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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: maccalenny on Friday 19 March 10 20:45 GMT (UK)
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hi - i have a boxful of old photos, some of which are annotated. This one is of one of my g-g-granny's brothers - born between 1845 and 1864 (does not narrow i down much i know!). My g-aunt, who owned the photos, had written on the back that 'he was too grand for them'. Wondered if anyone recognises his waistcoat thing?
Thanks
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I can't comment on the regalia but his formal dress style could be 1870's on,however the pocket handkerchief would put this more into the 80's.The embossed card stock is a more 1890's style but as his trousers are uncreased would date this early.Late 1880's - early 1890's I would suggest.A scan of the back might give a more accurate date.He looks late 40's early 50's.
jim
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Might be the Buffs.
jim
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a clean
Irene
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Greeting’s ….Folks.
If it helps :~
1899. Wrights Trade Directory :~
Wm. Henry Warwick. Photographers & Picture framers
173. Belgrave-gate
S.A. Warwick Photographers & Picture Framers
114 Church-gate Leicester.
MIKE. ……
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Hi maccalenny :)
We've had quite a few photos posted recently with men in regalia associated with friendly/fraternal societies, and it's pretty near impossible to pin down which societies they were in unless it was one of the larger organisations (such as Masons, Oddfellows etc.) as there were hundreds of them in the 19th century.
Apparently the Freemasons will attempt to identify regalia such as this collar, even if it's not masonic - here is a link: http://www.freemasonry.london.museum/museum.php
We've been trying to identify another chap in someone else's photo, and he has even an more elaborate collar than your fellow, but it's proving very difficult even so :-\ http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,443595.30.html
Cheers
Prue
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Hi - thanks everyone for yout thoughts, and for the beautiful clean-up job! I should have said at the start - the back is plain, same grey-green as the surround of the picture.
kate
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Might be the Buffs.
jim
Hoping Jim can help me further with this one, after a very long interlude and a change of username when i couldn’t get into my old account!
Still trying to narrow down his identity between two brothers.
Jim, you mentioned that this gentleman’s waistcoat might be The Buffs. I’ve googled this now, and realise it is an army battalion - I didn’t get the reference before. Can I ask how you are able to identify it? One of the brothers was indeed in The Buffs, so hopefully this is the end of the quest for him.
Thank you so much.
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The Buffs is also short for the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes (RAOB), and this waistcoat looks similar to their regalia.
I would say that he has nothing to do with the army regiment.
Michael.
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Have you searched the brothers on census' to see if there are clues or info. on the BMDs of any children?
Annie
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Thank you both for responses. The clarification on ‘The Buffs’ makes sense and gives another avenue to explore - thank you.
One brother was definitely in the masons, and the age is about right, so I’m leaning towards him. The other is probably too young and I’m not aware of a link to the masons, but he lived in the right area for the photo studio. I’ve been through all the census records etc - now trying newspaper records to give some more information.
Many thanks
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There are initials on the two badges on the Collar, F.S. is on his left lapel but the other is unclear. I've looked up RAOB on their website & Wiki and they do not seem to have any offices with those initials.
The waistcoat/collar is unlike any Freemason regalia I'm aware of, so which Order he is a member of is a puzzle.
Michael.
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What were the brother's names?
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They were Henry and Sydney Herbert. There were other brothers too, that I’ve found varying amounts out about - John, James, Albert and Walter. They originated in Abberley, Worcestershire.
I’ve attached Henry’s gravestone - definitely in the Freemasons!
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There is a long death notice in the Folkestone, Hythe, Sandgate & Cheriton Herald - Saturday 20 January 1906, for a Henry Herbert who died on 11th January 1906.
It's all about his life as a mason, the masons who went to his funeral and other details of his life. It's too long for me to copy out the whole thing, but here are some of the main details.
"He was a Past Grand Standard bearer of the Province of Kent, a Past W.M. of the military jubilee lodge and at the time of his death, he held the office of treasurer of the Lodge. He was also a Steward of the Boys' and Girls' Masonic institution."
There is a brief list of condolence notices, one of which reads "From Lieut-Colonel Hamilton, his old commander in 'The Buffs'."
So I would say, if it is Herbert, his regalia could be connected to one of those offices.
EDIT: I see upthread someone had asked which lodge he was a member of. The lodge 'Military Jubilee Lodge, Royal Arch Chapter No 2,195' is specifically listed in the obit.
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I now think the person in the photo is a member of the OddFellows, and the collar appears to be that of Financial Secretary who sits with the Treasurer.
Michael.
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It’s great to see someone wearing the same collar style as my man!
From a quick google, although Oddfellows and masons were separate organisations, some people were in both.
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Just a side issue - it is quite confusing to use the term "Buffs" for members of the RAOB. This may be the nickname used by members, but it sent the enquirer down the path after the East Kent Regiment also know as the Buffs!