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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: jocelyn1024 on Wednesday 24 March 10 03:22 GMT (UK)
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My family has been trying for a number of years to obtain birth/baptismal information on my GG Grandfather Joseph P. Bonivert.
I assume from his ship records that he was born in Lille, France but not sure.
Country of orgin is France
town: Lille
Occupation Tinsmith
Came over on the Ship Favorita August 13, 1864 at the age of 24 via Antwerp, destination Chicago Ill.
I would love to be able to give my mom his birth certificate for a Mother's day gift!
Any info would be appreciated!
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http://www.archivesdepartementales.cg59.fr/?id=recherche_tables_decennales
- has ten year indexes for Nord department (including Lille)
But from other notes on the internet and censuses he lists himself as being born "Belgium". (e.g. in 1880, where he's J. P. Bonwest), 1870, and the listing for "birthplace of father" on his children's records in 1900.
Looking at the ship record on castlegarden.org, it seems to list "Lille" only as place of last residence, not place of birth..
You might want to try local records in the US - if there is a local history book for the area where he settled, local newspaper mentions of his marriage and death, etc.
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Thanks for that info on the archives. We hired a family history/Genealogy specialist about three years ago throught the company "Heirlines", We have not been able to locate death records for Joseph P. Bonivert. His death was recorded from St. Patricks Cemetery in Grass Valley, NNeveda County, CA. HIs grave only shows his name. He married under the name P.J. Bonivert to a Lizzie (Elizabeth) Horrigan October 17, 1872 in Grass Valley, Neveda County, CA. they had eight children Frank, Joseph P (jr), Albert, Amelia, Elizabeth, Dennis, Edward and Elgin. I can find information on him during his life in Grass Valley. We just haven't been able to find his birth or baptismal records. When I did a search at the National Archives/ archives.gov website I found that he listed Lille, France as his place of Orgin. Other websites have that he was born in Belgium. I don't know what to do. It has been a mystrey.
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You can work through the indexes for Lille to see if he (or maybe some family members) appear there.
If any Boniverts married or died there the original records might tell you where they came from in Belgium.
The info on archives.gov, like that at castlegarden.org, ( Germans to America Passenger Data File) gives him as from "France" and "Lille" as last residence only. These records do not say anything about birth. Compare the censuses where he's listed as Belgian.
It is likely he was born in Belgium - Lille is relatively near the border. He or his family might have moved to Lille for a number of reasons - work is the most likely one.
http://www.parks.ca.gov/pages/980/files/appendix%20f-1%20-%20historical%20context(1).pdf
- this mentions him, btw, with first names possibly being "Pascal Joseph"
The land records they refer to:
http://files.usgwarchives.org/ca/nevada/land/nevada-ac.txt
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I went to the Nord Archives website. I input what I could and it came back with 1014 naissances (birth?) between 1833-1842. I dont mind searching through that but I am not able to read the fancy hand script from that time period or maybe it time for me to get glasses??? When I go to the website genealogy.tm.fr it comes back with the following info....however I can not speakor read french.....
Les BONIVERT
figurent sur 4 département(s) dans notre fichier d'actes (N, M, D*) antérieur à 1902.
page page Recherche Nom+Prénom
Aide à la recherche Nombre d'acte(s)
Valeur en unités
Dépt: ARDENNES(08)
Détail des actes: 15 naissance(s) 11 mariage(s), 14 décès,
dont: 6 non-filiatif(s), 9 filiatif(s) incomplet(s), 25 filiatif(s),
Période couverte: 1608-1696 40: acte(s)
155: unité(s)
Dépt: MEUSE(55)
Détail des actes: 1 mariage(s), 2 décès,
dont: 2 non-filiatif(s), 1 filiatif(s),
Période couverte: 1676-1852 3: acte(s)
7: unité(s)
Dépt: NORD(59)
Détail des actes: 2 mariage(s),
dont: 2 non-filiatif(s),
Période couverte: 1826-1850 2: acte(s)
4: unité(s)
Dépt: BELGIQUE
Détail des actes: 3 naissance(s) 1 mariage(s),
dont: 1 non-filiatif(s), 3 filiatif(s),
Période couverte: 1679-1750 4: acte(s)
11: unité(s)
* naissance, mariage, décès
Retour à la liste des noms page page
Vous pouvez affiner votre recherche en choisissant le département et en saisissant le prénom du sujet, le nom du conjoint, le lieu d'origine ou l'année de l'évènement.
Aide à la recherche
Régions disponibles Toutes les régions ARDENNES(08) ->40 acte(s) MEUSE(55) ->3 acte(s) NORD(59) ->2 acte(s) BELGIQUE -> 4 acte(s)
Types d'actes Mariage Naissance Décès Tous les types
le prénom (les premières lettres)
OU
le nom du conjoint (les premières lettres)
OU
le lieu d'origine (naissance, mariage ou décès)
OU
l'année de l'évènement
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Ahhh I did find a way to enlarge the transcript on the Nord archives. I hope I find something!!
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I believe his birth name is Joseph P Bonivert. He has gone under the names of P.J. Bonivert, Pascal Bonivert, Paschel Bonivert, Peter Bonivert from documents I have found when he was in Grass Valley. He did have a son with the same name of Joseph P. Bonivert. So far I haven't located any Boniverts in the lille archives, but I was only searching births. Thanks for your help I appreciate it :)
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I've done a little poking around on the Belgian side, but without much luck.
The Royal Archives in Belgium have only recently started to digitise their records.
Here's the link:
http://arch.arch.be/component/option,com_analyses/Itemid,122/lang,fr_BE/
(The button promising English actually delivers Flemish, so I'd stick with the French...)
No Boniverts of any kind.
Essentially, there is no national registry online, and as far as I can work out, the fiches at the Royal archives are commune based, not surname indexed! In other words, you need to know what commune your relative was born in, in order to find the Birth Certificate.
If you want to keep looking in Lille, just to be sure, the document you referenced with over 1000 "naissances" (yes, births) is in alphabetical order. You'll also need to look in the surrounding suburbs, as "Lille" probably just refers to the centre of the city. (google maps would probably give you some ideas )
The information from the website genealogy.tm.fr essentially says they have only a handful of records in 4 departments (=counties, more or less). They're including Belgium as a county! In Belgium, there are only 3 births, between 1679-1750, so nothing worth spending your money on.
However, here's what I would suggest:
This geneaology website
http://www.genealogie.com/v4/forums/recherches-genealogiques-mains-tendues-f2.html
is the closest to Rootschat in friendliness in French I could find, and they have a section called "Mains tendues" (helping hands) (which is what I've given you the link for). Join up, and post your query. Google have a good translation tool (translate.google.com), but if you get stuck, but if you get really stuck, PM me and I'll translate.
Here's your query, in French.
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Je cherche à trouver l'acte de naissance de mon arrière-arrière grand-père Joseph P. Bonivert (ou parfois: P.J. Bonivert, Pascal Bonivert, Paschel Bonivert, Peter Bonivert).
Il est arrivé à Chicago aux Etats-Unis le 13 aout 1864 par le bateau Favorita, partant d'Antwerpen. Il donnait comme adresse "Lille" mais plusieurs de ses documents pendant sa vie aux E-U montrent son lieu de naissance comme la Belgique.
Comment ferais-je les premiers pas pour trouver son acte de naissance ou d'autres signes de son état civil? Je vous remercie tous de tout aide que vous pourriez me donner.
(Comme je ne parle pas le français, ce message a été rédigé par une amie, alors pardonnez-moi si je vous réponds lentement, car il va me falloir lui demander une traduction... Si jamais vous pourriez répondre en anglais, cela me ferait énormément plaisir.)
Je vous remercie tous d'avance de tout aide que vous pourriez me donner.
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If you plug that into translate.google.com, you'll get a pretty good idea of what it says :-)
Good Luck!
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Thank you so much for the great information. I did join genealogie a few weeks back and posted my Bonivert family tree in hopes that it would link up with someone, or something. I did post what you wrote in the helping hands section. It would be truly amazing if something comes up......hopefully someday! Thanks again!!
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Ozcanuka,
I did get a respomse that said I should also post my message in the Benelux section as well so I did...I got this response that I translated but I am afraid I still don't understand what is being said do you? I don't think it is anything but still...
je suis francais actualement en chomage .je veux demenager en belgique .est ce que jai le droit a quelque chosse comme revenue en attendant de travailler .ou je peux madresser
merci es Jules
Translated:
I am French actualement in unemployment .i want to demenager in Belgium is that jai law has some chosse as revenue in pending work .or I can thank you madresser es Jules
Thank you :)
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How disappointing. Not a reply, just someone trying to figure out how to move to Belgium!
(Translation: I am French, currently unemployed. I want to move to Belgium. Do I have the right to something for income while waiting to work? Where should I ask?) If this is a PM that you've received, I wouldn't bother answering, myself.
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Hi,
On the french website Geneanet, I found BONIVERT:
Lambert Joseph BONIVERT, born 19 September 1854 in Spa, son of Pierre and Elisabeth BEAUPAIN
Catherine Julienne BONIVERT, born in December 1855 in Sart-lez-Spa, daughter of Jean Lambert B. and Marie Françoise LELOUP
Marie BONIVERT born 31 December 1779 in Flémalle-Grande, ...
in Belgium in the area of Liege!
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That is interesting, thank you for the information. My GGGrand Fathers name is Joseph Pascal Bonivert and came over in 1854 at the age of 24. So that would be a fourteen year difference....maybe they are somehow related. I will have to look into it further and see if I can make a link somewhere. Thanks for sending me the information I appreciate it.
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Hi
If you email the town hall in Lille (see below) and ask them for a copy of the birth cert (need to give details name, date of birth (or approx) etc they will send you a copy through the post free of charge. I usually translate my request into French and often get a copy within a week.
Go to
http://www.mairie-lille.fr/fr/Votre_Mairie
click on nous contacter (bottom left under Votre Mairie)
click on envelope logo( top right)
enter message etc and send
you will get automated reply in your email
then wait for the post.
It's a great service!
bonne chance
Geniespot
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hi Jocelyn
I'm completely new here and accidentely read your question for help, while looking myself for a record in Lille.
On the site of archives in Belgium I found the dead of Médard Bonivert in Genappe (not far from Waterloo, Belgium) in 1812, son of Jean Joseph Bonivert and Marie Anne Pirard. He was married to Anne Françoise Lecharlier.
No other records for that period available online for the moment.
As you know perhaps we have three official languages in Belgium: Flemish, French and German. A lot of the data in the digital archives aren't translated.
Being a Flemish former English teacher myself, but living in the French speaking part with a german mother , I could help you at least with the translations of what you find. I have some sites in Flemish and French on genealogy concerning 'county' (département) Nord-Pas de Calais. I've looked there for Bonivert, but didn't find data. Unfortunately Lille isn't yet in the records. So I was happy to find the site with the microfilms of Lille on this forum.
Good luck with your search! 8)
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Hi
Some time ago I had a marriage to find in Lille too. I went to the website http://www.mairie-lille.fr/en/pied-page/contactez-nous_1 (which is the contact page in English for the city. I asked if they could give me any information about the marriage giving them all the details that I had (I actually translated my query into French via Google). I was really surprised to receive a copy of the marriage certificate in the post. No charge!
Good luck with your search. :)
Beat wishes
geniespot