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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: jmo12 on Thursday 01 April 10 12:34 BST (UK)
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I have failed to find a birth certificate at GRO and am hoping that my Great Grandmother was Christened at Wrexham so that I can confirm her parents names etc..
Details are:
Mary Ann(e) EDWARDS b. 1863/4 Brymbo, Wrexham.
I think her mother's name was Margaret (Edwards or Jones or Owens) and her father's name was possibly John Edwards, Thomas Jones.
She was living with parents John and Margaret Edwards in 1871 along with her siblings in Mount Pleasant Inn, (Pentre) Broughton. And in 1881 they were in Pentre Row, (Pentre) Broughton.
If someone could lookup the relevant register I would be very grateful.
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there is a birth mary ann edwards 1862 oct quarter wrexham
kerry
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just looked agin and there is at least 3 mary ann edwards born in 1860's in wrexham
kerry
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Hi Kerry
Yes there are several Mary Ann Edwards births in Wrexham 1862/3/4 but I have not found one with the parents that I require. That is why I hope there is a baptism recorded with the parents I require.
Thanks for your time
John
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Hi John,
Who did Mary Ann/e marry please and have you obtained her marriage certificate as this should give her father's name and occupation?
Posting the info below to assist others in the search :)
1881 Pentre Row
RG11/ 5516/19/31
John Edwards wid 70 clerk
Edward " 19 coalminer
John "15 "
Mary Ann " 18 housekeeper
Louisa Eliz. " 10 sch
John " grandson 1 b.Broughton
Unless stated born Brymbo.
1871 Mount Pleasant Inn, Cerney
RG10/5656/12/17
John Edwards H mar 60 publican
Margaret " wife 33
Margaret " daur 11
Edward " son 9
Mary Anne " daur 7
John " son 3
Louisa Elizth " daur 7mths
All born Wrexham
Is this John in 1861 living ? Gyfnnes, Brymbo.
RG9/4277/42/1
John Edwards H unm 50 farm 50acres b.Brymbo
Mary Sweeney unm 30 dairymaid b.Ireland
Hugh Hughes unm 40 labourer b.DEN
Mary Jones serv 21 b.Brymbo
Margaret Jones daur 1 b.Brymbo ???
This would appear to show Margaret to be the child of John and Mary :-\
Do you know the family's religion? There were lots of non conformist chapels in the area and the baptism registers may not have survived.
Have you tried contacting Wrexham Register Office to see if they can help locate the correct birth?
http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/life_events/bereavement/register_office.htm
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1901 census there is a mary ann edwards b abt 1860 with husband robert edwards ??? in brymbo denbighshire wales with children robert d edwards and william ???
kerry
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Hi
Thanks to Maidmarion and Kerry 1212 for their responses.
I can add the 1851 census info (to that stated previously) as follows:
Living at Cappers Edge, Brymbo, a farm of 60 acres, John Edwards was living with his mother.
Margaret Edwards Hd Widow 76 Farmer of 60 acres Brymbo
John Edwards Son UnM 40 " son "
Ann Davies Serv " 38 House Serv Denbigh
David " " 25 Farm Lab Llangollen
Mary Ann had an illegimate son, John Owens Edwards (my grandfather) b. 18.01.1880 and kept him at least until Apr. 1881 but by 1891 he had been adopted and living with a Edward and Catherine Williams in Brymbo.
Why did Mary Ann allow her son to be adopted after keeping him for at least the first 15 months? Did she die(I have not found a DC)?Did she marry (I have checked some MCert), and if she did why did she not keep Mary Ann?
As you say,in 1861, it does seem that Margaret Jones, 1 is the daughter of John Edwards and Mary Jones, Housekeeper. I thought that in 1871 this same Margaret Edwards 11 was the dau. of John and Margaret (did she have two names Mary and Margaret or was in 1861 was it an enumerator error). I cannot find a MC for John and Margaret Edwards but there is one for John Edwards and Mary Jones.
I do not know the religion of the family.I do have a BC for Mary Anne's youngest sister, Louise Elizabeth b 1870 and her parents are John Edwards and Margaret Edwards nee Owens. I think that possibly Margaret Owens married a Thomas Jones, had a daghter Margaret in 1859/60, split up, Mary/Margaret went to work for John Edwards and then they had a family???
Thanks for any help.
John
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Hi
So your Grandfather is John, listed in 1881 as Grandson, mother Mary Ann Edwards so it's possible that the name "Owens" came from his father or indeed his grandmother/step grandmother's maiden name. ???
I suppose we can speculate as to why John Owens was adopted out......if she married perhaps her husband may not have wanted to take on her illegitimate child.
I haven't been able to locate her death or find her in 1891 either :(
Have you confirmed John Edwards' death by certificate or looking for a burial? There are a couple of likely deaths registered between 1881 and 1891. Perhaps you could also see if he left a will.
There is a Margaret Jones Edwards death reg
Wrexham Dec 1/4 1872, 37yrs :-\
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Hi jmo12,
Your family are very complicated ;D
Have you ordered the birth cert for Margaret Jones born c.1860? This may prove interesting!I believe the GROs checking service will cease in April but you could apply to Wrexham and state fathers name and Brymbo as pob.
Why do you think Margaret Owens married a Thomas Jones please?
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Hi
Yes my grandfather is John listed as grandson. I have found a John Owens, neighbour of Mary Ann, who I strongly feel is the father. My grandfather's name on his BC is John Owens Edwards following the practice of giving an illegitimate child the unnamed father's names as forenames.
I agree as to the reasons why John was possibly adopted but am puzzled that I cannot find her DC or a marriage for Mary Ann.There are some marriages in the 1880's for Mary Ann Edwards but I do not think they are the correct one.
Yes I have located a probable DC for John Edwards in 1883 (Wrexham, Jun 11b 220) when he was 72.
Also Ihave obtained the DC for Margaret Jones Edwards(5/10/1872) which is correct i.e. her husband is given as John Edwards, she is 37 and she lived at Mount Pleasant, Cerney. All correct. Her name suggested to me that she was married to a Jones and either, he died or they split and she wished to carry the name onfor their childrens sake?,and then she cohabited /married John Edwards. That is why I want to find out whether my grandmother is the child of a Jones/Margaret or John Edwards/Margaret.
I hope I have not confused any possible helpers with some of this information and let me restate that my request is that for someone with access to Wrexham Church Records, to please lookup baptisms for 1862/3/4 for a Mary Ann(e) Edwards with a mother Margaret Edwards/Jones and father John Edwards or Thomas? Jones.
Thanks
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Hi maidmarion
From the 1861 census there was a Margaret Jones, 1 ,listed as dau. of Mary(Margaret?) Jones, housekeeper and , possibly, John Edwards. I noted that the housekeeper was listed as married. Was she married to a Unknown Jones, the father of her child? I found a marriage of a Thomas Jones to a Margaret Owens in Wrexham in 1857. If this was correct, they could have had a child, Margaret in 1859/60, separated, Margaret destitute goes to work as housekeeper for John Edwards which takes us to 1861. Possible !!
Good Hunting
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Hi
I don't think you have confused us too much! I just felt we needed some clarification as to names etc as looking for a baptism in the Brymbo area inc non conformist chapels is a task in itsself but with out confirmation of parents names...well its a nightmare ;D
I would try Brymbo and Broughton firstly rather than Wrexham St Giles.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/index.html
John's will could give you lots of info and so could a MI.
Good luck :)
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Please forgive me I hadn't noticed that Mary Jones servant was married. :-[
Perhaps "daur" refers to her daughter rather than John's and that Margaret Edwards in 1871 is a different child ???
Modified
If she was John's child you (to an unknown mother,) you would have expected her to have appeared above servants on the census :-\
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Hello jmo12
I couldn't see a baptism for a Mary Ann(e) in Brymbo around that time :(
Broughton baptisms don't start till 1901 >:(
I couldn't look in Wrexham baptisms, someone else in the records office was looking at that film.
Paul.
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Hi Paul
Many thanks for your time and effort. Will keep on searching and hoping that my 'Mary Ann(e) will be found!
Good hunting
John