RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Tabbitha on Friday 19 March 10 22:48 GMT (UK)
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Hi Rootschatters.I am trying to piece together John Jack Morris's [ my 2x Gt.Uncle ] 'life' after he enlisted.My mum says no one in the family [ ie my gran and Gt.Gran ] knew what happened to him.
I have found lots of Morris entries,but not knowing his regiment,its difficult to narrow it down.
He was born and raised in Manchester ,so would most likely of joined the Manchester regiment or Fusiliers.
He was a cook in the regiment and hopefully the attached photo will identify the regiment.
Many thanks in anticipation
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Hard to tell any Regt details, the badges are very small.
Fleet Pond (and Camp) is part of the army training ground at Aldershot.
Can you provide a larger image of the men in uniform.
Manchester based Regts also included the South Lancs at Warrington, and the Kings Liverpool, also Warrington, and the East Lancs at Preston - all recruited in the Manchester area.
Pete
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The CSM also has regimental bars on his epaulettes - I believe this may give us a 'latest' date the photo could have been taken, plus they appear to be wearing the post-1915 tunic?
scrimnet? you've got better eyesight than me.
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Thanks for the replies,here is a more detailed close up of the uniforms
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The chap in close-up there appears to be Royal Army Medical Corps.
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The Fleet Pond Camp was used by Royal Army Medical Corp until about 1962.
In 1854 the larger portion of the pond was to come under the jurisdiction of the Army as part of the military estate attached to Aldershot camp, which was to remain the case until as late as 1972, when the land was finally sold to what was to eventually become Hart District Council.
Fleet Pond is dotted with a number of small islands, some real, and some artificial - constructed by the Royal Engineers in late late nineteenth century.
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Many thanks.Hopefully I can move on to my next step of trying to identify where Jack/John went from this picture being taken. Do you think I need to be looking for J Morris as a member of the Army Catering Core or Medical core ?
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In the photo....which is he? I know you mention he was a cook, but if is in uniform in the photo he may not be.
Also, was he killed in service?
The catering corps did not exist at the time this photo was taken, so he would be part of the parent regiment:
The army Catering Corps did not exist as a separate Corps in the Army until the 1st January 1965 when it was granted the status of an independent Corps in its own right, under the direction of the Quartermaster General. Until then the Catering Corps had been under the control of the Royal Army Service Corps since its formation on the 22nd March 1941 under Army order 35 of 1941. Prior to that, the Regiments had their own cooks, some of whom were trained in one of the two cookery schools which existed in Aldershot and Poona in India.
Which makes things harder really, 'cos he may have been at the cookery school prior to going on to his own regiment!
Pete
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Thanks for replying Pete.
On the original photo he is left [as we look at the screen] of the chap in uniform that I did a close up of.I did read about the ACC not starting up till after the photo was taken, but I had already asked by then ,sorry.
He didnt die in the war.
The only other info I have is that he was born 1891 and lived in Hulme,Manchester before the Army.
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I agree with Neil that the Sgt appears to be RAMC - if you look at the WW1 section of this link:
http://www.ams-museum.org.uk/historyRAMC.htm
you will see the same badge above the stripes.
If you are looking for a start point then a cook in the RAMC would be a reasonable start point, although it would still be worth looking at cook training at Aldershot if you get a dead end with the RAMC.
I'd still like Scrimnets advice on the metal epp. badges as they will help date the photo.
pete.
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Also on here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,405345.0.html
Phil
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The cookhouse/tent in the background looks the same as the one in the background of the 1913 photo, but taken a couple of years later.
Did the RAMC have a TA battalion?
pete
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Also on here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,405345.0.html
Phil
I cant beleive Ive been looking that long :P
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Doesn't time fly when you're having fun ;D
Pete,
The RAMC existed within the Territorial structure. No doubt Scrimnet knows the finer points (I don't).
Phil
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only been looking on the NA site and I am lost already.
I cant actually read any records.just headings.
Ive never been able to navigate around that site , ::), must be cos Im blonde
*edit* and who is Scrimnet ??
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*edit* and who is Scrimnet ??
Our Armed Forces moderator, fount of knowledge on uniforms and all-round guru!!
;D ;D
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Me!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Oh blimey Neil...Setting me up for a fall!!
Most of the questions were answered on the last post in September ;)
The RAMC TA units were area / county wide; the 3 layer shoulder titles would have "T" "RAMC" and then something like "East Anglian" or "West Riding" and the such like.
Date? Ummmm...betwixt 1908 and 1918. A ten yr window, but the Sgt has neither medal ribbons or any other uniform embellishments (that I can see!!). They are 1907 ptn tunics, so the above date is the best we can do pro tem!
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Regiments Corps and units had their own cooks, some of whom were trained in one of the two cookery schools which existed in Aldershot and Poona in India. Trade pay was introduced in 1936, but equipment was poor and in many units meals were collected in bulk from the kitchen for consumption in the barracks rooms. The Army Catering Corps (Andy Capp Commandos / Aldershot Concrete Company) was not formed until 1941.
This is why the RAMC trg Manuals all had sections of fortifying meals for patients and camp cookery.
Have you any idea as to whom in the pic is your relly??
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Me!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
Most of the questions were answered on the last post in September ;)
Pleased to meet you and yes but I had forgotten I had posted that on here and didnt remember what it said. ;
I have just re-read the other thread and see we had conversed before.
I have short term memory loss [ seriously] and didnt remember the great responses I had,had previously,so thanks once again :)
Sadly I am no further on in finding anything more about Mr.Morris.I know this can take years sometimes though,so I am not put off ,and will update if I ever find anything more out.
Have you any idea as to whom in the pic is your relly??
Yes as per
Thanks for replying Pete.
On the original photo he is left [as we look at the screen] of the chap in uniform that I did a close up of.I did read about the ACC not starting up till after the photo was taken, but I had already asked by then ,sorry.
He didnt die in the war.
The only other info I have is that he was born 1891 and lived in Hulme,Manchester before the Army.
regards tabby
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He's ome of the site's living reference books, armed with an inexhaustible knowledge and unbelievable eyesight. He'll be along at somepoint, I think it was he that identified the photo's as a TA unit, need to re-read the other post again.
I think you could use the info so far and look for either service history or medal records for his name, using the RAMC or RAMC(TA) as a start point.
Pete
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He's ome of the site's living reference books, armed with an inexhaustible knowledge and unbelievable eyesight. He'll be along at somepoint, I think it was he that identified the photo's as a TA unit, need to re-read the other post again.
I think you could use the info so far and look for either service history or medal records for his name, using the RAMC or RAMC(TA) as a start point.
Pete
Blimey....How do I live up to all this... :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
Thank you chaps
It is usually a group effort as well...I am but a cog...For Victorian stuff see Isandlwana, and for paperwork Ken (km1971)...We all have strong points
Neil and Pete are vg as well!!
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Tabbitha,
By rights, if he was from the Manchester area, he would probably have been with East Lancs Field Ambulance.
I had a quick look last night through the John and Jack Morris RAMC medal index cards. Unless there is a 1917 six digit service number on the MIC, it is virtually impossible to pick anyone out.
I did find one possible, but he was with West Lancs FA post-1917:
Jack Morris, Private 1427 and 341106 RAMC.
Phil
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Tabbitha,
By rights, if he was from the Manchester area, he would probably have been with East Lancs Field Ambulance.
I had a quick look last night through the John and Jack Morris RAMC medal index cards. Unless there is a 1917 six digit service number on the MIC, it is virtually impossible to pick anyone out.
I did find one possible, but he was with West Lancs FA post-1917:
Jack Morris, Private 1427 and 341106 RAMC.
Phil
Yes indeed Phil,hence why the task has been so hard with such little info.
If only they put dates of birth on the service records it would go part way to helping.
However atm, I am going through each record I can find thats a 'possible' .Eventually I will collate and everything and try find the right one.
You have all been so kind with your ideas & suggestions and at least I have a better knowledge of what to actually aim for other than just a name. :)
Then I
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And of course Phil is the one who digs....
;)
Didnt mean to leave you out mate!
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And of course Phil is the one who digs....
;)
Didnt mean to leave you out mate!
Don't mention it ......... but as you have, thank you. ;D
Phil