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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: corisande on Thursday 25 March 10 15:56 GMT (UK)
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Harry or Henry Burke was b Dublin circa 1895.
He appears in 1911 census living with an uncle and aunt (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Wood_Quay/68293/) at Wood Quay, Dublin.
He later joins the British Army,11438 Private Henry, in Royal Dublin Fusiliers.
He is captured in 1914, goes to a POW camp, joins Casement's Irish Brigade.
After WW1 he returns to Ireland where Keogh (Sgt Major of Irish Brigade) writes post Irish Independence that
"Harry Burke is still doing a penal servitude term in an English prison on a trumped up charge. In the Black and Tan struggle he rendered valuable service to the Intelligence Department of the Irish Republican Army"
Burke himself did not apply for his WW1 medals, but his father applied on his behalf, W F Burke of 2 Meckenburgh Lane, Cumberland St, Dublin
Anybody any ideas as to why Henry Burke was languishing in an English prison. There is no instance recorded of anyone in the Irish Brigade being put in prison, and the "political" prisoners like Dowling and the Connaught Ranger mutineers were released by then.
As far as I was aware there were no "residual" Irish prisoners in English prisons after the release of Dowling in Feb 1924.
I stand open to correction. But why was Henry Burke in an English prison, what was the "trumped up charge"?
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Strangely, he never got a mention in the Dail Debates.
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/plweb-cgi/fastweb?TemplateName=search.tmpl&view=oho-view
Dara.
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Dara
Thanks,
The words were written by Michael Keogh, who can be a little imprecise with the facts.
It may only mean that Burke was in prison in England for house-breaking, or whatever. But if he really was something to do with Irish Intelligence, it should come out somewhere, you would think.
Mind you does not always, my threads on Rootsweb on Maurice Meade in Limerick IRA never got anything, nor the shooting of Jeremiah O'Callaghan in 1922 in Mallow barracks by a Free State soldier "cleaning his rifle"
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I have not managed to make any progress with this man.
However on looking at what I have, I see that in 1911 census he was living with his aunt and uncle, John and Ellen CUMISKEY
There are a number of spellings of this name. I thought that it would be easy to trace, but I see a number of them in BMD and Griffith
Does anyone know the origin of the name. I thought it must be Eastern Europe, but it appears to be Irish.
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from MacLysaght's Surnames of Ireland
(Mac) Comiskey, Cumesky Mac Cumascaigh (from comascach = confuser) Originally of county Monaghan, but now found mainly in Longford, Cavan & Westmeath see also Comerford
S.
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Shane
Thanks
I like the "comascach = confuser" :)
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corisande
i am very interested in henry burke and have been trying to get information on him for years.how did you get your information with the exception of the 1911 census.i would be very grateful as i would love to follow up on all leads.
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schneider
Welcome to Rootschat
What is your connection to Henry Burke?
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thanks.Im almost tempted to say thats typical of an irishman ask a question and get one in reply.Give me a bit more and ill answer yours. in fact whats your interest ?
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Maybe we had better leave it there - I asked a question which for some reason you do not want to answer.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to ask - that was your first post on Rootchat and you want me to spend some time digging out facts for a reply to you
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apologies.My reply was meant to be humourous not insulting.Im actually very grateful to you for the doors you have already opened for me.Im a relative of henry burke he was my gran uncle.
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My interest is in the Irish Brigade, rather than just Burke
You can start with looking at
http://www.irishbrigade.eu/recruits/burke.html
I have more to write up on his work around Munich in 1919
I would still like to know why he might have been rotting in an English Jail after Irish Independence, when all the political prisoners had been released. Do you know?
What happened to him after he returned from POW in Germany?
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appreciate your coming back to me.
Emily Burke was my grandmother and harrys sister.My father was the only one to talk about harry and they kept in touch up to his dissapeareance in the 1939 / 1940.My father was born in 1921.My dad told me that harry was in the ira and on the run up to his disappearance in england /scotland 1939 1940.Apparently he always carried two revolvers.He would post my dad a picture post card with a view of some part of england / scotland they would simply read dear anthony at the top of the card and harry at the bottom nothing in between.It was also believed that harry tailored some of the irb / ira uniforms during the troubles.I will post anything i recall and any discoveries i make.Really grateful to you.
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So he just disappeared in 1939/1940. The implication being that he was involved with the IRA bombing campaign at that time. Wikipedia gives a list
1939
* January 16: a bomb exploded outside the control room of a large power station, which supplied the whole of south-east England with electricity. It created a large crater in the forecourt of the building. There were no casualties and the control station was reportedly undamaged. A second explosion damaged an overhead cable running from Grand Union Canal to Willesden Power Station.
* January 17: a bomb exploded at Williams Deacons Bank, damaging gas mains.
* February 4: two bombs exploded in the London Underground – one at Tottenham Court Road station and one at Leicester Square station. They were timed suitcase bombs stored in the left-luggage rooms overnight. There were no deaths, although two people were wounded and severe damage was done to the stations.
* February 9: two bombs exploded at King's Cross station.
* March 2: a bomb exploded on an aqueduct for the Grand Union Canal near Stonebridge Park.
* March 23: five bombs exploded at different times during the day. Targets included telephone and gas installations, and the offices of the News Chronicle in Fleet Street.
* March 29: two bombs exploded on Hammersmith Bridge.
* March 31: seven bombs exploded in different parts of the city.
* May 5: two bombs exploded.
* June 10: bombs exploded in thirty post offices and postboxes in London, Birmingham and Manchester.
* June 24: several bombs exploded before or after a republican demonstration (under police protection) demanding the release of IRA volunteers.[4]
* June 24: bombs exploded at the London branches of the Midland Bank, Westminster Bank and Lloyds Bank.
* July 26: two bombs exploded in the London Underground – one in the left-luggage area of King's Cross Station and one in the left-luggage area of London Victoria station. In the King's Cross attack, one man was killed and two wounded. In the Victoria Station attack five were wounded.
1940
* February 6: two bombs exploded in mailbags at Euston Station.
* February 23: two bombs exploded in the West End. The devices had been placed in litter bins. Thirteen people were wounded.
I'll have a root round in the Times to see if I can track down a trial - or if anyone else finds it can they post it here
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great stuff.Im going to dig out the post cards and check for any post office markings or dates.I also have a picture of him ill put it up as soon as i search and find.thanks again
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corisande
iv requested a full copy of wo141/9 and am awaiting an estimate have you viewed same if not ill go ahead
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I think you will find that they will not be able to give you an estimate for that, it comes from a volume that altogether has thousands of pages
I have a photograph copy (http://www.irishbrigade.eu/british-policy/court-martial.html) of the relevant pages of the tome, put I have included the synopsis of them in my overall write up of the Irish Brigade (http://www.irishbrigade.eu/)
I see from my notes that Keogh noted the Harry Burke was still alive in 1960 (when Keogh made the notes) - do you think that is true
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im amazed by that. all i know is that the family believed harry to have disappeared / been killed in england 39/40.for some reason they thought he may have died as a result of a direcr hit in a bomb shelter but that dosent ring real.where does keogh believe he was in 1960.His sister emily died in circa 1955, jack & ellen cumiskey were still alive in early 50s.I find it hard to believe he would have made no contact but life is strange.
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Where does Keogh believe he was in 1960
Keogh does not say, but his notes go through what he thought were the whereabouts of all 56 men from the Irish Brigade in 1960 (when the notes were made)
He says either when the man died if before 1960, whether he was still alive (as with Harry Burke) or whether he did not know if the man were alive or dead.
Keogh is not always 100% accurate, but he did keep up with most of the men from the Irish Brigade (Keogh himself is of course now dead too) On balance I would say that Harry Burke was alive in 1960 and was in contact with Keogh.
When do you think Harry was in an English jail. I cannot find anything in the Times about a trial.
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Another snippet on Burke the tailor :-
1919 Mar. Rahilly (another of the Irish Brigade) found Burke at his Foreign Office chief's house in Berlin. Burke did not stay long as he had joined the republican army, and was on duty that night. Rahilly never did find out why Burke was there, nor did he ever see Burke again.
The reference to the republican army is the German Republican army. It is virtually impossible to get that sort of German Army record in that early post WW1 year
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henry burke born 08/12/1894 to William M Burke and Mary Burke nee Conroy 56 Cook Street.On RFD POW list Egypt appears beside Burkes name does this mean that he was part of 1st batallion at Gallipoli also any idea when keogh made statement saying Burke still in prison.
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This link tells you about the Egypt volunteers (http://www.irishbrigade.eu/egypt.html)
By the autumn of 1915 the Germans had all but abandoned any plans they might have had for a military invasion of Ireland. Casement and Monteith were instructed to "consider striking a blow at England... by joining the army for the invasion of Egypt and helping to free another small nation". When Casement and Monteith put this idea to the 56 members of the Irish Brigade on 3 Dec 1915, only 38 were willing to go along with the idea (their figures).
Nobody ever went to Egypt to fight, it turned out to be an academic exercise.
Sorry I do not have a date for that comment on being in prison, its from Keogh's notes. I have never been able to find out about why he was in prison, and have assumed (probably wrongly) that it was to to with the pre WW2 IRA bombing campaign
Another thought for you, schneider, have you tried to get Burkes Irish army records?
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I didnt realize that there would be any irish army records.Do you mean in relation to 1920-21 ?Would there be such a thing also do you think a visit to kew would be of value ?
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Perhaps Shane or one of the others that knows about Irish Army records can answer that for you
Keogh's notes actually say "Active in Old IRA after WW1 1920 - 1921 in IRA intelligence service"
(Kew will not be of any use - you can search their catalogue online, but unless you can get a trial there would be nothing else)
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I've no first hand experiance with Irish Army research - but from www.military.ie
Military Archives (http://www.military.ie/dfhq/archives/arch.htm)
and
Collections (http://www.military.ie/dfhq/archives/collections.htm)
Since it doesn't seem that Henry was actually in the Irish Army the pre-independence collections would appear to be most relevant. ( Bureau of Military History Collection, 1913-1921 and the Collins collection 1919-1922)
Shane
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Guidance much appreciated, will be followed and reported.Thank you both.
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Reading Kehoes witness statement and he has Harry Burke" still in America October 1952".Im wondering has anybody viewed wo 141/36 Special Series Ref: Trial of Members of the German Irish Brigade.I read that it includes Dowlings trial but does it include any other ?
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It only appears to include references to Dowling's trial. I have been through the file, but do not have photos
If you search the Nat Arch Catalogue, and force the issue by searching WO 141 and put in Burke you get nothing found, but if you put in Dowling it tells you there is a reference
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Reading Kehoes witness statement
Is there much about the Irish Brigade in that witness statement/ From the index Keogh appears to have made either 2 or 3 witness statements
What I find quite surprising is that most of the memoirs have very little about other men. I have just got the memoirs of Maurice Meade from one of his family, and there are virtually no names named for his time in Germany
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Statements ws 741 & 1092.The latter deals with Plunketts involvment in setting up brigade and he has a swipe a Darrell Figgis whom he basically accuses of purchasing inferior wepons for 1916 in order to pocket £500.The former with the brigade includes rates of pay / command structure of ten machine gun teams names individuals in command.ends with list of 56 detailing renk in IB and BA birth place and whether alivr or dead @ 29/10/52.Ihave both statements plus two ofFrank Thornton saved to file if you wanted i could email.
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Thanks, that would be very kind of you. I have PMed my email
They all seemed to enjoy having swipes at other people. I guess because the WS was withheld till the man died, he could say what he liked!
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Hi, I have been following this feed with interest. My grandfathers older brother Christopher Henry Burke, born approx 1994-1996 to Mary Burke and Henry Burke. He joined the British army as Henry/Harry Burke and was said to have joined the IRA and he was not spoken of again by the family. He was a tailor like his father and brothers. I have photos of him before he left home.
It was thought he died and was never seen or heard from again. My grandfather was a Russian Jew who married a catholic woman in Cork Ireland. He would have Russian Jewish connections in England and Ireland. Family members have tried to access his war records without success. There are some simulators to this feed.
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This is quite a long tread and I admit I haven't read all of it.
There is a pension application for a Christopher Henry Burke former British Army made by his wife Lucy
http://mspcsearch.militaryarchives.ie/detail.aspx
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Marriage of Christopher Henry Burke to Lucy Fitzpatrick gives his father as Henry Burke Foreman Tailor.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09740/5534375.pdf
His death in 1923
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1923/05047/4381554.pdf
and Lucy's marriage in 1939 to Samuel O'Connell
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1940/08838/5195645.pdf