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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Geordie Mag on Monday 29 March 10 17:10 BST (UK)
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My gggrandfather, Thomas Lee, was a miller in County Durham. Originally he was at Alwent Mill near Gainford, but by 1861 he was based at Ingleton windmill. He stayed there until 1895, when business collapsed and everything was sold off. Does anyone know where I might find a picture of Ingleton Windmill? Thanks
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Hi Geordie Mag - my husbands Gt Gt Grandfather is also Thomas Lee, the miller at Ingleton via Frederick George and his daughter Annie Lee. I am also researching the Lee family although I do not have a lot of information - I really just wanted to make the contact. I hope to visit the local history centre shortly to find out more about the bankruptcy and any other information.
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Hi. Good to hear from you. I was going to say I would send you a PM, but I think (someone will put me right on this) that you will need to have some more entries on Rootschat before we can use that. I can always post some of my more general stuff on the bankruptcy on this board, when I have a moment, to get you going.
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Hi both
pamh55 only needs a couple more posts to be able to send and receive PMs
Just put a couple of one or two word posts on here - anything will do :)
Linda
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Some of the more general stuff about Thomas Lee and Ingleton Mill as promised. Thomas Lee was in charge at Ingleton Mill by 1861, and clearly doing well. He described himself as "Master Miller", had several people working for him, as well as his sons, and was listed as qualified to vote in 1868-9. In 1885 it was announced in "The Northern Echo" that he had taken a lease on the Church Flour Mills at Richmond and was installing new machinery. Yet 10 years later, in 1895, everything had to be sold off. I assume that the collapse of business was part of the general collapse of local mills, faced with the import of corn from America to be processed at the port of entry in one of the large new steam mills. Does anyone know if my guess on this is correct? I know more and more corn was being imported and that large new mills were developed at the ports, but I am a bit vague on when this actually happened.
What intrigues me is the lease on the mills at Richmond. I wonder whether Thomas overreached himself and speeded up the collapse of his business. On the other hand, he may have already started to have problems and hoped that by expanding he might get enough new customers to keep the business going.
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Thanks Geordie Mag for that great information about Thomas Lee and thank you Linda (danuslave) for your support and encouragement. I would be delighted to receive a PM (presume personal messge) but this is the first time I have used Roots Chat and am hesitant at the moment about how things work. When you say I need a couple more postings to receive a PM do you mean postings on other family queries, not necessarily the Lee Family?
I had found some of the information about the Lee Family, and they did seem quite prosperous - it did cross my mind that the business was supporting a lot of family members and maybe they stretched themselves too far. I agree with you about the advancement of mechanisation in connection with milling and this also could have contributed to the business collapse - very sad - our Frederick George ended up a carrier for the colliery.
thanks again.
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If you reply to this, you will be able to receive peronal messages, I think.
I have just been talking to my aunt about the fate of the Lee family, and her opinion also was that there were too many sons trying to live off the family business. My great grandfather, Alf (Richard Alfred), went off to run the pub at Killerby after the mill failed, but enjoyed drinking with the customers too much, drank all the profits, went bankrupt but did a bunk off to the USA before the court hearing, leaving the family to cope. My grandfather had to leave school to support the family. Alf did come back and got a job on a farm. He was a most delightful old gentleman, according to my aunt. What a classy family.
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Well what can I say - they are certainly an interesting family!!!!. I believe that the eldest son was also the miller at Summerhouse - I wonder if this was part of the Lee "empire" also. I would like to find out what happened to Thomas's brother Matthew who seems to have disappeared from censuses.
I think we have a lot to discuss.
Regards
Pam
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Hi,
My Gr x4 grandfather had Ingleton Mill built and was still the owner in 1841 when he sold it.
We have visited the site and all that is there now are a couple of holiday apartment's and a couple of old houses. According to the current owner of the land the mill was knocked down in the 1960's.
The place remains as farmland.
If you have managed to obtain a photo then a copy would be most welcome if at all possible.
Regards
John
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Sorry - I have not as yet found a picture, but will send you a copy if I do. Sorry also for not replying sooner - I have been away.
I was interested in your information about the mill. In the 1841 census, Thomas and Matthew Lee were both working at Ingleton windmill for Robert Colman. Was he your great great grandfather, or had he already sold the mill on?
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes Robert Colman was my 4xGr grandfather and he still owned the mill in 1841.
He put the mill up for sale in 1841
It was advertised in the Newcastle Courant on 12 march 1841.
We never knew who he sold the mill to, so its nice to find that snippet of information.
Do you have any further info on the mill, or on the sale of the mill to your relatives?
If I find a photo of the mill then I too will be happy to send you a copy.
Kind Regards
John Colman
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Thomas Lee didn't buy the mill straight away. He probably didn't have the money. He and his brother went off to run Alwent Mill at Gainford, a water mill. He bought Ingleton Mill some time in the 1850s and the 1861 census described him as a "master miller". I haven't as yet found a record of his purchase of the mill.When Thomas went bankrupt in 1895, the notice in The Northern Echo descibed the mill as being "in a good state of repair and fully equipped for doing a large business" . The mill came with an 8 roomed house and large walled garden. There was also a 2 roomed cottage for the cartman and an acre of grassland. 24 hens went with the property.
It may have seemed "fully equipped for doing a large business", but a few years later, some other owners also went bankrupt.
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Hi again,
I dont know when the mill was actually sold. The only info I have is the advert in the paper for march 1841.
The info you have given me is very interesting.
Thank you for sharing that with me
Regards
John
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I'm fascinated by all you've all got to say ....I noticed in the 1911 census that Fredrick was still at the mill as a boarder although he was now a widower with his sons married ...Arthur being my grandma's dad...and also wondered who the the little girl was at the mill in 1841 called Dorothy Coleman she was 3 ...cos Robert Coleman was 70 by then ..Thomas and Matthew in their twenties
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Hi Lynne,
Good to hear from you about your link with the Ingleton Lees via Frederick, who stuck with Ingleton despite all the family problems., though I hadn't noticed he was boarding at the mill in 1911. We had a look round Ingleton churchyard a few weeks back, when we were doing a walk in that area. Couldn't find any Lee tombstones (not surprising after their financial problems at the mill) but found several of their in-laws the Todds.
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We had a look around the graveyard a few weeks ago too my father was bought up in ingleton Eva Lee his mother married dick bowles . the bowles and Lee's where at ingleton for generations ..,I have a lovely pic of the whole family over a hundred years ago outside netherbrooms which is one of the last houses in the village we have just been working out who was on it with my parents tonight. But no lees on it ...do you have any photos of them ...so we must share Thomas Lee ....the Miller as a common ancestor....pic is off my grandma ...Eva Lee....daughter of Arthur ....granddaughter of Frederick....great granddaughter of Thomas ....
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I have lots of photos for Lees, because my mother was a Lee. I don't, however, have any of Thomas or any of his children. I do have a photo of Herbert Lee, who was Alf's son and therefore Thomas's grandson, and also my grandfather. I only have the one photo, because he died quite young. It is currently stuck in an album, so I'll see haw easy it is to get it out. (I did the sticking, so I expect it will be very easy. I am not the most skilled of people at doing anything requiring cutting and sticking).
I was wondering how much information you had about the family before Thomas? Let me know what you have, and I'll send on anything extra that I have. I see you have a link for your email address, so I could use that to send attachments.
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my dad's great grandfather was Frederick brother of your grandad alf .....work that one out lol.....we are related a long way back ...my dad has some photos of Fredericks son arthur Lee my dad's grandfather ...so that makes him Thomas lees grandson also ...how complicated is that ...I will get it and send it ....apparently he was a lovely gentle man ...my father says that Thomas Lee was mighty strong hauling bags of flour around and was famous in the area for his strength but my grandmother Eva was very petite with dark auburn hair and brown eyes she was very pretty...I wonder if any more of the lees married bowles es as they all lived in ingleton ,Langton area for generations .....great to swap stories
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Wonderful to have a family memory of Thomas. Alf's exploits have rather overwhelmed any memories of the earlier generation in our branch of the family. As for our relationship - I would have to draw up a chart to try to work that out.
Anyway, I'll have a search round for photos and I shall also let my aunt (who, of course, remembers Alf as Grandpa Lee from when she was a child) know that we have been in touch.
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Hello Lynne and Geordie Mag. It is good that this link has been revived again. Its some years now since I researched the Lee family and we shared information.
My husbands Great Grandfather was Frederick George Lee and his only daughter Annie, my husbands grandmother. If I remember correctly, in 1911, Frederick was living with his daughter in Ingleton, who by this time had married Robert Hodgson (who appears to have been working away from home at the time of the census) although I am not sure if it was at the Mill. Annie had brothers called Alf and Arthur. I understood that a lot of this line of the Lee family settled in the Trimdon area after 1911 together with Robert & Annie Hodgson (nee Lee) and also Frederick her father. Sadly we don't have any photos but it is very interesting description of Thomas Lee, thank you.
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Good to hear from you again Pam. I've rather let my research into the Lees lapse, recently, so its good to revisit (and rethink?) the information again. Reading through the back stuff, I see you mention having heard that a son of Thomas was miller at Summerhouse. Do you have any more on that?
I've sent you an email Lynne to set up a link for sending photos. I'll send them to you as well Pam if you want them.
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Hello again. I agree it is sometime since I researched the Lees and Todds and even revisiting now I have found so many in the area, it is difficult to keep track. Yes - even after the mill was bankrupt, I found that John Lee born Alwent Mill 1848 was still a corn miller on the 1901 and 1911 census and living at Summerhouse. He is described as a "worker" so I am not sure if there was a mill at Summerhouse or whether he remained employed at Ingleton Mill after it was sold on. In 1911 he was living alone at Summerhouse although still married and I traced his wife to the Infirmary part of the Workhouse in Darlington. The don't appear to have had any children.
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I see that in the 1901 census John and Rebecca have an adopted daughter, Kate Eberth, born in Middlesex, like Rebecca.Somewhat intrigued, I found the birth of Kathleen Eberth in 1892 in St Pancras registratio district. i did think she might be a child of Rebecca's, but can't find any record of a Rebecca Eberth. So perhaps this Kate was a niece. Anyway, nothing to do with our immediate line of research
I haven't got much further with the Lees. One census entry says John Lee was born at Allenheads, and there do seem to be a lot of Lees up there, including one who is a miller, but I haven't seen an obvious birth fro him. And as for the Todds....!
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Hi Lynne,
I dont come on here very often so have only just seen your post from last August.
Dorothy Colman is the grand daughter of Robert Colman. She is the daughter of Roberts son....Robert and Mary Colman. The son Robert also ran the mill at Hart. Both are my grand fathers many times back. Im am still looking for an elusive photo of the mill.
John
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Hi John,
I have just sent you a private message as your email notifications do not appear to be working at the moment.
Regards
Sarah
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Hello Geordie Mag, My name if Faith and I am Herbert Lee's great grand daughter living in Australia. My research has led me here and I thank you for the information you have shared. :D
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Hello Faith. Good to hear from you. I shall eventually send you a personal message, but you will need to make another two posts on this site before the personal message system can be used. Perhaps you could tell me what you have found out about the Lee family so far.
Mag
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Hi Mag, I do not know alot about the history of the Lee's as I was born and raised in Australia. My Grandmother is Lilian Lee who passed when I was 6. Her father and Mother were Herbert and Violet Lee and Violets Mother was Margaret Pybus. I have a couple of pictures of My Gran Lilian with her sisters when they were young and know that we are related to the Joseph Todd (Turnpike and Blacksmith in Auckland) though I am not sure how yet? I also know we are related to the Aldersons/Mudd and Wilson's, but that is really all I have, beside what I have found on here and Ancestry.I stumbled across these post's while trying to find information about the Ingleton Windmill due to what was listed on the census records. :D Faith
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Hi Faith,
The key link between the Lees and the Todds is that Thomas Lee, the miller of Ingleton, married Elizabeth Todd, granddaughter of Joseph Todd the tollgate keeper (daughter of his son Thomas, who farmed at Killerby near Ingleton). Thomas and Elizabeth's son Richard Alfred married Harriet Alderson and one of their children was Herbert.
Going back from Thomas is problematic. His parents were John and Isabella Lee, who for some time lived near Wolsingham, in Weardale, and followed the miner/farmer way of life typical of the North Pennines. We have been walking in the area where they lived today, but their former home is somewhere underneath Tunstall Reservoir. However, It is difficult to find their parents. John seems to have come from the the area round Allenheads just over the Northumberland border, but there were quite a few John Lees.
If you reply to this, I shall then be able to send you a personal message and give you my email address. I have a lot of family photos. Mag
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Hi Mag,
Thank you so much your information to me is very much appreciate. It can be a tad difficult researching when you area sitting on the other side of the world at a keyboard and not really having too much knowledge of the area and surrounding villages. I am so thrilled to have found you, as by what I can gather and if I am correct we are 1st cousin 1 x removed. Faith
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I have sent you a PM.
Mag
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I am trying to find out why the Todd family moved from Marylebone (London) to Killerby in the late 1850s. The head of the family ((John, a boot and shoemaker) appears to have died in 1859 leaving a will which he wrote in 1846. I believe they had family connections to Middleton house in Ingleton.
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Hello and welcome.
John was the 4th child of Thomas Todd, who farmed at Killerby, though John was born in the nearby hamlet of Langton in 1820, so perhaps Thomas had not yet taken on the farm at Killerby.
In my records I have made a note that going through the records of the chapel at Denton, I found a record of the death of John Todd aged 33 at Killerby in 1853 "having recently returned from London." Sadly it does not give a cause of death (some earlier burial records do). I imagine that he was not well and thought his family would have more support if they were near his family. (Although it could be that work was not going well and he thought he would have more chance of employment in his home area)
His older brother , Joseph, farmed at Middleton House, Ingleton.
Hope this helps.
Mag
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Thank you for your reply. I have John born in 25.06.1820.
He was a boot and shoe maker in London (39 Albany St., then 8 Charlotte St., then 11 Upper Dorset St. in London).
This ties in with what you tell me.
Unfortunately I have his death (from death certificate and from his will) as 18.11.1859 at Ingleton of ‘General debility’ aged 49.
I wonder where the mix up is.
I also have his full name as John Southeron Todd (grandmother’s maiden name being Southeran)
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I have John Southeron Todd as John's uncle, born 1789, but I shall check all the details tomorrow. All very strange, since you have the certificate.
Mag
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I have the wills of John Southern Todd (1859), Thomas Todd (1872), Joseph Todd (1885).
Birth certificates of John Southern Todd (1848) and Wilfred George Todd 1900).
Marriage certificate of John Southern Todd and Mary White (1844).
Death certificate of John Southern Todd (1859).
Let me have your email address and I will send you any that you may not have.
Regards,
David
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Hello,
I have been busy with other stuff (eg pulling pond weed out of our lock down pond. Deep joy!) but have now managed to glance at some Teesdale BTs. So first up Gainford. Their register records the baptism of John Todd (no Southern as a second name) son of Thomas and Elizabeth on October 18th 1820, Thomas being a farmer at Langton (image 250).
Then the Denton/Gainford register. On August 12th 1853 it records the burial of John Todd of Killerby, lately returned from London.
Then from the Ingleton register for November 23rd 1859:- burial of John Southern Todd aged 69.
I'm afraid I didn't record the image numbers for either of the burials, but they are in much shorter registers.
I started looking up pther information about the on census records etc but decided that way lay madness (so many John Todds!) and left them for another day.
Thanks for the offer of the wills. I will look to see if any of them are useful. Mag