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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Inverness => Topic started by: GordonSandison on Saturday 03 April 10 13:57 BST (UK)
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I am looking at the OPRs for Boleskine, in particular a series of births between 1793 & 1811. The mother is listed as Betty McDonald (or occasionally McDugal or McDowal). The father is consistently recorded as "Donald MacDonald alias MacNeil". I also found another birth listed in the same date range in the same parish with the father listed as "John MacDonald alias MacNeil".
Does anyone know what this McDonald alias MacNeil would mean?
My initial thought was that perhaps Donald was illegitimate and these were the names of his parents but when I found John McDonald alias McNeil this seemed less likely.
If anyone out there can shed some light on this it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Gordon
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Hi GordonSandison,
Welcome to Rootschat :)
When you found John Mcdonald what made you think his name was less likely to do with his parents.
Could you please provide a little more detail about what you know
Teaurn
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Gordon, they're still possibly using their patronymic here, Donald son of Donald son of Neil, although its a bit late, possibly they had little use for the surname if they had one. Many people can still recite their "sloinneaidh", patronymic, but this is of no use in a formal situation, a tenancy for example, when a surname was needed for the rent book....Skoosh.
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Hi Teaurn,
All I really know is that Donald MacDonald alias MacNeil was a butcher in Bunoich, Boleskine who had 6 children baptised between 05/05/1793 & 22/07/1811.
I initially thought the alias may have been due to illegitimacy and that MacDonald and MacNeil were the surnames of both of Donalds parents. The discovery of John, I felt, made this less likely as one "accident" with no marriage is pretty common but two would surely usually indicate a longer term relationship and result in a marriage (unless of course John & Donald were twins!). ???
Thanks
Gordon
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Hi Skoosh,
Thanks for the reply. I've just gone and done a bit of digging around on patronymics in Scotland as I had not come across them on any of the other branches of the family who are all from similar areas (or the north of Scotland) and many of which I've tracked back to 1700 or so. It's definitely a possibility and I did find this interesting article
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~johnmc46lc/PART%201HIDDEN%20FAMILIES.html
which is more to do with RC families in upper Banffshire but it does explain that many aliases were in the form "family name" alias "patronymic" which would suggest that Donald & John McDonald may have been sons of Neil McDonald.
I'll get back to the IGI and see if I can find any results that match that theory.
Oh one question - is sloinneaidh gaelic for patronymic? Google drew a blank on it!
Thanks again
Gordon
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Gordon, my Gaelic dictionary gives, "act or mode of tracing ones pedigree" the link you give is interesting as a Laird of Grant had been encouraging his tenants to take the Grant surname, very awkward when half the district has the same name. Surnames ware a late arrival in the Highlands, the folk knew very well who they were without one and a patronymic might go back centuries and told much more about a family than a surname. If people were cotters perhaps and never appeared on a Rental there would be no pressure from a factor to adopt one. Sons of a family would need one if joining the army or if their status rose on attaining a lease. Donald Macdonald's being a butcher (another innovation) in a country district, would surely by 1800 have had a surname to go with it! slainte...Skoosh.
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Hi Gordon: is this your family? I am also descended from these Macdonell/ Macdonald alias McNeills. I thought that the "alias McNeill" is a hereditary patronymic i.e. denoting a descent from a particular Macdonell or Macdonald ancestor. However I haven't been able to find a recognised branch of the Glengarry Macdonells or perhaps Keppoch Macdonalds who used this hereditary patronymic, so perhaps my theory is incorrect! Would like to compare notes with you and learn of your descent. Kind regards, Peter Grant (London UK / Dunedin New Zealand)
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Gordon, I think that they're Macdonalds but ,there being so many in the parish, they have distinguished themselves as Macneil, this could be from a very recent Neil Macdonald ancestor, The presence of the Fort would have encouraged a variety of trades to service the Military, a butcher being one.....Skoosh.
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Hi Gordon: is this your family? I am also descended from these Macdonell/ Macdonald alias McNeills. I thought that the "alias McNeill" is a hereditary patronymic i.e. denoting a descent from a particular Macdonell or Macdonald ancestor. However I haven't been able to find a recognised branch of the Glengarry Macdonells or perhaps Keppoch Macdonalds who used this hereditary patronymic, so perhaps my theory is incorrect! Would like to compare notes with you and learn of your descent. Kind regards, Peter Grant (London UK / Dunedin New Zealand)
Hi Peter,
I'm not totally sure if Donald MacDonald alias MacNiel was my Great x4 Grandfather!
I do know that my Great x3 Grandfather was a Donald MacDonald born in Boleskine c1796. Acording to his death certificate (1862 Knockbain, Ross-shire) his parents were Donald MacDonald and Margaret MacDonald. It was searching for this family that lead me to the MacDonalds alias MacNeil. There were only 4 Donald MacDonald births's in the OPRs for Boleksine in the 1790's and off these one has a father named Donald and a mother with maiden name MacDonald. This is Donald MacDonald alias MacNeil and Betty MacDonald. So it's not a certain match as the mothers maiden name is Betty rather that Margaret but it is possible that the informant on the death certificate got this detail wrong.
How are you related to the MacDonald alias Macneils?
Regards,
Gordon
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Hi Gordon: checked my records and I have the Donald Macdonald (or Macdonell) as married to Betty "Macdougall" (see 1793 christening entry for their son John.
The Macdonald or Macdonell alias McNeils seem to have been a family of two generations of butchers in Fort Augustus, no doubt supplying the soldiers in the Fort. They are mentioned as early as 1761, perhaps the chr entry for Donald above: 1761 Febry 8th This day John McNiel alias McDonell Butcher in Fort Augustus had a child baptised named Donald". In that entry you can see the hereditary patronymic in use: the family of Macdonells was known as the "McNeils". Presumably an earlier Macdonell ancestor was a Neil Macdonell known for a brave deed - or an evil one...!
My connection to this family is as follows:
Margaret Macdonell alias McNeill (probably a daughter of the above John) m 1789 at Fort Augustus to William Mackenzie from Dores. Moved to Lewiston in Glenurquhart and d 1846.
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Catherine Mackenzie b 1795 Bunoich near Fort Augustus, m 1826 at Glenurquhart to Peter Grant. d 1861 Forres.
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William Mackenzie Grant b 1827 Marnoch, Banffshire, d 1903 Elgin. Sony Bathia Ross of Strathrusdale, Rosskeen:
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William Grant b 1847 Evanton, Kiltearn, Ross-shire, who emigrated to Dunedin New Zealand in 1879 - my great grandfather
Kind regards,
Peter Grant
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Gordon Sandison has the right take on aliases. They appeared most particularly among RC families but may also have been adopted among families perhaps with Jacobite sympathies who were trying to avoid repression after the '45.
The link given is actually to a copy of an article published by Stuart Mitchell in two parts in the Journal of the Aberdeen & North-East Family History Society, vols 66 and 67 (1988).
Aliases are generally not the same as patronymics and their use tended to die out late in the 18th century. You should definitely check the Catholic birth records on ScotlandsPeople if aliases are turning up - you may find CPR and OPR entries for the same person. They get into the OPR where the local clerk was keen to gather up every local soul irrespective of fundamental beliefs. If you are anywhere within reach of Edinburgh check also to see if the Catholic archives have any Status Animarum records for relevant parishes (a kind of rollcall or census carried out by the priest).
Regards
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Thanks for the tips. I'd had a look at the Catholic registers on ScotlandsPeople but hadn't heard of the Status Animarum records and will check that out next time I'm back in Edinburgh.
Cheers
Gordon
ps I notice your user name is Cabrach, my paternal granmothers family (Kellas) were from Cabrach and were crofters at Torniechelt for several generations.
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Gordon, my 3G grandfather, Charles McDonald (1807-1879) lived at Largue and was a gamekeeper there for 50 years. His son John (1835-1889) wandered around as a shepherd for a long time but eventually settled back in the Cabrach around the late 1870s as a gamekeeper (I think he may have taken over from his father). John married the widow Isabella Gordon in 1896. Isabella (1832-1924) was of course Isabel Kellas born at Tornichelt, daughter of Hugh Kellas and Isobel Grant. Unfortunately, John fell off his horse and was killed in 1889. Isabella was I believe known as Auld Bell and ended her days at the cottage next to Aldivalloch that was known as Auld Bell's.
So, there is more of a link than you may have imagined.
Ian
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I am interested in your discussion of aliases. The case I am dealing with involves an alias that is not a patronym. McNab means "son of the abbot" which makes it an occupational surname. McInab is extremely rare! I have found no evidence of Nab or Inab being used as a forename. How would you interpret the following:
Inverness-shire or Cromdale And Inverallan, Moray-- April 12, 1708- "Alexander McDonald alias McInab parochiner [parishiner] and Katharine Stuart in Inveraven [Banff] attested of her being free of scandal, declared their purpose of marriage and consigning their pledges to observe order were married May 18, 1708."
Why is he "alias McInab"?
Scotland’s people has only five marriage records that contain the surname McInab, and four birth records that contain McInab. One is for Katharin McInab whose parents are given as ALEXR. MCINAB and KATHARIN STEUART. She was born 12 May 1709, christened 16 May 1709, at CROMDALE AND INVERALLAN in Moray.
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Hi Tropiconsul,
I'm not sure, I never came to a conclusive answer on the MacDonald alias MacNeil.
I would not have thought that the fact that McInab meant son of the abbot would stop t being used in a similar way - perhaps Alexander was son of Donald who was son of an Abbot. I'm just guessing though!
Gordon
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Tropiconsul, that part of the country was quite fond of alias's, many of those who used to have Gaelic names in the Grant rentals, later took the name of Grant. Black's surnames has John Makinab as sevitor to Grant of Freuchie in 1647. The ordinary folk only needed a surname for legal purposes, which was not very often. The names thy were known by in the district, where there were hundreds of Grants, probably accounts for the use of an alias. Skoosh.
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When I see a reference to Strathspey does that indicate Cromdale or is it the whole length of the river Spey? I have found two families that are possible connections to Lewis McDonald of New York.
Ludovic MacDonald was a younger son of Allan Roy MacDonald, 7th Laird of Morar. Burke's Landed Gentry (2001) does not include the dates but it shows "ksp in America". I believe dsp means died without issue. What does ksp mean? Of course Morar was in the west coast. The MacDonalds of Morar appear to have been Catholic and Jacobite.
The other possibility is the Alexander McDonald of Cromdale who may have had a connection to the Grants among whom we find several named Ludovick.
I am looking for the ancestors of Lewis McDonald born 1709 in Inverness-shire. In 1730 he emigrated to New York and became a wealthy farmer in Bedford township, Westchester county. His grave marker is inscribed: "Sacred to the memory of COL LEWIS MCDONALD ESQ and Sarah [Rumsey] his wife being a native of North Britain borne at Strathspey 1709 and departed this life 24 July 1777." He was a fervent Anglican. Throughout the first half of the eighteenth century, the Church struggled along with support of an English institution called the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts. In 1744 Lewis McDonald petitioned the Society for assistance in building a church and obtaining a minister.
In his will he left over 5,000 pounds to his children and grandchildren. Lewis must have belonged to a propertied family in Inverness in order to purchase the farm in New York. In 1755 "William & Sarah Woolsey, executor and executrix of the will of John Woolsey, late of Bedford, Westchester Co., NY, deceased, Sold to Lewis McDonald of Bedford for 400 pounds, in the 28 year of George II - A certain tract … of land … within … Bedford." Sarah Rumsey was born to a prominent family in Fairfield, Connecticut in 1701. Any ideas?
http://www.sprague-database.org/genealogy/getperson.php?personID=I301783&tree=SpragueProject
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I'm sure you've discovered this but there is no sign of your McDonald in ScotlandsPeople. Strathspey is a generic term and is not the name of a parish, but your man does not show up anywhere in Scotland (mark you there are many parishes where the OPR records had not even started in 1709). He is not even in the Roman Catholic records.
A subtle point, but his origins would not have been Anglican. He might have been from a family that belonged to the Scottish Episcopal Church, the principal church between the reign of the Roman Catholics and the ultimate rise of the presbyterian Church of Scotland. The Episcopal Church in Scotland is quite separate from the Church of England, has various separate practices, and has the honour of having been the source that legitimised the founding of the Episcopal Church in the USA. These are all now part of the worldwide Anglican congregation, but are not 'Anglican'. Anyway, if he was Episcopalian that is another reason why he might not be in the Old Parish Registers since the registers were set up by the established church.
On aliases. No one has a definitive answer to them, but they appear most commonly at a time when for religious or political reasons (or both) it could be wise to be vague about your name. In any case surnames were something that still were not of much consequence unless you were a landowner. Most of them in the highlands were simply adopted as a sign of fealty to get the protection of the clan chief (though that was already on the way out at the start of the 18th century and collapsed after the 45). Your McNab may not have any bloodline connection to any son of any abbott (though we would hope for better from the McNab of McNab).
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Thank you for your well considered reply. I was using Anglican in a generic sense. I am aware that the Episcopacy of the Episcopal Church in the USA derives from the Scottish Episcopal Church by reason of the fact that the clergy of the Church of England were required to swear an oath of loyalty to the king. I have done a fair amount of research into the history of the Episcopal Church in New York and Scotland because it plays a prominent part in my McDonald family history. At the Sprague Project website you will find that Daniel McDonald , D.S.T., D.D. (1785-1830) was the first president of Hobart College.
"History of Ontario County New York" (compiled by Lewis Cass Aldridge, 1893) provides: " The movement for the establishment in the State of New York, at some point west of Albany, of a college of liberal culture under Episcopal auspices first found expression in a resolution adopted, upon the suggestion of the originator of the movement, the Rev. Amos G. Baldwin, by the trustees of Fairfield Academy, April 10, 1812, petitioning Trinity church, New York, for a grant of funds to that end. This petition was not favorably received, but in the following year, acting upon another petition suggested by the Rev. Mr. Baldwin, the corporation of Trinity church founded in connection with the Fairfield Academy a Theological School. In 1818, however, Bishop Hobart, recognizing the importance, if not necessity, of having in the western portion of his great diocese a school of liberal culture, as well as a theological school, communicated to friends in Geneva his plan to transfer the Theological School from Fairfield to Geneva in connection with a “college and printing press,” to be established there. In 1821 the transfer was made, the principal of the Theological School then being the Rev. Daniel McDonald, D.D, the steadfast coadjutor of Bishop Hobart in this educational movement."
Daniel is my 3rd great-grandfather and the great-grandson of Col. Lewis McDonald of Bedford, New York. Trinity Church in New York City is where many of the McDonalds are buried, including Alexander Lewis McDonald (1772-1865), husband of Elizabeth de Hart Bleecker. He served as Commisioner of Deeds and is interred in the Anthony Lispenard Bleecker vault. Anthony also was involved in New York's historic Trinity Episcopal Church, situated across from Wall St. He became a vestryman there in 1785. He served until 1807 when he became a warden for five years. He purchased the family vault in its churchyard in 1790 where Bleecker family burials took place well into the 20th Century.
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Folks, Highland gentry who were Catholics were barred from posts in Government or the army, so the Episcopal church became the likely refuge, once restrictions on that church were lifted.
There were Catholics left in pockets in the Highlands, the Cromdale area was one of these. Strathspey applies to Speyside below Aviemore, higher up it becomes Badenoch. Skoosh.
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Thank you, Skoosh, cabrach and, others for your interest in this topic. I believe we can have a lively discussion on this issue. My situation is that I am located in Texas and I have no access to materials in Scotland other than those published on Scotland's People. OPR materials for this era in Inverness are minimal. I have documentation for the descendants of Lewis McDonald but only inferences for his origins in Scotland. However, it seems to me that his arrival in New York in 1730 at the age of 21 with a substantial amount of cash, and no indicatation of mercantile activity presumes that he was a scion of a propertied family and that he may have had reason to avoid the notice of officialdom in the colony. Cash money was extremely scarce in the colonies and in Scotland. His father may have been attainted in the 1715 rebellion. We know that Lewis was an Episcopalian and that the members of that church were to be found among the peers and landed gentry of Scotland and that they were, with the Roman Catholics, supporters of the Jacobite cause. Col. Lewis appears to have never been estranged from his eldest son who was ejected from Westchester county for Loyalist sympathies.
Title: Recantation of Lewis McDonald,of Bedford, Westchester County, New-York
Citation: American Archives Series 4, Volume 4, Page 0247
Author/Presenter: McDonald, Lewis, Jr.
Type: Deposition
Date Presented: 1775-12-12
Where Presented: Stamford, Connecticut, North America
Date Composed: 1775-12-12
Where Written: Stamford, Connecticut, North America
Document ID: S4-V4-P01-sp06-D0230
RECANTATION OF LEWIS McDONALD.
I, Lewis McDonald, Jun., of Bedford, Westchester County, in the Province of New York, having lately taken the office of Justice of the Peace, under the Ministerial party in this Province, in which I have endeavoured to support their measures, and also violently opposed the military preparations made in consequence of the directions of the honourable Continental Congress, and in many instances have, both in principle and practice been inimical to the liberty and rights of America; for the whole of which conduct I am sincerely sorry, and ask the forgiveness of this Committee, and all the inhabitants of my bleeding country, whom I have injured by my misconduct, either by my private conduct, or in the execution of my office of justice of the peace; and promise that I will suspend acting in that office without the consent of the Committee of the town of Bedford. Which above confession and promise I freely set my hand unto, in Stamford, in Connecticut, desiring the same to be published in one of the New-York papers.
Lewis McDonald
December 12, 1775.
Early Connecticut marriages as found on ancient church records --
STAMFORD, FAIRFIELD COUNTY, Connecticut (See Book IV) -- While Episcopal services were held in Stamford as early as 1726-7, the records of St John's Episcopal Church begin April 15, 1754. The Rev Ebenezer Dibble DD was rector from 1747 to 1797. Among the marriages recorded:
Lewis McDonald, late of Bedford, residing in Greenwich, & Clay Feris of Greenwich Feb. 14, 1788
Laws of the state of New York: passed at the sessions of the Legislature-- AN ACT to allow Lewis McDonald to return to and remain within this State.
Passed the 29th of January, 1789-- Preamble. Whereas it has been represented to the legislature by the petition of Lewis McDonald that he the said Lewis McDonald is desirous of having permission to return to this State. Therefore, Be it enacted by the People of the State of New York represented in Senate and Assemblyand it is hereby enacted by the same That the Same Lewis McDonald is is hereby permitted to return to and remain within this State unmolested any law to the contrary notwithstanding.
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Afraid the fallout from the '15 is not my area. I'm more connected to the McDonald peasantry. However, I have passed this on to a man who might know.
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My Campbell ancestors are all journeymen or peasants. Fortunately the OPR for Dull in Perthshire is fairly complete and I can track them back to the early 1700's.
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Here is another example of an alias that I find difficult to explain. Kiar is a surname that is very rare in the OPR. I have "Alexr McDonald alias Kiar in Dalnamein & Christian Robertson in Dalinturuaine" [Blair Atholl, Perthshire]
on a marriage document of 12 Oct 1734.
I have also found Margaret Kiar baptized Dec 1728 to 'Donald Kiar or Grant' and Jannet Grant in the parish of Cromdale and Inverallan of Inverness/Moray. I have not yet discovered a Grant in my family tree, but I have read that they are thick on the ground in Cromdale where they may have had some association with a McDonald alias McInab who is a possible ancestor.
Here's a pretty kettle of fish. Have you any thoughts?
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TC, Ciar is descriptive of a family, means dark, like Ban means fair! Skoosh
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I have had a DNA test and find my closest matches include 7 MacNeils out of 20 matches at that level. These matches are distorted by very uneven participation from various clans. The MacNeils are particular well represented while the MacKintoshs are poorly represented. Putting that to one side it is a strange result for a Glenurquhart MacKintosh. I have a discontinuity in the family records from when my GGGrandfather lived in Skye and the reason may lie there. I wondered if there was a MacNeil connection to the Urquhart / Fort Augustus area though. I think the castle was garrisoned by Ilsemen in earlier times. I found a reference to the chief of MacKintosh owning land across the river from Lewiston at one stage. I presume that is the area called Borlum. I guess that is why there are a group of MacKintosh families in the Glenurquhart area.
I realise from the above discussion no-one has a definite historical theory to the MacNeil alias but I hoped to keep the thread going in case a theory emerges.
Cheers
John Mc alias JohnXXIII
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Perhaps we need to start a new thread on the subject of “Scottish nicknames or aliases and what they can teach us. “ I find the subject fascinating. The problem is that we lack the context that would inform our generation how families and individuals were identified and regarded within their communities. Oral tradition might provide the answers, but too often the oral tradition has been lost in diaspora or compromised by poor interpretation. You only need to consider the possible origins of the Campbell surname which has been translated from the Gaelic as meaning “wry mouth” or “crooked lip”. It could be that this prominent war-leader of the clan had a physical deformity, or reacted to too much salt in his porridge, or was perpetually constipated or discontent. The more likely explanation is that the clan’s war-leader was contemptuous of his enemies and featured a sneer that stretched from his lip to his ear. The last possibility seems to me the more likely one to be recorded honorably for posterity.
I am reminded of the Sioux tribal leader whose name has come down to us as Young-Man-Afraid-Of-His-Horses [Tȟašúŋke Kȟokípȟapi] (1830–1900). The name does not seem to indicate a prodigious warrier, but in the original language it identifies him as the son of a warrior who so terrified his opponents that they fled in terror at the sight of his painted ponies.
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On the subject of the Grant surname, there was a very good reason for the Laird insisting on tenants taking the surname Grant; and that was that all "Grant" males and men of the clan septs were liable to answer the call to arms in return for the protection of the clan. Some Lairds would only issue tacks (leases) to Grants and some would only allow Grants to become ministers and teachers. There are a number of references in 18thC Kirk Sessions records to "X Grant, alias ..." Presumably it depended on how volatile the times were!
Jenny
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Jenny, I believe the MacGregors had a conference in Perthshire to vote on whether the whole clan should adopt the name Grant. Their own name being proscribed and the tribe using Drummond, Campbell etc'. In view of the many connections between themselves and the Grants, the adoption of the name was agreed, one of these new Grant lairds being appointed head of the whole name. The laird of Grant's reaction to this must have been interesting. The idea was dropped.
I should think that the adoption of the surname Grant by the lairds own tenants was just a sensible move to avoid the chaotic situation of giving leases to people who used a patronymic.
Skoosh.