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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 02:06 BST (UK)

Title: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 02:06 BST (UK)
Would someone be able to have a look a birth for the above man?  I believe he was born in south Australia to Daniel Sullivan & Mary Halpin.  Mary Halpin came out to Australia aboard the ship 'Hooghly' which arrived in 1846.
Appreciate any help as I have not done any research in Sth Aust. yet.

thanks.
Jane
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 06 April 10 02:47 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

A Big Welcome to RootsChat!  ;D

Can you tell us any more about these people please? I am not seeing anything to fit. No birth listed for Daniel but looking at the names they may well be Catholic and we find in our early history a lot of Catholics did not register their children. They felt baptism was far more important.

There is no marriage listed for a Daniel SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN - there is however this marriage

SULLIVAN Michael full age single father unrecorded = HALPIN Mary Full age father unrecorded 11 Jun 1850 Catholic Church Adelaide Dist Ade 8 196

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 06 April 10 03:05 BST (UK)
From the BISA (in part of a submitted nature but we all find it a great help with SA research)

SULLIVAN Michael residence Gawler Plains, Salisbury, Dry Creek religion RC
married 11 Jun 1850 SA Mary nee HALPIN children Mary Anne 1855, Danl 1857

Cheers Kris  :)

Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 03:23 BST (UK)
Sorry I should have said Michael Sullivan as father - not Daniel!  Thanks for the info. No more children listed?? Where else should I look for Daniel's birth?
What is the last entry?  So...Mary Anne was born in 1855 & Daniel 1857?   I had Daniel as c1862, but it was second hand info. Thanks.
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 06 April 10 03:37 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

This information is submitted so may not be correct either. There are no births registered to this couple (further complicated by another Michael and Mary who did register their births. He was a police officer and they had children Daniel Thomas and Mary Anne born about the same time as the BISA suggests these two were born. She was Mary COONAN)

I wonder if Catholic Archives may be able to help.

http://www.adelaide.catholic.org.au/sites/Archives/

Did Daniel marry in SA?

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 04:10 BST (UK)
I do not know if he married in SA.  Daniel married a woman by the name of Margaret Jane mcCann.  She was born in Vic, so I suspect that the marriage was in Vic.
The Vic BDM website is down at th emoment so I cannot search for Daniel's death cert.
Thanks for your help so far.

Jane
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 04:55 BST (UK)
Marriage in Victoria

SULLIVAN Daniel born South Australia
MCCANN Margaret born Victoria
1885  Reg#6304

Cando


Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:04 BST (UK)
Thank you!
Much appreciated
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:08 BST (UK)
Was at Dartmoor on Friday last ;D

Daniel and Margaret are buried in the Dartmoor Cemetery

SULLIVAN, Daniel    born c1862   7 Sep 1921  59 years
SULLIVAN, Margaret  born c1863  27 May 1947  84 years   


Will find the death regs.

Cando
   

   
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:23 BST (UK)
Nothing matches with the age and year of death but this one is a possiblity

SULLIVAN Daniel
Parents unknown
At Ararat  63 years  1921  Reg#8074

and this one is SA

SULLIVAN Margaret Jane
27 May 1947  84 years  Status Widow  Relative Daniel Patrick SULLIVAN [Deceased husband]
Residence Dartmoor [VIC]   Death Place Mount Gambier   Gre H 713/2230

Cando





Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:32 BST (UK)
There is a headstone
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ausvsac/Dartmoor.htm
The lovely people who take the photographs are happy to email one to you.

Do you need any further info on this family?

Cando
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:35 BST (UK)
Thnaks for the info.  Yes that's the one re Daniel.  I am a Sullivan by marriage and am trying to catch up on the family tree info.  No one seems to know much about the Sullivan family tree!

I knew about Daniel's, but not Margaret jane's.
Thanks for your help.

I would like to find out more about Daniel's sister mary Anne, but SA is a problem with records.

Thanks for the headstone.  No, I think I'm right with this fmaily - for now anyway.
Good luck with your research!

Jane Sullivan
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:41 BST (UK)
There is this marriage

ELLARD
James 26 years  Single  Father Patrick ELLARD
SULLIVAN Mary Anne  22 years  Single   Father Michael SULLIVAN
19 Oct 1878
At St Ignatius Church Norwood   Ade 117/250


Cando
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:42 BST (UK)
WoW!!  This might be my missing sister of Daniel sullivan.  It looks a bit like it, doesn't it?

Thanks somuch.  Can't thank you enough!!

Jane Sullivan
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 05:51 BST (UK)
This looks like her husband's death

ELLARD James F
27 Dec 1879  28 years  Status not recorded  Relative not recorded
Residence Adelaide   Death Place Adelaide   Ade 99/205

aahhh I am having problems with the marriage index CD >:( >:(

Will try again.

Cando



Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 06:08 BST (UK)
Sad if it is, coz that means they were only married for 1yr!

Jane

Thanks again.  Hope you can find Mary Anne's death.

Jane
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 06 April 10 08:38 BST (UK)
There is this marriage

ELLARD
James 26 years  Single  Father Patrick ELLARD
SULLIVAN Mary Anne  22 years  Single   Father Michael SULLIVAN
19 Oct 1878
At St Ignatius Church Norwood   Ade 117/250


Cando


Sorry I suspect this may be the daughter of the other Michael SULLIVAN I mentioned -  The police officer. His children were registered - daughter Mary Anne 21 Sep 1856 Adelaide Dist Ade 7 367. He also had a son Daniel Thomas 8 Apr 1855 5 143. We do need to ensure we do not confuse these families. There is only one Mary Anne father Michael marries in SA and the age fits the other one. (but IF the BISA is correct may also fit with a child of your Michael) I do have to wonder if the years of birth listed in the BISA for your Michael may have been confused with the actual dates of birth for children of the other Michael. (particularly as both mothers were Mary)

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 08:56 BST (UK)
Marriage in Victoria

SULLIVAN Daniel born South Australia
MCCANN Margaret born Victoria
1885  Reg#6304

Cando

Jane I suggest you purchase an image of the above marriage certificate as the names of Daniel's parents would be detailed.  You are probably aware you can purchase online and immediately download
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/index-search?action=purchaseImage

I would guess that you have other information on the SULLIVAN family in SA.

Cheers
Cando

Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 09:25 BST (UK)
These death certificates should list all the children to the marriage.

SULLIVAN Mary
Father Halpin Michael   Mother Unknown
76 years  at Hamilton  1901  Reg#13859

SULLIVAN Michael
Parents Unknown  86 years 
Died at Melbourne West  1901  Reg#14848

[Only Michael SULLIVAN death in Victoria in 1901 - I have also checked South Australia]


Buried at Hamilton Cemetery

SULLIVAN, Mary born c1824  Died 6 Nov 1900 aged 76 years.  Wife of Michael.      

SULLIVAN, Michael born c1813  Died 9 Mar 1901  88 years.  Husband of Mary.

I have a photo of the headstone.  If you would like it please pm your email address.      


Cando
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 06 April 10 09:39 BST (UK)
Hi Jane,

I would also advise the  purchase Daniel's marriage certificate, information contained in certificates is invaluable.  It seems you are aware of Daniels parents names and there is a marriage to match those names. What we do not have are any birth registrations to Michael SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN. We do have another marriage with a wife Mary COONAN in 1854 and several births listed to this couple.

You seemed to be very pleased by the marriage of Mary Anne. In the absence of any birth registrations, it is my concern re the marriage for Mary Anne SULLIVAN to James ELLARD that this may well be the daughter of Michael and Mary COONAN and you may be adding incorrect information your tree. Unfortunately our SA certificates will not list Mary Anne's mothers name.

Cheers Kris  :)

PS: Great find Cando - I had no certain deaths for Michael and Mary in SA.   Purchase of one of these death certs will certainly clarify their children.  (Mary's looks pretty good with the name HALPIN) ;D
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 11:09 BST (UK)
I am stunned by the amount of info I have obtained from you Cando, in such a short space of time.  I too have my doubts about the marriage of Mary Anne Sullivan to James Ellard.  I have spoken to my mother in law who is married to the grandson of Daniel Sullivan.  She seems to think that Mary Anne became a nun, but she is going to check for me.  Not real sure how she's going to do that as I mentioned before, info on this Sullivan family is VERY light on the ground!

Thanks so much.  You have hopefully uncovered some definite facts for my husband's family.  I posted as a long shot, never dreaming I'd get anything back!

This is a wonderful resource to have online.

Jane
Victoria.
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 11:12 BST (UK)
Kris....Mary Halpin's birth will not be registered in Australia as she emigrated here in 1846 aboard the ship Hooghly (from information gained elsewhere).  I have no idea the birthplace of Michael Sullivan.
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: krisesjoint on Tuesday 06 April 10 11:18 BST (UK)
These death certificates should list all the children to the marriage.

SULLIVAN Mary
Father Halpin Michael   Mother Unknown
76 years  at Hamilton  1901  Reg#13859


Hi Jane,

I was talking about this death registration provided by Cando - Mary SULLIVAN father Michael HALPIN

As Cando has said - this certificate should list her children. (and this one tells us this Mary SULLIVAN  had the maiden name of HALPIN.)

Cheers Kris.  :)
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 11:30 BST (UK)
More of Michael and Mary's children.

Deaths

SULLIVAN Bridget
Father Sullivan Michael  Mother Mary  HALPIN
At Ballarat  68 years  1934  Reg#12129

SULLIVAN Catherine
Father Sullivan Michael   Mother Mary  HALPIN
At Hamilton  81 years  1940  Reg#17585

Cando

Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 12:07 BST (UK)
For your family records...a link to the transcribed list of the HOOGHLY passengers
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1846Hooghly.htm

I like to have some 'meat on the bones' info in my family tree. ;D

Cando
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 12:19 BST (UK)
Thanks Cando!
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 12:26 BST (UK)
I noticed the following snippet from the Argus
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/9069336?searchTerm=daniel+sullivan

and then followed by an inquest into Daniel's death.  Deaths in institutions often are subject to inquests. 

Inquest
SULLIVAN Daniel
1921  Ref#939
Cause Heart failure
Inquest Date 8 Sep 1921

Cando








Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 12:56 BST (UK)
Cando,
Is the ref # 939 the number of the inquest carried out?  How do I get hold of the inquest?
I downloaded the info on Daniel having to go back to ararat.
Thanks again.
It's getting complicated. I downloaded the death cert for Mary Sullivan.  I have never heard mention of any  sisters or brother of Daniel Sullivan.  VERY strange.  How can I absolutely know that I am following the right people??

Jane
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 13:09 BST (UK)
The inquest papers are available at the Public Records Office of Victoria.  You have to order them prior to visiting the North Melbourne Reading rooms.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08dq/

The marriage certificate of Daniel and Margaret would give you the names of his parents.  You did say that Daniel's parents were Michael SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN.  Did this information come from a certificate?

Another one of Michael's and Mary's.
SULLIVAN Margaret Mary
Father Michael  Mother Mary  HALPIN
At Hamilton  86 years  1957  Reg#22210



Cando

Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 13:24 BST (UK)
Children of Daniel and Margaret.

SULLIVAN Mary Jane
Father Daniel  Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At SAND    1886  Reg#21720
 
SULLIVAN Joseph William Henry
Father Daniel  Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At Dartmoor  1888  Reg#10642

SULLIVAN Peter John
Father Daniel  Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At Dartmoore  1890  Reg#22130

SULLIVAN Katie Danette
Father Daniel   Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At Dartmoor    1892   Reg#12657

SULLIVAN Michael Thomas
Father Daniel  Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At Dartmoor  1894  Reg#19929

SULLIVAN Daniel Patrick
Father Daniel  Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At Dartmoor  1896  Reg#2753

SULLIVAN Margaret Laura
Father Daniel Mother Margaret Jane McCANN
At Dartmoor  1899  Reg#25994

Cando


Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Tuesday 06 April 10 13:32 BST (UK)
Yes, I have th emarriage cert and it does say that Daniel's parents are Michael Sullivan & Mary Halpin. Could there be more than one set of Michael Sullivan & mary Halpin's running around? Could this be two different families?
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 19:32 BST (UK)
According to the indexes there only appears to be one family.  I would say you have the correct family.

Have found another death in 1901 of a Michael SULLIVAN.  I dismissed it initially because of the age 67 years and at Sunbury.  However there was an inquest.

SULLIVAN Michael
Place Sunbury Asylum
1901  Ref#1038

and the death registration

SULLIVAN Michael
Parents unknown 
At Sunbury  67 years  Reg#11794

Death certificates for those who died in institutions usually have very little or no family information and ages can be inaccurate.    The informant may be a witness at the inquest, staff member [sometimes even porters etc] or the undertaker acting as an authorised agent. 

I wonder if the headstone is just a memorial and Michael is not actually buried at Hamilton.   You would need to contact the Hamilton Cemetery Trust, 44 Gray St Hamilton VIC 3300   (03) 5572 1285 and ask for a search of the burial register.

There is another burial in the same grave as Michael SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN.

SULLIVAN, Leslie b.1898  died  5 Feb 1919 aged 20 years.  Died Hamilton.

Death
SULLIVAN Daniel Leslie
Father Sullivan Michael  Mother Alice WEABEN
20 years at Hamilton  1919  Reg#2016

His birth
SULLIVAN Daniel Leslie
Father Michael  Mother Alice WEAVER
At Hamilton  1898  Reg#11496

Marriage of parents
SULLIVAN Michael born South Australia
WEAVEN Alice born Portland
1895  Reg#673

It would appear that Michael SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN had a son Michael.  Is he noted on Mary's death certificate?  This marriage certificate would give you the names of the groom's parents.

This may be Michael Jnr's death - b. c1862, with mistranscribed mother's surname.

SULLIVAN Michael
Father Sullivan Michael  Mother Mary HARPER
At Hamilton  64 years  1926 Reg#1547

and possibly his wife

SULLIVAN Alice Emma
Father Weaver William  Mother Sarah CONDON
At GLEN  91 years  1961   Reg#15414

If you would like to detail all the information on Mary's death certificate, we can help you search for other members of the family.


So far we have index information for Daniel, Bridget, Catherine, Michael and Margaret and there is another sister Mary Anne who may have been a nun.

Cando

Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Tuesday 06 April 10 20:31 BST (UK)
A quick look at the electoral rolls.

Australian Electoral Rolls
Wannon  Hamilton
1903, 1909, 1914, 1924
SULLIVAN Alice Emma  South Hamilton  HD
SULLIVAN Michael  South Hamilton  Labourer

1931
Wannon  Hamilton
SULLIVAN Alice Emma  26 French Street, Hamilton HD
SULLIVAN Henry  26 French Street, Hamilton  Labourer
SULLIVAN Margaret Mary, Caledonian Hotel, Hamilton  HD. [Could be Michael and Mary's daughter who died in 1957.]

1936. 1937
SULLIVAN Alice Emma  26 French Street, Hamilton HD
SULLIVAN Alice May  26 French Street, Hamilton  HD
SULLIVAN Henry  26 French Street, Hamilton Labourer
SULLIVAN Margaret Mary  21 Brown Street, Hamilton  HD

Fawkner  Gardiner and then Malvern.
1943. 1949. 1954
SULLIVAN Alice Emma  7 Aintree Road, Gardiner  HD

Cando
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Wednesday 07 April 10 00:34 BST (UK)
Hi Cando,

There is a Michael listd on Mary Sullivan's death certificate.  In 1901 at time of her death, he is listed as 41yrs, so I guess that rules out your Micahel Sullivan in Sunbury assylum. It does however lend weight to the other Michael you listed in 1926 at 64yrs of age.

Please excuse my scepticism, but Hamilton is about an hour from where my husband's family settled. I (not my husband) have ever heard tell of other members of Daniel's family.  Could I have inadvertently opened up a hornets nest with my inocent questions?  I want to be REALLY 100% sure of this info before I mention it to any present day Sullivan family memebers!! 

Please tell me what EXACTLY I can do to ensure that I am infact on the trail of the right family.  This info (if correct) will come as a HUGE shock to this family.

I guess I need to inquire re actual marriage certificate of Daniel's parents in SA.  I'll have to look up where I go to do that.  That's my first step i guess.

Thanks again Cando..
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Wednesday 07 April 10 01:38 BST (UK)
I understand your concerns however the information is publicly available and like all research needs to be validated with certificates.  I live in a rural area and am of very mature years, but I am sure there is much information about local families, especially deaths in 1901 and 1921, that I would not know about or expected to know about.

I would think the 1901 death at Sunbury could be possibly be Michael Senr. I did explain about information on death certificates only being as accurate as the knowledge of the informant.  The burial register for Hamilton Cemetery would show whether or not he was actually buried there.  The headstone photograph indicates that the headstone may have been placed after the death of Leslie in 1919.

The research has been based on Daniel SULLIVAN being born in South Australia and the son of Michael SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN.

Other children were obviously born to this couple in South Australia and the death index indicates they were the children of Michael SULLIVAN and Mary HALPIN.  I would think the marriage certificate of son Michael SULLIVAN and Alice Emma WEAVER would be a good starting point to proving the relationship.

The marriage certificate in South Australia will not give you much more information than is already on the index.
Info on SA Certs
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=368744.0
If you wish you can purchase a transcription of the marriage from
http://www.rootschat.com/links/08e5/
All self explanatory.

I would also follow up on Kris's suggestion of contacting the Catholic Archives for Parish records.  The BISA information has given some places of residence of Michael and Mary.

I am sure other forum members may have some further suggestions.

I have sent you a pm. At the top of the page you will see

Welcome back, janeoz123, you have 1 messages,1 are new.

Click onto the 1 messages to read my pm - personal message.

Cando

Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: janeoz123 on Wednesday 07 April 10 01:56 BST (UK)
Cando,

I am very grateful for the help you have given me.  Daniel's marriage certificate clealry lists his parents as Michael Sullivan & Mary Halpin.
although you have said i will not glean any additional info, on a matter as important as this, I felt I should order a marriage certificate form SA. I will be impatiently awaiting its arrival.
There are older relatives of my husband's that I could question re Daniel's fmaily, but I don't want to say anything until I am sure of what I have started.

Thanks again your for help.

Jane
Title: Re: Look up required in South Australia - Daniel SULLIVAN c1862 COMPLETED
Post by: cando on Wednesday 07 April 10 02:58 BST (UK)
Jane I fully understand.

Good luck :).

Cando