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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: Jamez on Friday 26 March 10 14:24 GMT (UK)
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I`m trying to find out who lived at a house named "Oaklands" c1865 - c1885.
There was a correspondence posted in Croydon and addressed to Major Charles Edward Thornton at addresses in Tavistock Road, Westbourne Park, London and also Clanricarde Gardens, Bayswater, London.
According to the 1881 Census C. E. Thornton was a retired Major formerly with the 7th Royal Fusiliers. He was born in London c1825.
It`s possible that the occupier of "Oaklands" was a member of the Thornton family.
Any information or leads would be greatly appreciated.
James
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Found an 'Oaklands - Thornton Heath' on the 1881 census
Curtis W Stevenson / Head / Married / 58 / Retired Grocer / Middlesex
Sarah Stevenson / Wife / 50 / Middlesex
Hannah Nash / Servant / Widow / 46 / Cook / Wanboro Wiltshire
and 1871
Curtis W Stevenson / Head / Married / 48 / Retired Grocer / St Martin in the Fields Middlesex
Sarah Stevenson / Wife / 43 / St Lukes Middlesex
Amelia Chilcott / Servant / 40 / Bloomsbury Middlesex
There may be another Oaklands more in Croydon so will have another look.
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There's also a current address in Caterham called Coulsdon Lodge, Oaklands House, i'm not sure how old the house is but it is now a 10 bedded home for people with learning difficulties.
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Many thanks Mark for your quick reply.
I just have the envelope with the name "Oaklands" printed on the reverse but unfortunately no contents.
I`m not local to the Croydon area so relying very much on the internet to research further. The Thornton family must have been connected with the Croydon area judging by the place names seen on the maps.
Thanks again for your assistance.
James
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Hello, I know this was first posted some time ago, but are you still looking into Oaklands? Oaklands, 450 London Road, Thornton Heath was the home or a relation of mine, Capt Curtis Stevenson. He died there in 1894 and him wife in 1913.
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Hi dms2000
According to his profile, James was online a few weeks ago so should reveive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.
Dawn
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Hello dms2000
Thank you for your recent post. Yes i`m still very interested in finding out more about Capt Curtis Stevenson as it looks as if he or another member of his family had this illustrated correspondence with Major Thornton. Whoever it was certainly had an artistic talent and a great imagination. I should say that i am not related to any of these families. I collect illustrated envelopes and i managed to acquire some of them a few years ago. Unfortunately there were no letters with the envelopes. The envelope with `OAKLANDS` printed on the reverse has some pen and ink drawings of characters in military uniforms. It was posted in Croydon on the 11 Feb 1878. Any information you have on the Stevenson family would be much appreciated.
James
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James,
Curtis Stevenson was my 2nd Great Grand Uncle. He is buried in Queens Road Cemetery in Croydon, and his grave marker shows him as being a Captain in the 2nd South Middlesex Volunteer Rifle Corps. There is a window to his memory in Southwark Cathedral which I visited yesterday. As he is not a direct ancestor, I haven't really spent too much time on him, but I have become a little intrigued! Whilst visiting the cemetery last week, I looked for any traces of Oaklands, however London Road obviously bares no resemblance to what it did in the mid to late 1800's. There is an Oaklands Avenue, off London Road, which may or may not have been where their house was located. My family tree has no Thornton connections that I know of. My family tree is on ancestry, if you have access. The wife was called Sarah and she died at Oaklands in 1913.
I have some photographs of his gravestone and the window, but they appear to be too large to attach to this post.
David Stevenson
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David
Many thanks for the additional information which is very interesting and helpful. I will attempt to attach an image of three of the envelopes with the pen & ink drawings. Failing that i could send an e-mail to you direct.
James
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David
Posted in Croydon 1 Sept 1880 & 22 Dec 1885
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Just a reminder to use the personal message system to exchange email addresses ;)
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The Stevenson monument at Queen's Road Cemetery can be seen here (Curtis) (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=stevenson&GSiman=1&GScid=2289461&GRid=57521848&) and here (Sarah} (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=57521869), including David's photographs of the inscriptions mentioning Oaklands, Thornton Heath.
In Kelly's 1902 London Southern Suburbs Directory, there as a Mrs Stevenson at 450 London Rd, between Winterbourne Rd and Warwick Rd, as is the present Oaklands Rd. Croydon Local Studies (http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/archives/lslibrary) may have more information, possibly even a photo.
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The third address (the one on the pink envelope - bottom one of the pair) looks like a different handwriting, the way the r in Thornton is written is quite different.
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Chris
Thank you for the info and links. All much appreciated. I have re-sized the three images.
James
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I've found you Major Thornton in 1871. He and his family are living in Dover. His name is Charles Edmund (not Edward). He has two children only identified by their initials CAA daughter born abt 1864 and EWT son. Looking at FreeBMD the daughter is Cornelia Amanda Augusta reg Q3 1863 Derby and the son is Edmund W T reg Q3 1866 Dover. (annoyingly this was after the BMD index changed to give only middle initials). Cornelia is still with the Major in in 1881, Edmund isn't. The wife identified as E A Thornton isn't with them in 1881 either although the Major says he is married not widowed. I can't find a marriage for them, but the wife is born in the East Indies, so maybe married abroad.
So far we have assumed that Mr Stevenson is writing these illustrated letters, but could it be the son? Writing to his father from a boarding school called Oaklands?
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Found the son in 1881, he is at boarding school, but in Hove, at a school called the Wick in Furze Hill. Long way to go to Croydon to post a letter.
So that theory doesn't run.
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Some more background on the Major. 1871 census says he was born Marylebone. Best match on baptism from Ancestry is Charles Edmund son of William Thomas and Hannah Isabella Cornelia Thornton born 14 Feb 1825 and bapt on & March 1831 at St Marylebone. Also bapt on same day is his sister Eveline Blanche born 26 Aug 1828. Their address is Clarence Terrace, father's occupation looks like "Esqr" which I guess is short for esquire.
So year of birth and place match. Mother has Cornelia in her name like the Major's daughter and the social class seems consistent.
Daughter Cornelia Amanda Augusta was born on 19 Sep 1863, bapt 20 Oct 1863 at Christ church, Derby. Parents Charles Edmund and mother Eliza Amanda Thornton.
The son's full name is Edmund William Tankerville Thornton bapt Dover 19 Sep 1866 (big sister's birthday). Same parents.
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Looks like Eliza Amanda Thornton died in 1872 and the Major remarried Maria Butt Chapman Pole in 1873. There is a daughter on 1881 census age 3 - probably Catherine Isabella. The Major diesd in 1888 at Hove. He left over 26K. Probate to his widow.
Now where was she in 1881?
There is a mention of another residence in Lancashire - Kirkland Hall in the probate record, so maybe there?
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LizzieL
My apologies for not responding sooner to your posts. I am only now getting the time to digest the information you have provided. All very much appreciated.
This correspondence addressed to Major Thornton came onto the market in the mid 1990`s. It contained approximately 160 envelopes all with pen & ink illustrations from 1864 - 1886. Some of them were addressed to Maj. Thornton at Victoria Park Dover 1870 -1871.
I was looking through my file and found a note i made about a Clementina Thornton of Chobham Lodge, Park Hill Rise, Croydon in the 1881 census. She was aged 60 and not married. I suppose this lady might be another source for this correspondence.
James
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Found your Clementina on 1881 census, age 60 gives a birth year around 1821 and birthplace given as Middlesex. Best match on baptism is Clementina dau of John and Eliza Thornton of Grafton street, bapt 2 Sep 1820 at St Georges Hanover square. Father's occupation gentleman.
When I first saw the pictures I thought they would have been done by a female relative (sister, cousin, daughter). The long period probably eliminates a male child, who would probably have given up after a couple of years. The start date of at least 1864 probably eliminates a child unless he had another daughter earlier than the one I found on the 1871 census. He was born in 1825, could have married in late 1840's and had a daughter in her early teens by 1864
Clementina could be a cousin, but haven't found a sister with that name only the Eveline on my earlier post.
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Looking through the 1878 PO Directory of Surrey, there are some other possibilities:
James Hall lived at Oaklands in Kenley
Frederick Wm Home or Hume lived at Oaklands, Ashburton Road, Croydon
John Thompson Burnell lived at Oaklands, Palace Road, Lower Norwood
John Jones lived at Oaklands, Canterbury Gro, Lower Norwood
Mrs Coleman lived at Oaklands, Beulah Hill, Upper Norwood
John Townley Smith lived at Oaklands, Dulwich Wood Park, Upper Norwood
Daniel E Goddard lived at Oaklands, Harcourt Road, Wallington
Robert Whittingham lived at 1 Oaklands, Park Hill Road, Croydon
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Park Hill Road and Ashburton road wouldn't be far from East Croydon. The postmark on one of the envelopes said Croydon E. I suspect the other addresses would have their own more local (non-Croydon) postmarks in those days.
I've found Frederick Hume on 1881 census, he is aged 49, his wife Charlotte is 56. A Frederick William Hume married a Charlotte Cowper on 12 June 1862 at St Barnabas in Kensington. He was a bachelor occ gentleman, she was a spinster, both full age. Can't see a Thornton connection.
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The postmark on one of the envelopes said Croydon E.
Others say Croydon A and Croydon D.
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I've found the death of the Major's mother Hannah Isabella Cornelia reg Q1 1859 at St James, Westminster. There is also probate granted to Charles Edmund Thornton of Omagh Ireland as nearest in kin to the late Mrs Hannah Isabella Cornelia Halkett Thornton of 1 Belle Vue Terrace Edinburgh (spouse of William Thomas Thornton) who died on 18 Jan 1859 at 4, St James's Place, Westminster. So the major was possibly serving in Ireland when his mother died. As it says spouse and not widow, we assume the Major's father was still alive in 1859. Halkett may have been the Major's mother's maiden name.
As to postmarks, the A and D are under the word Croydon and may identify the stamp used for cancellation. The "E" I referred to is after the word Croydon, implying Croydon East. Envelope with the circus drawings.
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The "E" I referred to is after the word Croydon, implying Croydon East.
Ah yes I see what you mean. The 1885 one was posted in East Croydon.
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The Major's parents marriage. William Thomas Thornton to Hannah Isabella Cordelia Halkitt Craigie (so Halki(e)tt yet another Christian name) 7 June 1824 Speldhurst, Kent. Craigie sounds of Scottish origin.
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This is a link to an Ancestry image for those with a sub - Charles Edmund Thornton's detailed army "statement of services". http://tinyurl.com/ng3j6h6
He was only with the 7th Fusiliers for 2 years - he was put on the unattached list in March 1859 per the Gazette
Here also is a list of similar envelopes on the Bath Postal Museum website. Unfortunatley I haven't been able to view the images http://www.bathpostalmuseum.co.uk/search-result.html?search=major+thornton&id=40
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Am I right in thinking that only one of the 160 envelopes has "Oaklands " printed on the back? If so it would seem unlikely that this was the writer's home address.
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Have just found an on line tree on Ancestry which includes the Major. It has the marriage in Ireland, which matches the army record in 1849 to Catherine Feeney. So maybe he was married three times.
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FWIW, Whitney's book "Collect British Postmarks" associates the 938 "duplex" postmark with 7 Croydon districts: Croydon, Croydon E, Croydon S, Croydon W, New Thornton Heath Croydon, Thornton Heath, and Thornton Heath High St. He doesn't explain the significance of the letter within the circle.
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Another one for the Oaklands in Park Hill Road: a John Frith lived at number 2.
http://www.mocavo.co.uk/Proceedings-and-Transactions-of-the-Croydon-Microscopical-Natural-History-Club-1871/965160/551
This particular Oaklands was advertised as a "commodious family residence" in 1896.
In the 1881 census (RG11/813 page 41) it is just "Park Hill Rd"
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After extensive Googling, it looks like that the letter below "Croydon" was a code representing the time of posting / franking.
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Thanks everyone for your comments.
ShaunJ The majority of the envelopes were cut down and only the portion which contained a drawing survived presumably for insertion into a scrap book.
LizzieL I was thinking the artist may have been Clementina Thornton. I have found two more back portions of envelopes dated 25 Feb 1878 & 2 Jan 1881. I wonder could the monogram `CH` be the house name i.e. Clobham House or `OH` Oaklands House. Both of these envelopes were posted in the sub-post office of Lower Addiscombe Road, East Croydon. The drawing of the helmet has the initial `C`.
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The Clementina Thornton who is in Croydon in 1881 was in Reigate in 1871 (not a common name and same servant with her), In 1861 she is in Clapham with John and Eliza Thornton (parents) so confirms the baptism I found earlier. In 1851 she is visiting a barrister and his family in Sevenoaks. There is a Clementina in 1841 in Bisham, not sure if she's the same. Age abt right and not born in county, but with living with a Francis approx 5 years older. If John and Eliza turn out to have a son Francis of right age, then she would fit in as his sister.
If all the envelopes were from Croydon going back to 1864, this doesn't quite match Clementina's residence in 1871.
The CH monogram is more likely to be a person's initials I would have thought, rather than a house. Lower Addiscombe road only a couple of months before 1881 census might be best lead yet.
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Hi James,
Charles Edmund Thornton was my great (x3) grandfather, so it is absolutely fascinating to see those lovely illustrated envelopes! Attached is an image of Maj Thornton along with his grave. Buried with him is his daughter Cornelia Amanda Augusta.
The inscription on the vault reads:
Sacred to the memory of
Major Charles Edmund Thornton
Late 7th Royal Fusiliers
Who died 23rd June 1888. Aged 63 Years
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation for when he is tried
He shall receive the crown of life, which the lord hath promised to them that love him”
Also to his oldest and dearest daughter
Cornelia Amanda Augusta
The beloved wife of James Miller Esquire of Singapore
Who died 9th January 1889. Aged 25 years
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss196/Thorny_01/IMG_20190302_162211.jpg)
(http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss196/Thorny_01/CET%20Thornton%20grave.jpg)
Kind Regards, Matthew Thornton, Norfolk