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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => England => Hampshire & IOW Lookup Requests => Topic started by: DarrenMW on Wednesday 31 March 10 13:47 BST (UK)
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I thought I'd found her born in Portsea 1879, and traced her back 4 generations, only to find upon double checking that she looks to have died in 1883 ::) Bet I'm not the first to have frustratingly doen that.
I am keen the roots of Harriet, or anything about her mysterious mother who later remarried to a 'Weaver' and had a second daughter - Ellen Mary Weaver (m.Alfred Helbrough London 1902 and lived in Camberwell)
I know all about Harriet in later life once her and Thomas McAlister settle in Lambeth, London
Many thanks
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Hi Darren,
Let's see from where we can try to unravel this ...
Marriage 8 Mar 1903 St Barnabas, South Lambeth
Alfred William Helbrough, 21, Bachelor, Motor Mechanic, 194 Wandsworth Rd, father William Helsbrough (deceased), Piano Forte Maker
Ellen Mary Weaver, 19, Spinster, 194 Wandsworth Rd, Father John Weaver, Boiler Maker
Witnesses T Mc Alister and H McAlister
(your Thomas and Harriet, I suppose)
So Harriet's mum's second husband was John Weaver it seems, and Ellen Mary was born ca. 1884.
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Tati rides to the rescue! Wonderful to see you again my friend!
I was SO frustrtaed, i sat up till 4 am last night becuase I really thoguht id found Harriet and then i found her father Bailey dying young....then to spoil it, it seems the Harriet i was banking on dies at age 13 so cant be her.
Thanks for your info,....you are correct and I am certain my great grandparents are the 'T & H McAlister' that witness Ellen wedding to Helbrough.
'Harriets mum' (who was known to all as Granny Weaver) had a a daughter Harriet Bailey who in 1900 maried my Great Grandfather Thomas McAlister.
then all we know is that Granny Weaver remarried a Mr.Weaver and they a daughter called Ellen Mary.
Quite when the switch from Bailey to Weaver occurred, no one knows and that is one thing I'm trying to ascertain here, along with anything about Harriet Bailey (my Great Grandmother) history.
Thanks Tati
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I'm not sure whether you have all this or not.
1891 census:
RG12/868 130 31
Portsea, Hampshire
41 Surrey St
2 rooms occupied
John Weaver, head, 48, Boiler Maker, b. Lancashire Liverpool
Ellen, wife, 38, b. Hants Southampton
Ellen M, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
John Davies, visitor, (can't read age, could be either 2 or 20), b. Lambeth London
Marriage Mar 1882 Southampton 2c 8
John Weaver - Ellen Bailey
Possible Ellen in 1881? (a widowed servant)
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=6841171
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Thanks Tati...I had NOTHING or Ellen or anything Weaver, so that's wonderful..thanks!!
Having Ellens mum (also, Ellen!) should help me trace Harriet...any sign of her?
Thanks so much
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There are 2 Harriet Bailey births that I can see:
Harriet Mary Bailey
Mar 1878 Southampton
Harriet Mary J Bailey
Mar 1879 - Portsea Island (dies Jun 1892 Portsea)
I suppose yours is the first one then - just wish I could see her on the censuses!
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yeah, the 1879 Portsea is the young lady I traced back to the late 1700's last night, because i found her mother 'Mary Brothers' married to a 'James Bailey' who died aged 26, thereby making me think she was widowed and then likely our girl...but she died in 1883...whata waste of 6 hours and several cups of cocoa!
Thanks for the Ancestry link, looms like the Southampton girl is going to be our one.
Now the hunt really begins to find her somewhere else :)
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Interesting that the 'Davies' visitor is from Lambeth, as that is where both sisters Harriet McAlister (nee bailey) and Ellen Helbrough (nee Weaver) settle down.
The McAlister children, including my grandmother, were (as far as I know) born and certainly raised in Lambeth)
I'm not sure whether you have all this or not.
1891 census:
RG12/868 130 31
Portsea, Hampshire
41 Surrey St
2 rooms occupied
John Weaver, head, 48, Boiler Maker, b. Lancashire Liverpool
Ellen, wife, 38, b. Hants Southampton
Ellen M, dau, 7, scholar, b. do.
John Davies, visitor, (can't read age, could be either 2 or 20), b. Lambeth London
Marriage Mar 1882 Southampton 2c 8
John Weaver - Ellen Bailey
Possible Ellen in 1881? (a widowed servant)
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1881&indiv=try&h=6841171
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I've been searching for a possible Male Bailey to Ellen marriage between 1871 and 1881 and liked this one at first sight (among a large number of possibles, though):
Sep 1877 Southampton 2c 71
Albert Henry W Bailey to possibly Ellen Murrey
Well, there was an Ellen Murrey born ca. 1853 Southampton, and what's more she was in service in the household to James and Constance Steel in 1871 = same household where I found widowed Ellen Bailey in 1881.
An Albert Bailey (no midle names) dies age 25 Jun 1880 Southampton. Can't promise he's Harriet's dad but he's a candidate ...
...
I was hoping to find little Harriet with Ellen Murrey's parents in 1881 but unfortunately she's not there.
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Heading into meeting,...back in 30 mins..
i was on Freebmd cross checking surnames from Southampton born Ellen's married later on to Baileys....
Ellen was aREALLY popular name in the 1870's!
Thanks a million, i'll be right back :)
Darren
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yeah, i like this too. the age matches with the 27 years old when at Steel residence, but is off when compared to the 1891 census when with John W eaver....i know these things happen though, and i like the extra secondary match of the ages from the 1853 Ellen Murrey matching the 1881 'Steel residence' one.
be right back....meeting
I've been searching for a possible Male Bailey to Ellen marriage between 1871 and 1881 and liked this one at first sight (among a large number of possibles, though):
Sep 1877 Southampton 2c 71
Albert Henry W Bailey to possibly Ellen Murrey
Well, there was an Ellen Murrey born ca. 1853 Southampton, and what's more she was in service in the household to James and Constance Steel in 1871 = same household where I found widowed Ellen Bailey in 1881.
An Albert Bailey (no midle names) dies age 25 Jun 1880 Southampton. Can't promise he's Harriet's dad but he's a candidate ...
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Hadn't even looked at 1901 yet - Harriett is visiting mum and stepdad!
1901
RG13/416 37 14
Lambeth, London
119 Hartington Rd
John Weaver, head, 60, work at home, b. Lanc Everton
Ellen, wife, 48, Laundress, b. Hants Southampton
Ada, dau, s, 31, work at home, b. do.
Harriett McAlister, visitor, mar, 22, Laundress, b. do.
Thomas McAlister, visitor, 5 mo, b. Portsmouth
(Errr, who's Ada :P)
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Nearest I'm getting census-wise for Harriett, but her age is a little out:
1891
RG12/416 14 26
Lambeth, London
23 Anstey Rd
Wilson Wright, head, 36, Chartered Accountant, b. Yorkshire Kingston upon Hull
Maria, wife, 29, b. Leicestershire Ashby de la Zouch
Hettie Bailey, serv, 14, General servant, b. Hampshire Southampton
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All wonderful stuff Tati!
Thomas McAlister the baby is correct, that's uncle Tommy Mac (in later life)
Just looking at Hetty the servant in 1891 with the Wright family. She was aged 14 working and living in Lambeth, london, but her Mum Ellen Weaver in 1891 was still in Portsea?
I was thinking this may be too young to be living away, but perhaps it was different in those days. Also, the fact she's in Lambeth is exciting, and convinces me there is a Lambeth connection (remember Davies visitor to Weavers in Portsea 1891)
Not sure what brought the families to Lambeth initially, Thomas McAlister was a tailor in the area when he moved there in early 1900's.
the family address of 35 lansdowne road, Lambeth is factual if you stumble across that anywhere.
Just in case it's any help - (John) Thomas McAlsiter was born in Co.Down, Northern Ireland. thats all I know.
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re: Ada
Not recollection on my families side. I'm thinking she's more likely from the John Weaver side, especially as it says 'daughter' not 'step daughter', and when given his age.
Thanks again for continued hard work and help Tati :)
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I'm finding quite a bit on Ancestry site for Ellen Murrey b.Mar 1853, Southampton,Hants. I am increasingly confident it's our girl. I weigh heavily on your 'Steel residence' data
1871 Ellen Murrey 'in service' aged 18
1881 Ellen Bailey 'in service' aged 27
Also, we have your find of Ellen Murrey marrying a Albert Bailey 1877
1861 census
2,Godfrey Street, Southampton
George Murrey....43 labourer
Mary Murrey........37
George " ........14
Henry " .........12
Ellen " ..........8
Sarah " .........6
Joesph " ..........4
Mary " ...........1
All born Southampton
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1851 census
? court, Southampton
George Murrey......35 labourer
Mary Murrey...........26
George....................4
Henry.......................2
Another family tree on Ancestry has Mary's maiden name as Richards (b.Southampton)
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It seems Thomas was born circa 1875, going by the free 1911 census index.
Could he have been in the Army previously? The 1901 census has a Thomas Mc Alister age 26 born Ireland at Royal Artillery Clarence Barracks Portsmouth, RG13/1008 76 27
He's shown as unmarried but he's the best match I find.
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Hmm. You can probably scrap the above (sorry!) - Thomas was already a tailor in 1900.
(Although google tells me the Barracks were apparently at Eastney)
Christenings at St Barnabas, South Lambeth
25 Nov 1900
William John Thomas George, son of Thomas and Harriett Mary McAlister of 8 Newton Terrace Eastney, Thomas a Tailor
(Thomas is not a 8 Newton Terrace in 1901, RG13/989 10 13)
24 Aug 1902
Alfred Albert, born July 15th, son of Thomas and Harriett Mary McAlister of 49 Clapham Rd, Thomas a Tailor
11th May 1906
Hettie Ellen, born March 21st 1906, daughter of Thomas and Harriett Mary McAlister of 119 Hartington Rd (same address as the Weavers in 1901), Thomas a Laundry Man
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Thanks Tati...
I have the two boys on my spreadsheet, created by oral info from family.
I'm not sure who Hettie Ellen is, but I'm certain my Dad or his cosuin can help resolve that, as between them they'll know all the aunts and uncles.
EDIT: Hettie was an Auntie, who died in childbirth in her 20's.
Yes, it is weird where Harriet is hiding.
I suppose next I'll have to check on her father, the ill fated Mr.Bailey, who is in fact my Great-Great-Grandfather :o
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EDIT: Hettie was an Auntie, who died in childbirth in her 20's.
How sad.
Marriage Jun 1928 Lambeth 1d 575
Hetty E McAlister - Edward Spencer
Death Jun 1929 age 23 Hetty E Spencer Hampstead 1a 680
It would be a good idea to purchase Harriett Mary's birth cert, to check whether we're on the right track with her mum at all, and to ascertain her dad was Albert.
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Yes, I will order her cert.
i am almost certain we are correct with our data now.
the Laundress thing is accurate, beacuse i now know that Thomas McAlister,a tailor by trade, owned his own laundry when he moved to Lambeth.
His wife Harriett is visiting her Mother in Lambeth 1901 and listed a laundress..
Still a little confused where she is in 1891,...you posted one very likely possibility with the Wrtight household in Lambeth, only her age is off a bit but those things happen.
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Hey Hi Darren! :) LOL
This posting is in question to Tati who has helped in some Christenings of St. Barnabas, South Lambeth. Tati.... do you find a Christening of Doris Wood born 27 July 1919 she was born at the residence of 119 Hartington Road and was also christened at this church. To make a long story short, Doris was raised and lived with the McAlister family. I am particularly interested in her parents names. And its OK to post this, because she is deceased many years ago now. Thank you kindly if you could help.
Adeline
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Hi Adeline,
I'm very sorry, I don't have access to christening details as late as 1919 :(
If this is her birth registration then she was probably born to an unmarried mother:
Doris Wood, mother's maiden name Wood, Sep 1919 Lambeth 1d 579
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I haven't crossed referenced at this time, as am only looking at the original birth certificate, I do have the index here somewhere in my papers, but most likely the same.
Its actually the Greater London Record Office which holds the surviving parish registers.......since I've put it off this long, time to contact them directly. Just thougt I could cut some corners.............Thank you kindly, Adeline