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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Ladybird310 on Tuesday 05 May 09 21:48 BST (UK)

Title: can anyone suggest....
Post by: Ladybird310 on Tuesday 05 May 09 21:48 BST (UK)
Can anyone suggest what the best site to use might be for building your family tree, when family members are predominantly from Scotland & Ireland.   I have most of the (limited) info I've gathered so far on GenesReunited - but the search engine on there isn't really yielding anything more - mainly geared towards English & welsh records.   Have also had a look at ancestry.co.uk as I thought that might be a better source for Irish ancestor info - flagging up 1 maybe so far...   I understand that I probably need to do lots of alternative researches, and I'm at that start of a long journey - it would be good to have the info in the most appropriate place.   Hope to hear your ideas.  Thanks.  Ladybird  :)
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 22:15 BST (UK)
Hi Ladybird  :)

How far back have you managed to go on your Scottish side?

There is a guide here on RC for background on Scottish research www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html. It is harder to research for the 20th Century, get's easier (to a point) the further back you go!

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: Ladybird310 on Tuesday 05 May 09 22:24 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,

I have found my great grandfather - William Gourdie - b 26/11/1892.   I can't find details of his marriage to Ellen, who's surname may have been Strachan or McGuffin???

William's father - I can't find - other than on William's birth certificate.   His name was John Gourdie (he may have had the middle name 'Kinsman', which my grandad also had.    John married Maria Ojeda from Spain - they married in Gibraltar according to William's birth certificated, and came to Bellshill.   

I'd love to find John & Maria, and go further back  :)

Thanks for your reply.   Angie
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: genjen on Tuesday 05 May 09 22:39 BST (UK)
John and Maria are in Lesmahagow in the 1901 census. Have you seen the entry for them?

I can't see the original image but An*****y has them transcribed as Gowdie. If you buy some credits on Scotlands People, you will be able to get at the image.
Or I can post details if you need them.
Jen
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 22:40 BST (UK)
Hi Angie and Jen  :)

This looks like Maria's death entry on Scotlands People, www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk:

1951   Maria Josefa Gourdie/ Ojeda, 94, died in TARBRAX, LANARK   

This certificate is available to view on line at SP as it is before the cut off for on line images of 1958 for deaths. The certificate will give you her parents' names and confirm whether John husband was alive or deceased at the time of her death and his occupation. Also address at death and who reported her death.

All of the above info will help. Even with my own Spanish Mama, I have no idea how to trace records in Gilbraltar but hopefully someone can help in this area.

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: genjen on Tuesday 05 May 09 22:48 BST (UK)
They obviously took a circuitous route home because their first three offspring were born Gibraltar, Dublin and Kildare. I now have them in Lesmahagow in 1891 so I think that the best bet is most definitely a few credits for SP. You can then get at that death entry as well.

Regards,

jen
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 22:54 BST (UK)
Re the surname of William's wife Ellen, I can only see one death for an Ellen (searching *el*en to pick up on variants) near Williams birth year +/- 10 yrs:

1978   Alice Helen GOURDIE/ STRACHAN, age 84, in GLENROTHES, FIFE

With that first name of Alice, might explain why you have not been able to find the marriage:

1918   William Gourdie and Alice E Kennedy STRACHAN in BELLSHILL   , LANARK

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:02 BST (UK)
Jen, from the 1891 entry, John looks to have been in the army. Explains the stay at Gilbraltar and the children's birth places I would imagine.

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: genjen on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:07 BST (UK)
Yes, I hadn't noticed that but it would certainly explain why he was in so many places. The transcription looks a little strange.
"Soldier Col Sugt Vol Ins" - Presumably, Colour Sergeant, but I'm not sure about Vol Ins? Any ideas?
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:13 BST (UK)
It would certainly help to see the original image for that one. They have obviously used abbreviations for occupation and with Ancestry's usual transcription accuracy rate...it could be any regiment! Given John's age by then, Vol. - Volunteer.....?

I can't see a birth entry for John on IGI at www.familysearch.org, however this is the only family in Dunbog, Fifeshire in 1851 which is where John shows as his birth place in later censuses. John is showing a birth year of c. 1852. This is his likely family in 1851 in Dunbog. Mother's maiden name may explain the name KINSMAN:

Robert Gourdie 32, farm labourer, b. Abernethy, Perthshire
Jean Kinsman 30, b. St Andrews, Fifeshire
Sarah Gourdie 11, b. St Andrews, Fifeshire
Mary Gourdie 9, b. St Andrews, Fifeshire
Ann Gourdie 7, b. Cameron, Fifeshire
Isabella Gourdie 5, b. Cameron, Fifeshire
William Gourdie 3, b. Dunbog, Fifeshire
Peter Gourdie    1, b. Cameron, Fifeshire
Janet Ferguson 37, farm labourer, b. Kinross, Kinrossh

Address: Dunbog Farm, Dunbog, Fife

Monica

Added: The 1861 census entry with John in the household. Family transcribed on the index I am looking at as Goendie:


Robert Goendie 44
Jean Goendie 42
Sarah Goendie 21
Ann Goendie 17
Isabella Goendie 15
William Goendie 13
Peter Goendie    11
John Goendie 9, b. Cameron Fifeshire
Joseph Goendie 7
James Goendie 5
Jean Goendie    3
Robert Goendie 1

Address: Upper Pratis, Largo, Fifeshire


   
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:24 BST (UK)
Some other people researching this Gourdie/Kinsman line:

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/SCT-FIFE/2000-06/0962162638
http://boards.tiscali.ancestry.co.uk/thread.aspx?mv=flat&m=1&p=surnames.gourdie
www.leeds.ac.uk/classics/heath/ForbesJackson.pdf

There are a number more on google Angie  :) Just search for "robert gourdie" +kinsman

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: genjen on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:25 BST (UK)
1861 - Ancestry transcribes them as Goendie and they are in Largo.

Robert 44,
Jean 42
Sarah,21
Ann, 17
Isabella 15
Peter, 11
Joseph, 7
James, 5
Jean 3
Robert, 1
William 13,
John, 9

Sorry I am not giving full details - it is so frustrating not being able to see the full image!

Jen

Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:31 BST (UK)
Sorry Jen, our posts crossed over  :P I've just added the 1861 entry on the back of the 1851 one earlier. Didn't get the red warning note  :-\
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:34 BST (UK)
Angie

To let you verify the census info Jen and I have been posting on the Gourdie line, this looks like John's death entry on SP:

1925   John Kinsman GOURDIE, age 73 in BLANTYRE, LANARK

Parents' details should be included if known to the informant to let you confirm what we have found so far.

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 05 May 09 23:41 BST (UK)
Jen, thought of having a go on the 1901 census for Alice but there are too many to be confident about any of them. And then again she could also be down as Ellen...

Angie, Ellen's parents' names will show on her marriage cert. This will let you trace her back with confidence  :)

Monica
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: Ladybird310 on Wednesday 06 May 09 07:47 BST (UK)
Hi Monica & Jen,

Can I just say a HUGE thanks for all your info - I'm really excited to start looking into this, and can't wait to get to work and then home again tonight to get stuck in.  I have a few credits left on SP so can use them wisely now - and also will follow your other links and suggestions.   Really appreciate this, and hopefully one day I'll be better at this, and will be able to help others in turn  :)   Catch you later.  Angie x
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: Ladybird310 on Saturday 09 May 09 22:20 BST (UK)
Thought I'd give a wee up-date of how I'm getting on  :)

After searching various censuses (censii?) I found John & Maria, their children and children's places of birth, including William - my g grandad.   Found Maria's death cert on SP, and now have her parents names - looks like Ogustin Ojeda, and Maria Garcia.   John was in the army - through matching family trees, have been in contact with my mum's cousin, and he has just emailed me wonderful pictures of John & Maria - v formidable looking characters  :D

John's parents appear to be Robert Gourdie & Jane Kinsman (as opposed to Jean as transcribed by anc).   Comparing the census info to public family trees - census info shows John as being 1 of 10 children.  Other info shows another 2 children - Alexander Gourdie & Thomas Murray Gourdie.   I can't find records of these....   Again, I've come across info going back further, but not found records to verify:

Robert's parents - William Gourdie c 1772, and Isabella Murray c 1786

I found Robert's death registration - 1901 census - died in the Poorhouse, Markinch Fife!   Any idea how he would end up there, particularly with so many children...?

Also - one of his sons, Robert also, (brother of my gg grandad John) was killed in an accident at Moss Pit, Rameldry in 1873, aged 13 or 14 - sad.

Have also picked up on John's death registration, and the marriage details of William & Ellen (Allice Ellen Kennedy Strachan) known as Nelly   :)

Plenty to get my teeth into, and this just one strand of the picture.

Angie  ;D
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 10 May 09 12:49 BST (UK)
Hi Angie

Looks like you are making huge progress. Just picking up on a couple of your points. These look like the births of the two children of Robert G and Jane Kinsman you referred to:

1. ALEXANDER GOURDIE  Birth:10 SEP 1862 Largo, Fife - mother Jean showing as Hinksman
2. THOMAS MURRAY GORDIE  Birth: 09 JUL 1864 Crail, Fife

Don't be concerned re name variants for Jean/Jane, very common to see different documents with one or the other being used. This site is great for picking up on name variants www.whatsinaname.net  In Scotland at this time, first name variants were commonly used. Some are more obvious than others, some not so (Peter v. Patrick; Agnes v. Ann etc.)

Not sure if you have yet come across this info on your general searches on the Gourdie line going back to William G. and Isabella Murrary:

http://boards.tiscali.ancestry.co.uk/surnames.gourdie/1.3.5.1/mb.ashx

Monica  :)
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: Ladybird310 on Tuesday 12 May 09 20:42 BST (UK)
Hi Monica,

Thanks again for your continued help.   I'm amazed at what you and Jen have been coming up with  :)   where did you find those births?   I feel like such a novice, but hopefully I'll get better as I learn more.

Maybe you could help me out with something else please?

I'm interested in trying to locate the grave of g.g. gran - Maria Ojeda Gourdie.  She died Feb 12th 1951 in Tarbrax aged 94.   I have no idea whatsoever on how/where you find out about burial records!   Can you give me any advice/pointers?   

Thanks & hope to hear from you soon.

Angie
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 12 May 09 21:07 BST (UK)
Hi Angie

Have a look at this link www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/BirthDeathMarriage_Citizenship/Death/Burialgrounds/
You will see at the bottom of the page contact details for the Cemeteries & Crematoria  Registrar. Maybe a good place to start. You have Maria's exact death date which will help in the search.

Where Maria died may not be an indication of where she was actually buried. Other things to bear in mind, which may have affected the choice of cemetery, is the family's religious denomination (for example, were they Roman Catholic).

Fingers crossed you find something.

Monica  :)
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: Ladybird310 on Tuesday 12 May 09 22:21 BST (UK)
Thanks Monica - I have emailed, so now to wait and see if they can help.   Will keep you posted  :)

Angie
Title: Re: can anyone suggest....
Post by: kirky66 on Sunday 29 November 09 16:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Ladybird,
I noticed you are related to the Gourdies,well this is to let you know I am descended from John Kinsmans Gourdies brother Peter Murray Gourdie through his daughter Helen Anderson Gourdie who married Archibald Carmichael Kirk here is a photo of Helen with her Husband Archie
Title: Ladybird
Post by: angelamary3 on Saturday 03 April 10 12:00 BST (UK)
Hi Angie
My name is Angela Gourdie - my great grandmother was Maria Ojeba - my father's grandmother.  I know a little bit about through my father.  He lived with her - his father was Robert Kinsman Gourdie.  I would love to see the photos of her.  It seems she was a character and has a very interesting history.  My email (*)

Ange

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Title: Re: GIBRALTAR
Post by: angelamary3 on Monday 05 April 10 10:36 BST (UK)
Hi
My Great grandmother was Maria Ojeba (her father's name was Augustin Ojeba and Mother - Maria Garcia) and she married a Scots solider called John Kinsman Gourdie - who was in the Army.  Is there anyway knowing anymore about her family? Angela