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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: bullywee on Saturday 03 April 10 11:42 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information on the Sturgeon branch of my family. Unfortunately I have very little information on them. I would be grateful if I could trace where in Ireland they came from.
They are:
Thomas Sturgeon b.@1867 in Ireland (I know he married Mary Ann Fagan in Glasgow according to the forms of the United Presbyterian church)
His parents:
David Sturgeon b.@1825 in Ireland - d. 1884 Glasgow
Mary Brown b.@1825 in Ireland - d. 1893 Glasgow
And David Sturgeon and Mary Browns Parents:
John Sturgeon and Elizabeth Williamson
David Brown and Mary Baxter
I have absolutely no information from Ireland on this family and would appreciate any help.
Thank you,
Bullywee
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Full civil registration started in 1864 (non-Catholic marriages from 1845), so you may locate details for Thomas's birth in that, for earlier details you would require church records.
The best match I see for his birth on the index is :
Name: Thomas Sturgeon
Registration district: Lurgan
Record type: Birth
Quarter and year: 1868
Volume: 6 / Page: 878
many births from this timeframe are listed on the IGI (www.familysearch.org)
See : 2 Minute Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html) for details on the BMD index, ordering certs etc..
Shane
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Also in the Griffiths Valuation on askabout ireland. There is one David Sturgeon
Co,Down Townland Bleary Parish Tullyish.
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Hi
I think that the Bleary/Lurgan Thomas Sturgeon may be the son of David Sturgeon and Sarah Whiteside, This couple has eight children. Did your Thomas have any siblings?
Regards
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Hi,
The only siblings of Thomas, that I know of, are Mary Ann Sturgeon b. @ 1855 in Ireland, dying in Glasgow in 1897. She married a Thomas Wright in Glasgow in 1876.
And John Sturgeon b. @1848. He married a Jane Clark (Location Unknown) dying in 1899 in Glasgow.
This, I suspect, means that the family moved from Ireland to Scotland between 1867 and 1876.
Thank you for taking an interest,
Bullywee
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Hi,
David Sturgeon and his wife, Sarah, did have a daughter Mary Ann in 1865 but there is no record of a John and the family were still in Ireland in 1879.
Regards
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I have just discovered that doing a search in familysearch.org that there were 3 children born to a John Sturgeon (Brother of Thomas) and Jane Clark.
They are:
Mary b. 03/03/1869, Down, Ireland
Elizabeth b. 13/11/1866, Waringstown, Down, Ireland
Samuel b. 21/08/1873, Lurgan No.1, Armagh.
I am struck with the Lurgan link given the previous posts.
Also Thomas lived next door to a Samuel Sturgeon (b. @1851 Ireland) in Glasgow in 1891. Although they are different ages. I am note the common name.
Regards,
Bullywee
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Hi,
John Sturgeon married Jane Clarke in Lurgan Civil Registrars Office on 11 Sept 1860.
Regards
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Hi,
If you google, Ros Davies, and look up the Sturgeon name you will find what appears to be other members of the families we have been discussing.
Regards
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Hi Kingskerswell,
Thank you for your assistance and your time.
I looked at Ros Davies's site and found John and Mary. However, I am a little confused. Perhaps you could explain for me the entry. I'm not very clever.
It states:
"John STURGEON . Donaghcloney regd. Waringstown; husband of Jane Clarke; father of Mary b. 3 Mar 1869."
Does this mean John Sturgeon was registered as a parishioner in Waringstown at the time of Mary's birth?
Also, I would be interested as to where you found John and Jane's marriage entry. That is a spectacular success. I appreciate that very much.
One last thing. I have just discovered a Samuel Sturgeon, brother of John, was born in Ireland between 1850 - 1855. Information was gained from census records and a marriage record.
Again, thank you. You have all been a great help.
Bullywee
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It states:
"John STURGEON . Donaghcloney regd. Waringstown; husband of Jane Clarke; father of Mary b. 3 Mar 1869."
Does this mean John Sturgeon was registered as a parishioner in Waringstown at the time of Mary's birth?
These details were taken from birth certificate of Mary Sturgeon born 3 Mar.1869 at Donaghcloney, which lists here parents as Joseph and Jane (nee Clarke) and registration of birth at Warngstown (or within Waringstown registration district?). On the right side of the entry is the sournce 'CR' civil registration.
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Hi,
Marriage comes from a subscription site, Emerald Ancestors.
Regards
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Thank you all for your help.
Regards,
Bullywee
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Hi Bullywee,
I am also related to this branch of the Sturgeon family.
Have you unearthed any more info on the Irish side since your
last post?
I'ts so difficult to find any info before they came to Scotland.
Cheers
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David and Mary Sturgeon of Bleary, Co. Down had son William baptized Sept 7, 1846 at St Matthias, Knocknamuckley, Co Armagh.
John Sturgeon who married Jane Clark lived in nearby in Ballydougan, Co. Down and he and David had father David Sturgeon. This town is classified as Waringstown or Donaghcloney depending on the transcribers and births are registered in Lurgan.
There are several Sturgeons in the immediate area going to Knocknamuckley. Samuel and Frances Sturgeon of Ballydougan have Mary Jane in 1850; Richard and Mary have children starting with Hiram in 1845, then Mary Jane and Hannah. William and ELiza have Wm 1850 in Bleary, John and Mary Ann have John 1839 Ballydougan, James and Mary have Mary Ann 1839 Ballydougan, Francis and Sarah have Nancy in 1846, James and Mary have William in Ballynagarrick in 1848.
The David Sturgeon b. 1844 m. Sarah Whiteside also had a David as a father, but they seem to live slightly farther away.
I don't see any Samuels being baptized at that particular church in the 1850's.
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Hi Kat,
Thanks for the info.
You're all so helpful on this site. It's great.
Will go & look at my tree now & try to
figure out where they all fit in.
Thanks again,
Marie
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Hi Kat,
Thank you for the information. It makes very interesting reading. Can I ask you to tell me what is your source for this information? Is the data lifted straight from parish records or would I be able to find it on line?
Does the source give the maiden name of Mary Sturgeon, who was the mother of William?
Given my inexperience of following the family trail back to Ireland any advice would be gratefully accepted.
Regards,
Bullywee
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Hi Brian
Marys maiden name was Brown. Her parents were David Brown & Mary Baxter, but i don't know where they lived or died.
David & Mary Sturgeon had a least 6 children including William, but there may be more i don't know of.
They include:
John born 1840 County down, died 1899 Glasgow. Married to Jane Clark
David born 1844 County Down. Married to Sarah Whiteside. Don't have any other info
Sarah born 1849 Ireland, died 1912 Glasgow. Married to James Rowan
Samuel born 1851 ireland, died 1893 Glasgow. Married to Georgina McCoombe
Thomas born 1867 ireland, died 1913 Glasgow and as you know was married to Mary Ann Fagan.
Hope this will add a bit more to your tree.
Marie
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Forgot to say.
All this info is taken from birth/marriage/death certificates available on Scotlandspeople.gov
Marie
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Hi Marie,
Thanks. You have given me a couple of brothers and sisters of Thomas I did not know.
Perhaps I can return the favour.
Thomas also had as a sibling:
Mary Ann born around 1855 in Ireland. She married a Thomas Wright and died in Glasgow in 1876. I think she was a "character", useless at that!
I have transcribed some of her poorhouse applications below for you
Mary Ann Sturgeon – Poor relief application
16/07/1880 D-Hew 17/224 page 59559
Name: Mary Ann Sturgeon
Address: 3 Prince Edward Street, Crosshill
Age: 25
Place of Birth: Ireland
Religion: Protestant
Married in Govan 07/06/1976. St Ninians, Episcopalian Church, Glasgow
Occupation: Housework
Description of Disablement: Young Children
Husband: Thomas Wright, Carter. Born – Ireland
Children: Elizabeth Jane 3 ½. Born – 6 Prince Edward Street, Crosshill
William Thomas 8 months. Born - 6 Prince Edward Street, Crosshill
Daughter of David Sturgeon, Weaver and Mary Brown. Both Living in Strathbungo.
Says her husband is drinking and redusing to support his family.
Refused and referred to her husband who is ablebodied and with whom she lives.
Mary Ann Sturgeon – Poor relief application
22/06/1896 D-Hew 17/416 page 21883
Name: Mary Sturgeon
Address: Young’s Land, Pollokshaws
Age: 40
Place of Birth: Co. Armagh
Religion: Protestant
Parents: David Sturgeon, Farmer and Mary Brown both dead
Married 02/06/1876. St Ninians, Episcopalian Church, Glasgow
Occupation: Cleaner
Partially Disabled
Husband: Thomas Wright, Carter, whereabouts unknown since Thursday last: born Ireland. Son of James Wright, Gardener and Elizabeth Lamb. Family Elizabeth, 19. Born Prince Edward Street, wife of Thomas Brown, moulder, One Child resides 29 Govanhill Street.
Family:
William 17 Moulder Single Born – Campbell’s Back Land 3/- to 4/- per week
Sophia 13and 11 mths Milkgirl Born – Campbell’s Back Land 2/- per week
Mary Ann 12 Born – Campbell’s Back Land
Thomas 8 Born – Campbell’s Back Land
John 6 Born – Campbell’s Back Land
Applies for relief
23/06/1896
Mary Sturgeon or Wright
671 Pollokshaws Road C/O Lister
Aged 40.
Born: Co. Armagh
Protestant
Deserted?
Housewife and Cleaner
Daughter of David Sturgeon, farmer, and Mary Brown. Both dead
Husband – Thomas Wright aged 42, carter. Protestant. Whereabouts unknown. Son of James Wright, gardener and Elizabeth Lamb. Both dead.
Married at St Ninians, Episcopalian Church, Glasgow 02/06/1976.
Family:
Elizabeth. 19 yrs and 3 months. Born 28/03/1877 at 10 Prince Edward Street . Wife of Thomas Brown, moulder. One child. Resides at 29 Govanhill Street.
William. 16yrs and 8 months. Born 10/10/1879 at Campbell’s Back Land. Single. Apprentice moulder 4/6 per week. With applicant
Sophia. 13yrs and 10 months. Born 07/08/1882 at Campbell’s Back Land. Goes with milk. 2/- per week. With applicant
Mary Ann. 11yrs and 11 months. Born 09/07/1884 at Campbell’s Back Land. At school
Thomas. 9yrs and 3 months. Born 14/03/1887 at Campbell’s Back Land. At school
John. 7yrs and 3 months. Born 23/03/1889 at Campbell’s Back Land. At school
Residences:
At present house and address Govan for 17 years per assessment roles
Certified in Good health
Settlement – Govan
Applies for relief. No means. In no society. Was ejected from her house last Saturday. A drunken useless character. Husband called to give her money last Saturday but found her drunk. Staying at present with a neighbour.
Refused.
I hope this is of interest to you,
Bullywee
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Excellent!!!
What other records do they have at the Mitchell library?
Marie
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Hi Marie,
I also found Samuel on in the records
Samuel Sturgeon – Poor relief application
11/10/1886 D-Hew 17/298 page 83567
Name: Samuel Sturgeon
Address: 13 Cavendish Street
Age: 33
Place of Birth: Co.____, Lurgan
Parents: David Sturgeon, Occupation - Labourer (Dead)
Mary Brown, residing at Edminston’s Land, Strathbungo
Religion: Protestant
Wife: Georgina Henderson, (aka. McComb). Born Sandgate Street, Ayr. Parents: James Henderson (Carpenter) and Mary Hill. (contrary to marriage certificate which gives parents as Thomas McComb, shipwright and Mary Neill) Both dead.
Married in Govan 07/12/1976 by Rev. Cameron
Children: David, 8 years 11 months. Born: Crossmyloof Square 24/11/1877
Mary Jean, 6 years 9 months. Born: Campbell’s Back Land, Strathbungo 15/01/1880
Wife applied for relief.
Residences:
At present address Govan -3 Months
Prince Edward Street, Govan - 3 Months
Campbells Back Land, Govan - 1 Year and 3 Months
Aulds Land, Crossmyloof, Cathcart - 4 Years and 1 Month
Campbell’s land, Govan - 1 Year and 6 Months
Crossmyloof Square , Cathcart - 2 years and 6 Months
Prior to his marriage he lived with parents at 3 Prince Edward Street, Govan for 7 Years.
“Saw his mother 23/10/1886 who confirmed his residence before marriage”
Certified: Pneumonia
Settlement: Ireland
Husband to Infirmary. Wife 3/- per week
10/11/1886 Poorhouse not Cared for (not in)
15/12/1886 Wife to poorhouse 19/11/1886. Left 17/12/1886. Husband in Royal Infirmary
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And Samuel's children
David Sturgeon – Poor relief application
31/01/1893 D-Hew 17/374 page 6217
Name: David Sturgeon
Address: Young’s Land, Strathbungo
Age: 15
Place of Birth: Crossmyloof Square, Cathcart
Date of Birth: 24/11/1877
Parents: Samuel Sturgeon, Occupation - Gardener (Dead)
Georgina Henderson (aka.McComb) Whereabouts unknown for 6 years
Religion: Protestant
Reason for application: Deserted by parent
Trade: Nil
Wholly or partially Disabled: Wholly
Description of Disability: Youth
Previous application by parents: D-HEW17/298 Page 83567
Application for relief – Father died on the 14/01/1893. Grandmother who is supported by family applied for relief.
Settlement: (2/6 per week. “Consult Doctor about his eyes” $4139)
14/12/1893 transfer to children’s roll
11/12/1907 Poorhouse for treatment $95863 In 02/12/1907. Out 20/10/1908
08/02/1927 Southern general $311298 In 15/01/1927. Out 17/01/1927
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Mary Jane Sturgeon – Poor relief application
08/02/1893 D-Hew 17/374 page 6215
Name: Mary Jane Sturgeon
Address: Young’s Land, Strathbungo
Age: 13
Place of Birth: Campbell’s Backland, Strathbungo
Date of Birth: 15/01/1880
Parents: Samuel Sturgeon, Occupation - Gardener (Dead)
Georgina Henderson (aka.McComb) Whereabouts unknown for 6 years
Religion: Protestant
Reason for application: Deserted by parent
Trade: Nil
Wholly or partially Disabled: Wholly
Description of Disability: Youth
Previous application by parents: D-HEW17/298 Page 83567
Settlement: Govan (2/6 per week and Clothing)
12/07/1894 – Removed from Role. Gone to service
Some family eh!
Regards
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Hi Brian,
I've been trying to find out what happened to Georgina, wife of Samuel and the mother of these poor children whom she deserted.
I've been unable to find a census or death record after she left the poorhouse in 1886.
She's a bit of an enigma as there are no records of a Georgina Henderson or McCombe born in Ayr around 1855. I can't find a marriage of her supposed parents either.
Have you been able to find out anymore about her after she disappeared and left her family behind?
Cheers,
Marie
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Hi Marie,
When I first discovered the information above I looked for the elusive Georgina. Unfortunately, I had no luck. I searched under Sturgeon, McComb and Henderson.
I looked for her birth, death or even another marriage. All without luck.
It is a shame that I could not find her. My curiosity will have to be unsatisfied. So I guess I will never know...unless you have a stroke of genius of course.
Regards,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
I found a marriage for a Georgina McComb (not a very common name in those days) in 1895 to Charles Murray.There is a Register of corrected entry on the document which states she was a bigamist and was jailed in 1896 as she was still married to a Thomas Grainger in Linlithgow whom she married in 1886. Could be this our elusive Georgina?
If so, what a bad lady!
I'm planning on going to the GROS in Edinburgh in the next couple of weeks. Will see what i can find and let you know.
Marie
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Hi Marie,
Well done! I think it is probably her.
Perhaps she was a serial Bigamist. That would explain the confusion over her name and perhaps her "fictional" parents and birth details.
I am becoming more an more interested in this woman even though she is a peripheral figure in our family history. Sometimes that happens.
Only problem is what name to use to look for her death and 1901 census.
Regards,
Brian
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Hi Marie,
I meant to say that we now have two jail birds in the family.
William Fagan b.1821 in Haddington was in Duke Street prison in 1871 census.
I will send the reference to your e-mail address if you like.
He was a Civil prisoner. I believe that this title included fine defaulters.
I am intending to visit the National archives to try and find out more sometime.
Regards,
Brian
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What a family indeed.
Yes, that would be great if you can send what you have to me direct.
Marie
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Hi bullywee & marie163
Im also related. I’d researched back to John Sturgeon m Elizabeth Williamson and David Brown m Mary Baxter. I knew there was a Thomas Sturgeon, brother of John Sturgeon, however had not got round to researching this and thanks for the sister Mary Ann info. I have not looked at Thomas death certs etc. Do you have info on his occupation and family? I also have no follow up info on brother William Sturgeon baptised 7 September 1846 at St Matthias, Bleary (rootschat KatC 20 Nov 2010). Do you have any info on William & family?
Could you clarify who are Thomas Sturgeon (b.1868) parents.
Thanks
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Hi Haggis,
Welcome to the Sturgeon clan. Hope i can be of help and i'm sure Bullywee
will fill in any missing links you have on your tree.
Thomas Sturgeon born 31 may 1868 in Co.Down Northern Ireland.Parents were
David Sturgeon born 1818, Northern Ireland.
Spouse, Mary Brown born Ireland.
I've not really followed up on William. How are you related to him?
Have you looked on www.scotlandspeople.gov for census and BDM records?
Sturgeons are quite easy to find especially from 1880 onwards as from then on most of them came from Ireland and settled in Glasgow, mostly the Pollokshaws area.
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Hi Marie163
I'm related to William through brother of John Sturgeon b.1839, d.23 Nov 1899 Glasgow. I have details of all that lineage and others if you are interested I can email. Who are you related to?
I am still a bit confused about Thomas b.1868 parents as being David Sturgeon and Mary Brown.
I wonder if ‘your’ Thomas (who married Mary Ann Fagan) parents are David Sturgeon and Mary Brown. In the 1881 census, David Sturgeon and wife Mary Brown lived in Pollokshaw, Edmistons Land with Thomas Sturgeon aged 22, son, General Labourer (birth year was abt 1859) and also Thomas Sturgeon aged 15 grandson, Apprentice Moulder (birth year abt 1868) was with the family. I wondered whether Thomas (grandson) had come over from Ireland with his grandparents, in which case his parents were likely David Sturgeon and Sarah Whiteside who remained in Ireland. Thomas birth year ties up with Thomas Sturgeon, son of David Sturgeon and Sarah Whiteside born 31 May 1868 (also rootschat - kingskerswell 3 April 2010).
I do not think another Thomas (grandson of David Sturgeon and Mary Brown) whose parents were John Sturgeon and Jane Clarke, was temporarily staying with his grandparents during the 1881 census as baptism and death certs have his birth year consistent 1863, in which case he would have been abt 18 years old in 1881 census, (rather than the grandson Thomas who was 15 years old).
If ‘your’ Thomas noted his parents were David Sturgeon and Mary Brown and siblings were Mary Ann and John, it may have been that he has said this as he lived with that family when he came over from Ireland, he treated them as ‘parents and siblings’. What is the source of siblings Mary Ann and John?
Regards
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Hi Haggis,
Unfortunately, I get confused when talking about the Sturgeons. Too many of them share the same forenames.
The Thomas who was married to Mary Ann Fagan was most definitely the child of David Sturgeon and Mary Brown. Source was his Death and marriage certificates.
Interestingly, he got ran down by wagons in 1913 at a coal pit in Rutherglen"
"Cause of Death - Deceased was about a train of wagons when the locomotive came upon the train and began pushing; by some means which could not be ascertained he got among the wagons, and 13 wagons of the train passed over him. He was aware that the locomotive was coming to the pit earlier than usual, and apparently he had not heard the whistle as it approached."
I have to admit that I believed that the "Son" mentioned in the 1881 census was this Thomas, thinking it is unlikely that David and Mary had two sons called Thomas. I believed quite simply that the age was wrong. Perhaps there is another explanation but this seems the most likely.
I considered the possibility that there were two David and Mary Sturgeons living in Glasgow who were born in Ireland.
My argument would be that I know that the David and Mary Sturgeon on this census were his parents and not a similarly named couple as the poorhouse record (shown above) of their other son Samuel states his parents address as Edmiston’s land. (11/10/1886 D-Hew 17/298 page 83567)
Given that I do not have any solid proof for Thomas’s birth date, I am reliant on census records and other certificates. Thus, I find that his birth year seems to be quite consistent. For example:
He is living with his mother at Young’s land (next door to Samuel) in 1891 and his age is recorded at 28 = birth 1863.
Age at time of 1895 marriage 28 = 1867
1901 census age was 34 = 1867
His age at death was recorded as 46 in 1913 = 1867.
I do, however, understand your scepticism as an 8 year differential does seem large.
As for the Grandson, I assumed him to be the son of John Sturgeon and Mary Clark. We know he came to Glasgow as he died there. Also in 1881 he was not living with his parents who were residing with their daughter Mary at Campbell’s Back Land Pollokshaws Road.
There is a possibility that he is the son of William. However, I have not been able to find any other information on William except for the christening date and location kindly posted by Kat above.
The source for the Thomas’s Siblings Mary Ann and John were death records stating the names of their parents as well as, in Mary’s case the poorhouse record above.
Can you tell me a little bit more about your link to the Sturgeons as my detail does not quite match yours. I am always open to correction.
I would be happy to share resources with you. If you are interested feel free to PM me with an e-mail address to contact you.
I am sure that you, Marie and I working together will fill in the many gaps in this tree. Marie seems a wee bit cleverer than me.
Regards
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Hi Bullywee,
Not cleverer, just nosier. Typical wummin!
;D
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this is the david sturgeon of bleary in 1857
David Sturgeon 40 Weaver
Mary Sturgeon 40
Sarah Sturgeon 19 Weaver
John Sturgeon 17 Weaver
David Sturgeon 15 Weaver
Samuel Sturgeon 12
Mary Anne Sturgeon 6
Thomas Sturgeon 4
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Thanks Davey for taking the time to reply.
Can you tell me the source of this information?
I am a wee bit concerned about the dates. However the names look right.
Regards,
Bullywee
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througth the church records at knocknamuckly
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Thank you Davey,
I think looking at the ages of the parents that this is probably my family.
My two worries are their birth years of some childten which vary from other records.
If I could be sure that the mother,Mary Sturgeon, was called Brown before her marriage.
Would you be able to give any advice on this?
You have been very helpful.
Thank you