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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Jeremy Pyne on Saturday 20 March 10 08:16 GMT (UK)
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Looking for the family of a Harry Pyne , born Poplar in c 1856. Mother Polly but father's name no known.
Have a bigger family of Pynes in Poplar in the later 19th century but not tied this Harry into them as yet.
Thanks
Jeremy
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Hello Jeremy,
here's a possibility :-\
writing is a bit feint
1861 RG9; Piece: 310; Folio: 9; Page: 11
1 High Street Poplar
Mary Pyne head widow 38 yrs milk dealer
James Pyne son 14 yrs
Mays ??? son Pyne 12 yrs
Agnes Pyne daur 10 yrs
Frederick Pyne son 8 yrs
Mary Pyne daur 7 yrs
Henry Pyne son 6 yrs
all born Poplar
best wishes
heywood
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Having a bit of difficulty finding them before and after.
There is a possibility that Mary is married to a James in 1851 :-\
What other information do you have?
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Hello Jeremy
Polly is a variant of Mary (haven't a clue why)
The 1861 supplied by heywood does look like Pyne and does have a mother with the name of Mary.....the difficulty is, based on the ages of the 1861 why can't I find any of the births of the children!
Bryant
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Hi Bryant,
that's why I posted that info re Polly/Mary but as you have also found, they are difficult to trace in other censuses.
It's disappointing that Jeremy hasn't been back to thank, confirm or add to this enquiry since the post.
I spent quite some time searching for the family, as you no doubt did too.
heywood
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Hello heywood
Jeremy is around........
Agnes Pyne (surname appears to be most common in Devon) aged 10 in 1861?
The only Agnes Pyne born freebmd in the search locality is Agnes Mary Anne Pyne born Mar qtr 1857 Poplar, in 1871 she appears to be in Devon?
1871 census
St Mary Church, Foxland Road, Portland View, Newton Abbot, Devonshire
Agnes Pyne.........14.........orphan pupil..............London
Bryant
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I'm drawn to this family which has certain elements that fit and lots that are way off but it needs more work to dismiss................or prolong
1851 census
5, West Street, Saint Mary Magdalen Bermondsey, Southwark
James Mays..........Head....60.....Journeyman Cooper....Dagenham, Essex
Elizabeth..."..........Wife.....57.........................................Great Lyth, Essex
Joseph......."..........Son......21 (unm)..................E H Jn RD, James Street
Hepzitah Cose......Daur.....30 (Married).........................Poplar, Middlesex
Thomas.....".....Grand Son...7........................................Bermondsey, Surrey
Richard Smith...Son In Law..23........Ship Joiner............Rotherhithe, Surrey
Mary A......."..........Daur.......28......................................Poplar, Middlesex
Mary A.......".....Grand Daur..4 months...........................Bermondsey, Surrey
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*Richard Henry Smith married Mary Ann Mays 1849 Jun qtr, Bermondsey R.D
*A Richard Henry Smith died St Pancras 1855?......bit of a long shot
Bryant
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Hi Bryant,
I was inclined to think that an entry in 1851 may have been Mary- from memory she was married to James and there was a dairy connection :D
I'm not sure that these are conencted to Jeremy- perhaps more of a general interest in the Pyne name but I was hoping that he would come back to review our findings and comment. I did spend quite some time searching for the family (Agnes sounds interesting but the age is wrong ???) .
If Jeremy had offered some opinion, I would have tried to look further.
thanks for your interest anyway Bryant ;D Jeremy doesn't seem to have been around for a couple of days, so hopefully all is well and he will be back.
heywood
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Dear both
So sorry I have not responded sooner to the replies above. I have been travelling with work for a few dys and things have been hectic.
I am very grateful for the investigation and suggestions above.
My interest is in trying to link a recent reference I came across to a Harry Pyne from Poplar to another Pyne family in Poplar stemming from a Daniel Pyne born in c1814. He had several children in the 40's and 50's with wife Mary Ann, but clearly a different set to the family of Mary identified below. Possible of course that Mary's husband was a relation to Daniel.This is part of a collection of Pyne trees I have built over several years and continuing something of a one named study aiming to link as many as poss.
Pyne is generally a westcountry name , most families stemming from Devon and Somerset . The reference to Agnes down in Newton Abbot in 1871 is very interesting , possibly highlighting a family connection there.
Many thanks once again and forgive my tardiness.
Jeremy
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Jeremy,
you are forgiven ;)
It's just nice to know which track we're on when we find these folk.
Did Daniel have a relative James?
heywood
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This is the one I wondered about:
1851 HO107; Piece: 1556; Folio: 294; Page: 54
173 Canton Place, Poplar
Canton Dairy
James Pyne 28 yrs Dairyman b Poplar
Mary Pyne 27 yrs b Limehouse
Mary Ann Pyne 7 months b Limehouse
have you come across these?
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Thanks Heywood
Daniel named a son James, born 1852, so could be a family name?. It seems he did have a brother somewhere and possibly one that died fairly young as at some point later (sorry my records on this are not great) he had a nephew, Edward Pyne (born 1865 Poplar) living with him.
Jeremy
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Hi Jeremy
Have just joined and saw that you searching in the same area as me.
Im Derek Pyne and I was born in Stepney and Lived in Poplar and Bow Until 1995. I been doing my family researching and Im from Daniel born 1814. Think Daniel had a brother James Michael born 1824 and he married a Mary around 1850. Been getting in a muddle abit because its look like James was called Michael.
James Michael had a son James Maraduke born 1854 and poss Edward Daniel born 1864.
have gone back to Daniel but trying to find out if a John and Margaret from Ireland are parents
Derek
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Hi Derek
I will send you a personal reply. Would be good to exchange notes further.
Regards
Jeremy
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Hi Derek
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
You need to make a couple more posts before you can access the personal message (pm) system.
Please read our guidelines for posting here
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting_guide.php
and then use the pm system to exchange email addresses.
Dawn
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Hi Jeremy
Thanks for the message back.
My line is Daniel 1814, John 1844, William 1873. Daniel 1906, Daniel (my father) 1929 and me which my middle name is of course Daniel. I have not got a family tree set up yet on the computer only on papers.
I'm guessing that Daniel's father is John born in Ireland in 1781 and married to Margaret born 1791 because the 1841 census show Daniel living in around Dingle lane with no parents (only looks like siblings) and John and Margaret in the Poplar Workhouse which was very near to Dingle lane. also Daniel's eldest son is John.
Had lots of problems with James as poss called Michael.
Edward is Right I have the marrage cert for him. Later the moved to Canada where Edward and his son Michael was in the Canadi en army during WW1.
Will be in touch again soon.
Derek
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One of my parents had a cousin who married into a Pine or Pyne Family in the
Poplar Area ( Now Tower Hamlets) East End of London the late 1850's.
The above referenced cousin's first name was Bridget--and very possible that
Bridget's family originated in Ireland.
Would add that many many Irish Families left Ireland from 1850 and on, due the the Irish Famine and settled in either the East End of London or Liverpool.
Mary
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In reference to Dingle Lane, in Poplar east end of London
It appears that several of my relatives lived in Dingle Lane
and other areas of Poplar.
Would add that the area had a large population of people from all
over England and Ireland---perhaps due to the available work
in the local docks.
Happy to exchange family research regarding my Pine/Pyne families
in Poplar (now Tower Hamlets)
MARY
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Hi Jeremy,
I did find a possible in 1871 when you first posted but forgot to reply, apologies if you have details already
Rg10/586 57/11
5, Dingle Lane, Poplar
In Sumner household next door to Daniel Pyne
Harry Pyne nephew 14 Middlesex, Poplar
Polly Pyne Sister in law unm 44 " "
Cathy :)
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Hi
That's intresting a few months ago I ordered a marrage cert for a Margaret Pyne born around 1827 poss a sister to Daniel. Maragret married a Joseph Sumners or Summers in 1849. It has John Pyne as the father.
Derek
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Dear all
Seems like an interesting picture is building up here, tying in with Derek's theory of a family stemming from an Irish root. As mentioned in an earlier post, the Pyne name is generally a west country one but a branch of the Devon family settled in Ireland in the 16th century. There are a series of articles in back copies of the Irish Genealogist that document the central descendants from this line but several families sprang up , mostly in county Cork and a number inevitably found there way back to England again.
I would be happy to continue to build up my records of the Poplar Pynes and would be very interested with exchangeing notes further , praps by post. If Derek or Mary would like to drop me a personal message or have any questions I might be able to help with let me know.
Derek - picking up on your lineI only had the sequence from Derek , , John and William b 1873 but no further (have 5 siblings of Williams) so would be interested in addingfurther. I think my original records on this group came from a descendant of John's brother George, b 1848, a carman who married a Sarah Jax or Jacks?
Regards
Jeremy
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Hi
John did have a few brothers Daniel born 1846 Joseph who was born in 1850 and died 1853. James born around 1853 who married Ellen (Eleanor Ann Belbin) and there was a George born 1848 who married a Sarah Fix in 1870. John son William ( my great grandfather) married a Mary Ann Dowling in 1897. They had sons William born 1898. Daniel (my grandfather) born 1906 and poss a Thomas born 1902 or poss a Frederick born 1913 but I'm not to sure about the last 2. they lived around the Limehouse area. my grandfather Daniel married Anne M Adkins in 1929