happily forward them. My great grandparents once lived in the same street at James Lee. There are also a couple of obits for English people who died in Tammefors.
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The Edwin Dawson quoted in your last post filed the patent jointly with James Lee. Dawson described as Loom Mechanic and Lee as Loom Master. The patent was for improvements in looms for weaving.
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Masters of Linen Mill in the beginning of 1860s (according to Kanerva 1972, p.39)
- John Sudell, executive manager
- Mac Levy
- James Lee, master of bleaching (of linen) department, (in Swedish: bleakmästar)
- Josef Beawers
- Josef Sudell, master of spinning
- Edwin Dawson (also Dorsson in church registers), master of weaving. (in other sources as Mechanic (Finnish: laitosmies) of weaving) Dawson was enthusiastic fisherman. Rapid of Tammerkoski, from where the Mills got the energy felled 17-18 meters between lake of Näsijärvi and lake of Pyhäjärvi.)
- Bookkeeper A. F Calwagen (i am not sure, if he was British)
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Thanks Jarmo ans Ebch
Jarmo do you know if the Fins issue Birth Certificates? And if they do is it possible to obtain them?
Steve
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There are no regular Birth Certificates, if you meant official paper, which was given after christening. But sometimes if needed, pastor wrote a that kind of testimony for legal system.
Of course, church have records for births (also time of christening), marriages and deaths in their books
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Thanks Jarmo
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*17.7.1860 John Thornley god parents were 1) British: John Ballantyre and his wife Elisabeth Ballantyre, 2) British Joseph Beevers and his wife Sarah Beevers. and 3)Finnish Needle factory owner (fabrikören) Viktor Leopold Renfors and his wife Mamsell Amanda Florentina Lagerlöf (marriage 1841). - Renfors died, when he was 52 year old (19.3.1867). Reason of death: Tyfus
Beevers was a workmate at the Linen Mill as you know. Ballantyre is not known yet.
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From Barnsley came also William Nell. He came to Tampere 1867, and he was here almost 25 years. He returned back to England and died there in 1896. He worked as weavingmaster at the Linen Mill.
His wife was Sarah Nell (Greenwood), and they had 5 daughters and 5 son.
Do yo know anything about him?
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Hi Jarmo
No, I did not know anything about William Nell but I do now.
1861 He was living at Smithies, Monk Bretton Barnsley with his father George age 57, a Hand Loom Weaver and his mother Sarah aged 56 and three siblings. William aged 24 was a Power Loom Weaver and married his wife Sarah in Barnsley in about March 1856. She is not shown on the 1861 census as living with the family.
In the 1861 census Sarah aged 24 a Power Loom Linen Weaver is shown as a Lodger also in the Smithies with the family of Abraham Shaw a Coal Miner. Possibly the house was not big enough.
Hope this information helps
Steve
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Jarmo
I do not know if it is of interest to you but I have just found an old email from the Finland National Archives in Helsinki.
It seems that James's son James Thornley Lee had Godparents who were Finnish citizens called Viktor Leopold Renfors and his wife Amanda Florentina Lagererlof.
According to the Tampereen Historia part 2, (Tampere 1984) Viktor Leopold Renfors had a small needle factory in Tampare. This engine shop made various metal products and had 26 workers during 1861. I thought at first James Lee may have had some connection ( work) with them but now I am not so sure.
Steve
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It is possible, that they made some parts to Machines of linen mill or
they lived quite near each other.
Renfors lived in house number 18-19, but I don't know yet where James Lee lived.