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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Rap on Thursday 25 March 10 22:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi'
I'm looking for anyone who is researching the Oakley family here in Australia. As you will see from the following thread... http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=445724.new I am trying to identify a convict with the name of John Oakley, as he may well be my great great grandfather. My John Oakley's wife was named Jane nee Hamilton, and apart from them being in Launceston Tasmania from 1857 to 1863, I know that the family lived around the Lancefield area of Northern Victoria. Anyone out there who knows of this family????
Many thanks,
Rap
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Hi Rap
If you would like to post this chap's death date (day and month, not just the year) I am happy to look up the contemporary local paper. If he was in Lancefield from 1863 to his death it's possible there will be a mention. I have not looked at that paper before so have no idea how much personal info there is in it - some country newspapers have wonderful obits and wedding/funeral descriptions.
Won't be at the National Library though till at least Tuesday and perhaps not till after Easter.
Cheers, Judith
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That would be just wonderful Judith....thankyou very much for the offer.
As far as we know, John was a Hawker, who was in a horse and cart accident....he must have had internal injuries and appeared to be fine at first. Later he was taken to Melbourne where he died. He died June 5th 1878...but obviously his accident was before this date. It would be great if there was mention of his wife Jane....even a slight hint that she was still alive in 1878...just anything to direct me in a new direction on the search for the latter parts of this fellow's life.
Many thanks Judith and best wishes
Rap
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Hi Rap :)
On the off-chance, I checked the NLA's online digitised newspapers (mainly state ones) and what do you know - a report of John's inquest! Unfortunately no mention of his wife...just a son (who is not named) :-\
Hopefully Judith will be able to find you something more in the local paper...
The Argus (Melbourne), Saturday, 8 June 1878, page 5
Mr. Candler held an inquest yesterday at the Melbourne Hospital on the body of John Oakley, aged about 50 years, who died there on the 5th inst. from the effects of some internal injuries. The deceased was a hawker, and lived at Lancefield. When driving his cart loaded with goods about six weeks ago, he fell out, and one of the wheels passed over his body. A quarter of an hour afterwards he was found sitting on a fence at the road side by his son, to whom he complained of having been hurt in the back. He blamed no one for the occurrence. Mr. R. Sides, M.B., one of the resident surgeons at the Melbourne Hospital, gave evidence that the deceased was admitted on the 14th of April suffering from slight bruises over the region of the liver and complaining of internal pain. Under treatment he improved considerably until about the 5th of May, when he was seized with shivering fits. He afterwards gradually sank until he died. The cause of death was internal injuries, and the jury returned a verdict that the deceased had died from the injuries referred to, which were accidentally received.
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How wonderful PrueM....was just looking myself! This is just great....never expected to see the 'full story'!!!
Thankyou so much....very much appreciated!! Cheers, Rap.
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I know on your other post you listed his death as 1878 I have put these here so others can veiw them quickly.
Have you got a copy of his inquest from PROV?
Death:
OAKLEY John age 56yrs d. 1878 #6090
Birth Place: GLOU
Father: Unknown
Mother: Unknown
Inquest:
OAKLEY John age 56yrs d. Melbourne 1878 #498
Cause: Fall From Cart
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Hello Rap
I can see John Oakley, "Lady Montagu" permission to marry Ann Riley "St Vincent" 1854. Are you finding children born to these parents, during the time that children are born to John Oakley and Jane Hamilton - in Tasmania?.
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Hi wivenhoe,....thanks for your interest.
I have a lady here in Vic, who has found mention of John and Ann Oakley living at Lancefield (where I know that my gggrandmother grew up)....she said that she had found a child to them in 1863 (which overlaps the children of Jane and John Oakley) on Digger, and was going to forward both entries to me, but never did. I have tried to contact her again without any luck.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to Digger to check just at the moment, but I do have a newspaper clipping from the Argus, July 3, 1873 stating that an Alfred Oakley, at Lancefield, had an argument with a fellow, and had shot at him. It went on to say that Oakley IS married to a 'sister of Riley, who was recently hanged at Wagga for the murder of drover Eppell'....now, I cannot place an Alfred Oakley in the children of John and Jane...there is an Albert Oakley b1860 (who would have only been 13 in 1873) who married a Mary Reily...but this Reily connection seems to go back to convict John (if he is our John) who can be found on his original records in Tasmanian Archives, to have been disciplined for 'locking himself in a room for hours with a Hannah Reily'.
As you have probably read, we are not sure of our John's name, and my ggrandmother has his name as Alfred John Oakley on her wedding certif. The date of 1873 would point to this Alfred being our John, as there are no other known Alfred Oakleys that I know of in my line, living in Lancefield. It also supports the marriage of John and Ann Reily still existing at this time....but we know that my gggrandmother's name was Jane Hamilton! Was there two John Oakley's living at Lancefield from 1870 to 1885???? I am waiting for a reply from the Lancefield H.S to see if there were two Oakley families living in the area at that time....still waiting!
Typical of people with convict pasts, they are very good at hiding their identities and their past history! ....not giving up yet!
Many thanks wivenhoe, and best wishes. Rap
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Have you got a copy of his inquest from PROV?
Merlin
You would need someone to do this on your behalf if you are unable to visit PROV. There are agents who provide this type of service. Copies are not provided by PROV.
I have a lady here in Vic, who has found mention of John and Ann Oakley living at Lancefield (where I know that my gggrandmother grew up)....she said that she had found a child to them in 1863
Rap
Browsing the OAKLEY births in Victoria - there is only one birth of an unnamed female to Edward OAKLEY and Ann JOHNSTON at Woodend in 1863 Reg#18157.
The only births to 1888 to a John and Ann OAKLEY in Victoria are three in 1883, 1885, 1887 to an Augustine John and Annie Elizabeth ROGERS at Carlton and Hawthorn.
Cando
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Unfortunately, I don't have access to Digger to check just at the moment, but I do have a newspaper clipping from the Argus, July 3, 1873 stating that an Alfred Oakley, at Lancefield, had an argument with a fellow, and had shot at him. It went on to say that Oakley IS married to a 'sister of Riley, who was recently hanged at Wagga for the murder of drover Eppell'....now, I cannot place an Alfred Oakley in the children of John and Jane...there is an Albert Oakley b1860 (who would have only been 13 in 1873) who married a Mary Reily...but this Reily connection seems to go back to convict John (if he is our John) who can be found on his original records in Tasmanian Archives, to have been disciplined for 'locking himself in a room for hours with a Hannah Reily'.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/3501433?searchTerm=eppell
Had difficulty in locating a newspaper report on the murder of drover EPPELL....it would appear he was murdered in 1889 so the date I do have a newspaper clipping from the Argus, July 3, 1873
is not correct.
Perhaps this is the Alfred referred to in the newspaper clipping.
Marriage
OAKLEY Alfred b. Ballarat
OREILLY Mary b. Kilmore
1884 Reg#641
Perhaps if you could detail ALL the information on John OAKLEY's death certificate it may help us further. What leads you to believe that his wife pre-deceased him. Is she noted as such? What are then names of their children born in Victoria...you state on the linked thread that they went onto have children in Victoria.
Cando
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RILEY Thomas (age: 21 / White) - New South Wales - Wagga Wagga
Murder – victim: Christian Eppel – committed on 15 September 1889 – sentenced on 27 September 1889
Christian Eppel, a 40-year-old drover of German descent living at Toowoomba, was found murdered about 8 a.m. on 15 September 1889, on the Wagga Common, some four miles from Wagga. He had been shot while sleeping.
Eppel was in charge of 950 bullocks, which had been sold on 6 September at Albury. Eppel, with six drovers, including Thomas Riley, and a cook, camped at Wagga Common, Eppel sleeping in his own tent.
In the morning of 15 September, a shot was heard, and a boy saw Riley running to get a horse and ride away very fast. After a chase, Riley was arrested by the police on the same day, and as he was found with a watch belonging to Eppel in his possession, he was charged with wilful murder.
His trial took place at Wagga Wagga District Court, and he was convicted and sentenced to death on 27 September 1889.
Riley was hanged at Wagga Wagga gaol at 9:20 a.m. on 6 November 1889.
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but I do have a newspaper clipping from the Argus, July 3, 1873 stating that an Alfred Oakley, at Lancefield, had an argument with a fellow, and had shot at him.
The above quote is also incorrect... newspaper is dated Tuesday 25 March 1890 & the name is clearly Alfred OATLEY.
Link here:
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13764427?searchTerm=%22alfred+oatley%22
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Hi Cando....the newspaper article and date was sent to me as is, and I have no way of authenticating the date....didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the date, as I couldn't place this Alfred in what I know of my family line to date. John's dc states wife's name as Jane, maiden name unknown...I went looking for this name and a possible death or remarriage...but could find nothing of interest. It is quite possible also that the Alfred bBallarat and Mary nee O'Reilly b Kilmore, are these two involved in the attempted murder ...I have no idea...I am trying to establish how many groups of Oakley's there were in the area at the time that I know my Oakley ancestors lived there...these groups may or may not be related. The first 3 and possibly four children were born in Tasmania from 1857 to 1868 ( I cannot find a birth for John James either in Tasmania or Vic), and the last son Leonard, was born in Victoria in 1869 (from his dc in 1896 Geelong, aged 29, birthplace, 'Victoria' parents John Oakley and Jane Hamilton). On John's dc in 1878, it states his children as: Walter 19 years, Albert aged 18 years, Teresa aged 11 years , Frances aged 16 years, John aged 9 years and Leonard aged 8 years. I hope to get into Prov during the hols to look for the Inquest docs Merlin....thanks! Thanks also for the birth look-ups for John and Anne...seem not to be mine.
Thanks folks.
Rap
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I hope to get into Prov during the hols to look for the Inquest docs Merlin....thanks!
Rap,
Make sure you pre-order the files before you go to PROV as they will need to be taken out of storage & be waiting for you when you arrive to read & copy.
You will also find that they will be closed on some days over the easter holidays, if you check their website they will have them listed.
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Lots of interruptions while having a look around my resources and many replies in the interim......so will post what I found anyway
One son's name -
OAKLEY, Albert Harold.
Burial 23 Nov 1931 Roman Catholic
Cemetery Lancefield cemetery, Victoria
and his death reg
OAKLEY Albert
Father Oakley John Mother Jane HAMILTON
At Lancefield 78 years 1931 Reg#14848
His birth does not appear to have been registered in Tasmania in 1853.
There is also this burial record
OAKLEY, Mary.
Burial 16 Jul 1938 Lancefield cemetery, Victoria Roman Catholic
and the death reg from the index
OAKLEY Mary
Father Reilly Edward Mother Mary UNKNOWN
At Lancefield 80 years 1938 Reg#16539
And I wonder if this is another child
OAKLEY, Fanny. [b.c1865]
Hospital record 21 Mar 1884 Lancefield Born Victoria 19 years Single No Occupation. Religion Church of England. Interic [sic] fever.
Kyneton Hospital Admissions Registers 1862 - 1885.
Can't see a birth registration for Fanny in the Vic indexes.
Death
OAKLEY Leonard Leslie
Father Oakley John Mother Jane HAMILTON
29 years at Geelong 1896 Reg#6020
http://www.gct.net.au/
90611
OAKLEY Leonard Leslie Buried 04 May 1896
Geelong Eastern Cemetery Location METO*M***47
No birth registration in the Victorian indexes for Leonard either.
Another OAKLEY from the records but being born c1859 Vic may not be one of yours. May possibly be the son of Edward and Mary Ann HEWITT.
OAKLEY, Walter.
Hospital record 25 Oct 1883 Bolinda Vale Born Victoria 24 years Shearer
Religion Church of England
Kyneton Hospital Admissions Registers 1862 - 1885.
Have you considered chasing up some parish records...perhaps both Anglican and Catholic?
From an email last week from PROV.
Easter Closures
The Victorian Archives Centre Reading Room will close for two full weeks at 4:30 pm on Friday 26 March, 2010 and re-open at 9:00 am on Monday 12 April, 2010.
Cando
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Hi Cando....I think that I'm more confused than ever...but thankyou so much for finding these entries.
The birth entries that were sent to me by the kind lady from Tassie (same one who sent me the typed newspaper article of the Oakley story....so doubting the accuracy and given facts at this point!)...she found the following entries.
Oakley, Female, registered 16 Jan 1863, Ref No 57, father John Oakley, mother Jane Hamilton Reg State Tas.
Oakley, male, registered 20 Sept 1857 Ref No 1229, father John Oakley, mother Jane Hamilton, Reg State Tas.
Oakley, male,registered 11 March 1858, Reg No 903, father John Oakley, mother Jane Hamiltonl Reg State Tas.
From John's death certif. and the ages of the children, we don't seem to be matching birth years here much.
Walter aged 19 in 1878....born 1859 (does match Bolinda Vale, Kyneton Hospital entry of yours though!)
Albert aged 18 in 1878....born 1860 ( no match to Albert Harold reg 14848 who was born in 1853)
Frances aged 16 in 1878....born 1862 (this is my great grandmother, and this 1862 date matches her birth date on her marriage and death certifs.....mind you, she states that she was born in Victoria and not Tasmania. Her birthday was December 22...so I'm pretty sure she is the baby noted above registered in 1863)
Teresa aged 11 in 1878....born 1867 ( matches her marriage certif.)
John James aged 9 in 1878....born 1869
Leonard Lesley aged 8 in 1878....born 1870 ( from death listing in Geelong 1896 aged 29...this Leonard's birth year is 1865)
I think Cando that it is pretty obvious that most of these children had little idea of their birth year and place of birth....hence my assumption of Jane's posssible death at the time of John's accident due to the way her name was recorded. Who-ever provided the information for the death certif, made a lot of 'guesses' I think. My gggrandmother Frances told my grandmother that she was born in Melbourne, and my grandmother's sister, Alice, that she was born at Lancefield....I don't think that she knew exactly! Frances told my mother as a little girl that she remembers Ned Kelly jumping the fences at their farm when she was a little girl...but I cannot find the family living in Kellly country at all...this I find supports the idea that the children may have grown up with other families perhaps.
I also think that there seems to be two Oakley families living in the same area in the 1860's to 1880's....all with similar repeating family names. The fact that your entries note Roman Catholic for some and COE for others is a hint that they may not have all belonged to the same family. I'm waiting for a reply from the Lancefield Hs.....see what they come up with!!
Many thanks Cando for your time and interest!
Rap
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Good heavens what a mistranscription -
OATLEY Name Not Recorded
Father John Mother Jane HAMMILTON
11 Mar 1858 at Launceston Reg#903
There is only one OAKLEY [searched using wildcards] birth at Gisborne and nothing at Lancefield to 1888.
Can't really see two family living at Lancefield by the indexes.
I wondered if it was your comment left on the Lancefield Historical Society homepage ;)
Cheers and good luck with your research.
Cando
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Oakley, male, registered 20 Sept 1857 Ref No 1229, father John Oakley, mother Jane Hamilton, Reg State Tas.
Rap
Walter aged 19 in 1878....born 1859
Rap
Omitted this from last post
Death
OAKLEY Walter James
70 years at Cohuna Reg#1650 1926
I would not rely on information on a John OAKLEY's death certificate as being accurate. So Jane is not noted as deceased. Who was the informant? If it was a clerk of courts or something similar, they would not have known Jane's maiden name.
If you are so sure they were born at Lancefield I would as mentioned previously, chase up some parish records.
Cando
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Found online ....
........... Aussie Oakley family, particularly the children of Albert John Oakley bc1820'ish who married Jane nee Hamilton. .........Albert (who called himself James) on shipping or bdm, ............ perhaps he was the son of a convict....
Albert and Jane had 5 children that we know of; Theresa bc1851 who married a 'Ralf';Albert bc1853 and died 1931 at Lancefield;John; Walter and lastly Frances Mary b1862 (at 'Melbourne' from her marriage certif. to Charles Henry Russell Mckenzie).
Cando
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Hi Cando.... be wary of those who send things!!
It makes me wonder if the name 'Oakley' is mis-spelt by the scribe and recordeded the way it was heard, or the translation from the origininal doc to modern media has viewed the record as reading 'Oatley'.... or we are dealing with a fellow who's name really is 'Oatley'!!!! (in both cases!!) The reality is that not many could read or write, and mistakes were probably common...makes it tough on 'mugs' like me!
Yes, the posting you found was from early days of the search for John....was all that we knew at the time...we know a little more now. The Lancefield HS were granted some govt. funds....great to see these people who do such a great job be 'helped along' a little.
Many thanks Cando for your help....I'll keep 'digging'!
Rap
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Frances told my mother as a little girl that she remembers Ned Kelly jumping the fences at their farm when she was a little girl.
Hi Rap, I live in Lancefield and am very interested in local history - it is widely believed that The Kelly Gang held up our local bank.
Let me know if you need any help, I know this is an old post but I can help with local knowledge if you need any, ;D Ted
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Hi Ted,
Thanks for your help! Since my posting, I've had the Lancefield/Romsay H S have a look around all of the records they have for the district....not a lot of new information about the Oakley family I'm afraid. I cannot establish when Jane Oakley nee Hamilton died or where either, and this point alone would help me establish if the children were fostered out to local families when they were young. I cannot validate the Kelly story at all...as all that would know how this fits into the picture, are long gone.
I'm not sure that there is anything left to find Ted! Many thanks any way!
Best wishes
Rap
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Hi Rap
John Oakley is my great grandfather. He was also known as Alfred. My maiden name Is Oakley. I am not sure if you obtained the information you requested. I have a lot of info and would be happy to assist.
Cheers Carole
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https://linctas.ent.sirsidynix.net.au/client/en_AU/names/
Orphanage admission records.
Applicant: Jane A'HONG.....res. Launceston.....20 Jan 1862
A'HONG Walter 20 Sep 1857
A'HONG Abbey 3 years 8 months both baptised by Father BUTLER
(my note....A'HONG is crossed out and replaced with OAKLEY)
Religion Roman Catholic
Father: John OAKLEY....res: not known......religion Protestant......26603
Ship to the Colony: Lady Montague.....bond.....
Mother:Jane HAMILTON.....res: Launceston
Arrival: "Northumberland" about 1854 to Launceston....free....no employment
This womans husband is not to be found and the father of the children (OAKLEY) is not in the colony and no one knows where he is. The woman states that she has had no recourse but to keep these children by prostituting herself. She has another infant of twelve months old named Catherine the paternity of which she cannot vouch for.
This applicant for the admission of *** children named therein of whom I am the mother is made with my sanction and at my request. Jane OHONG
Walter and Abby released to their father, 26 Jun 1862
TAS BDM marriage
23 Jan 1856 Independent Chapel Launceston
AHONG John watchmaker
HAMILTON Jane both adult....both sign.....
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Great find, on the final page, Jane signs her name. I am wondering about her surname... I read the first two letters as Eh ... perhaps the "E" ought to be "C" , but it is NOT "A" ... anyway, I dont read it as Oakley or any variation on that, nor as A'hong... I can see Eheovy ... not "A" and I see final letter as "y" not as "g" .... I wonder who thought the children were surnamed A'hong...
JM
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This thread caught my eye because I know a chap of that name in Devon, UK.
Long list ref Oakley here: https://www.familytreecircles.com/surname_OAKLEY.html
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Hi Rap
John Oakley is my great great grandfather. He was also known as Alfred. My maiden name Is Oakley. I am not sure if you obtained the information you requested. I have a lot of info and would be happy to assist. I still live in a close town to Lancefield.
Cheers Carole
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The Tasmanian Daily News 19 Feb 1856 p2
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/202385844?
....domestic dramas for John and Jane AHONG..........
.... Mrs. AHONG, that she was an immigrant, had arrived in the colony by the name of Jane
DOUGHERTY, her real name being Jane HAMILTON : it was the doctor who made the mistake.
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Cornwall Chronicle 8 Nov 1862 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/72194140?
....being near her accouchement.......
Cornwall Chronicle 20 Aug 1859 p3
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65991959?
...John AHONG defending court order for him to pay maintenance for two of his wife's children.....
.....Joseph ROSS - I am a detective constable attached to the Launceston Police; I know the apellant John A'HONG; I remember his being married some years ago; he has been absent from the colony for a considerable time, his wife lived with a man named HOLDEN during his absence she passed as his wife and had two children; she refused to live with A'HONG the day after they were married; I am not aware that she went back to him afterwards. Her children have no Chinese features about them......
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Hello Carole,
Your pressed the quote button instead of the reply button, the reply button is at the bottom of the thread below the last response.
Regards
Sarah
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Once again Wivenhoe, thank you very much for your great detective work. I can now piece together all of the fragments that I have on Jane Hamilton, although I doubt that we will ever know the paternity of all of her children. I have never come across any mention of John Ahong, but I can see now how John Oakley would fit in to Jane's life and the birth of her known children. In a world where there was no welfare, I do feel sorry for the path that took Jane to her early death, and the disjointed lives that her children lived. On a positive note, all of her children that I have researched, have led a good, family orientated, productive life and her descendants have proven themselves to be good people. I will revisit Tassie Archives with a fresh outlook now that I have your great information. Thank you very much. Rap.
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I am the great great granddaughter of John and Jane. I am a direct Oakley ancestor and still live in the area. I have the full family tree and stories of the family. I am more than happy to share the info.
Cheer Carole
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Ancestry Tasmania Reports of Crime
3 Jan 1862
Discharged from Port Arthur on the 16th instant -
OAKLEY John, FS per Lady Montague (tried) Oatlands 28 Dec 1858
https://stors.tas.gov.au/SC32-1-7$init=SC32-1-7_0263 (series SC32) page 244
29 Dec 1858
OAKLEY John 26603 FS plea guilty stealing horse
Cornwall Chronicle 22 Jun 1861 p5
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65567961?
Police Office
Assaults....
Informations laid by Samuel DOWNES against James McINTYRE, alias ROSS, and J. A'HONG, for
having assaulted him, were both dismissed.
Tasmania birth
10 Dec 1861 ROSS female parents James ROSS, labourer / Jane ROSS formerly HAMILTON
Informant James ROSS, Launceston, father.....his mark
Registered 10 Jan 1862
John OAKLEY is in prison from Dec 1858 to Dec 1861
Jane has two children admitted to the orphanage Jan 1862...released to "father" Jun 1862.
I think that children Walter and Abby are Walter and ........Alby? (Albert)
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Hello Carole
What children do you have born to Jane HAMILTON.........when and where please.
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I am so interested in these posts. My name is Clare Anderson and I am an academic historian. I have spent almost 30 years researching the history of transportation from British colonies to British penal colonies. I am now starting new work on the history of descent and descendants of black, Creole, and Asian convicts. NSW/ VDL are included in this work. Ahong really interests me! Would any of you be willing to talk to me about your family history? I would be so grateful. You can find my email address by clicking on this link (I don't want to paste it directly here), https://le.ac.uk/people/clare-anderson Many thanks for reading, and best wishes to all, Clare.