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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Anglesey => Topic started by: liverbirds on Tuesday 22 March 05 00:30 GMT (UK)

Title: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Tuesday 22 March 05 00:30 GMT (UK)
Can any one please help in identifying these places, they have shown on the 1871 census for Liverpool, after my Gt grandmothers birth place of Anglesey she was born in 1846, at first it was thought to be Corwen but the lady who helped with the search has said it could be either Sarwen or Carwen, I have never heard of a place name like,  could it be an area at the time which has now been swamped up.? I have also asked this question to a kind person who helped me on this site but I thought perhaps if I made it a new topic it might arouse some interest, I hope some one can enlighten me. I was quite happy with my roots in  Amlwch, Anglesey, now I have a spanner in the works. thanks for any help, Regards Liverbirds
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: trystan on Friday 25 March 05 00:28 GMT (UK)
Liverbird,

I'm just thowing in an idea here, but when I read "Carwen" I then though it would probably start with "Caer" not "Car" ("Caer" or "Gaer" means roman fort). Then suddenly realised it could be "Gaerwen" which is on the road between Llanfairpwllgwyngyll and Llangefni (on the A5 now). Don't worry if you think that the "C" and the "G" is a big jump of letters, in Welsh the first letter changes depending on what came before it (in the same way as Caernarfon is the Welsh of Carnarvon and Gaer is the Welsh of Chester).

Infact saying "Gaerwen" in a strong Welsh accent could well sound like "Carwen" to an English ear.

Trystan
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Sunday 27 March 05 09:54 BST (UK)
Thank you so much for your help, I will certainly have a look to see if there is any connection with that area, it does sound as though there was some misunderstanding as far as understanding the accent was concerned. Regards Liverbirds
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: trystan on Monday 28 March 05 00:24 BST (UK)
Liverbirds,

Gaerwen has good connections on the road - and I would imagine it always would have done.

If you have any other clues, then let us know!

Trystan :)
PS I went to school there.
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Monday 28 March 05 01:27 BST (UK)
Hi Trystan, thanks so  much for your interest, I have placed another lookup request earlier today, for Catherine Evans and Richard Evans to see if they show on the 1851 census for Gaerwen, some one may know sorry I don't have any other info, it all started with info from a great aunt who was Catherine's daughter and she always said her mother was from Amlwch, but we don't have any birth cert to authenticate, only the 1851 census showing a 5yr old Catherine in Amlwch, the only other 5yr old Catherine on the census, was from Llangristiolus, so it looks as though we are between a rock and a hard place. How large an area would Gaerwen be and is it close to the birth place of the second Catherine? I have wondered if Richard Evans is a brother or father (enumerators mistake) as there is 21 Years difference in age with Catherine, on the 1881 census he is shown with his wife Sarah as brother-in-law to Richard Jones, Catherine's husband, sorry Trystan this is all I have but I do appreciate the help you have given up to now Regards Liverbirds
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: trystan on Friday 08 April 05 21:39 BST (UK)
Wow,

Something strange just happened - I went to www.streetmap.co.uk as I was going to send you a link to Gaerwen - and the first result (click) (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=241500&Y=394500&A=Y&Z=3) had an arrow pointing very near to Amlwch, infact, just to the left of Bull Bay. I looks like a small hamlet. Until today, I thought that there was only one Gaerwen on Anglesey, the second one is shown here (click) (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=248500&Y=371500&A=Y&Z=3)

Trystan
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Thursday 21 April 05 19:22 BST (UK)
Dear Trystan, have just picked up your message after being away for a couple of weeks, thanks for the extra info you have given me another route to go down, when I raised the map up it looked like Burwen to me but it could very well the place I am looking for.and would probably come into the amlwch area. I do thank you for your interest and help cheers for now Liverbirds
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: chris.perry on Saturday 17 December 05 23:48 GMT (UK)
I think the place you are looking for may be Gaerwen, Anglesey. It is not that far onto the island on the Llangefni Road.
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Tuesday 20 December 05 01:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much Chris, this is a strong possibility as Gaerwan could sound very like Carwen to an untrained ear, I think I will have to just go to the area myself as I am not getting a lot further, but do appreciate your input. have a lovely Christmas :)
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: abbeyfield on Sunday 12 February 06 14:46 GMT (UK)
I am certain that Gaerwen is the place you are looking for,I spent my honeymoon there in 1963.
I see you are also looking for Catherine in Amlwch,now the finest site without any doubt whatsoever for Amlwch is Neil Summers site at.
http://www.amlwchdata.co.uk
In the 1851 census of Amlwch it lists 2 Catherines of about the age you are looking for and also at least 1 baptism.
I know it is very unlikely but I am also researching Evans at Amlwch,in my case the family of William Evans,if you find any links with your research drop me a line.
Good hunting
abbeyfield
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Sunday 26 February 06 02:01 GMT (UK)
Hi there , thanks for your input, I had found the Amlwch website previously as you say an excellant site and from there found the 2 Catherine's you have mentioned, and I feel 100% certain that one of them is my Gt grandmother I believe she may have been living with her grandmother, I have followed through on census as I know she lived in Liverpool and she is shown there from 1861 with Richard Evans and Sarah Evans as her parents. Richard being born in Anglesey and Sarah in Aberystwyth, both Richard and Catherine are shown as coming from Carwen and I am as certain as you that it is Gaerwen.She is traceable on census from 1851 through to 1891 Up to now I have not been able to trace her birth cert with Richard as her father, but a marriage cert has turned up in Liverpool for Catherine married to my Gt Grandfather Richard Jones, but her fathers name is shown as William Evans, don't get to excited could he be yours.

The interesting point is that there is approx 6/7 years age  difference between Catherine's parents her mother being the older and it has now been suggested that maybe perhaps her mother was widowed and had remarried, so now I  am applying again for Catherine's birth cert and see if it can provide any more clues, if it does I will let you know , cheers for now Liverbird
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: chris.perry on Sunday 26 February 06 20:43 GMT (UK)
If you havea look at the Genuki website, Holyhead and Amlwch -look at the old map you will find Gaerwen near to Amlwch. That was indeed news for me as I thought there was only one Gaerwen - and I only live 20 miles away! 
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Tuesday 28 February 06 23:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you Chris , I will check that one out. Cheers Liverbird
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: Glenys Williams on Sunday 27 July 14 20:46 BST (UK)
The place by Amlwch is Burwen.  Just a small hamlet
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: dojoto on Wednesday 08 April 15 03:03 BST (UK)
Gaerwen is very close to Llangristiolus as well.  I've found so many little differences/errors on various documents it's hard to take any one of them as 100% accurate.  Don't put too much value on birthdates.  The margin of error on censuses is bigger than you might expect.
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: Diana Humphries on Saturday 15 August 15 10:49 BST (UK)
I grew up on a small farm between Bull Bay and Burwen. One of our neighbouring farms was (is) Gaerwen, well off the beaten track and accessible thro Tyddyn Waen on the A5025. I can imagine a capital G looking like an S?
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: liverbirds on Tuesday 01 September 15 18:56 BST (UK)
Thank you for your input I have just returned from Anglesey and am very satisfied that the area is just off the main road through the island, I also found the area my gt gt grandmother was born in, and it was not shown on the ordinance map but talking with people soon put me on track. And that is what is so great about this forum, everyone wants to help.
Title: Re: Sarwen or Carwen place names in Anglesey
Post by: Diana Humphries on Tuesday 01 September 15 23:43 BST (UK)
Glad you've resolved the problem! Hope you enjoyed the Beautiful Island !