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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: Mike Thw on Thursday 18 March 10 13:40 GMT (UK)

Title: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mike Thw on Thursday 18 March 10 13:40 GMT (UK)
In 1881 at Ref RG11/1375/65/16 there is a William R Penwill (c1852, Plymouth); his wife Jessy (c1853, Exeter and daughter Ethel M (1880, Islington, Middlesex).

In 1901 he is Richard Penwell, living in Leeds - same person though :)

I'd be grateful if somebody can find a marriage for William Richard and Jessy

I've put it in the Devon queries 'cos they were both born in Devon. :P
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 18 March 10 13:55 GMT (UK)
cant see a marriage.


Consider getting the child (Edith, not Ethel - looking at the census page) Birth Certificate to show Jessy's maiden name ?

Births Dec 1879   
Penwill  Edith Marian     Islington  1b 349   


or her younger sister, shown in the 1901 census.

Births Dec 1888   
PENWILL  Clara Augusta    Edmonton  3a 362

Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mike Thw on Thursday 18 March 10 18:56 GMT (UK)
Trying the "cheap" way first :P
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 18 March 10 19:07 GMT (UK)
you're most welcome   :P
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: tazzie on Thursday 18 March 10 19:08 GMT (UK)


  Hi ...

  Banns where called ...

 William Richard Penwill
 Jessie Hammett                  18 June 1876 St Mary Islington
 William state of this parish
 Jessie of West Teingmouth.

  Tazzie
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 18 March 10 19:11 GMT (UK)
no marriage tho'  :(


and I hesitated about using that info due to  http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,406223.0.html
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: tazzie on Thursday 18 March 10 19:15 GMT (UK)


  Aha....

  yes there is but back in Devon .....

  just found this  Newton Abbott 1876
  William Richard PENVILL  5b 261
  Jessie Hammett
  Jessy Hammett  5b 261  1876 qt3

 Tazzie
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mort29 on Thursday 18 March 10 19:17 GMT (UK)
brilliant !   ;)


warmed the cockles of a cheapskates heart I'd say   ;)
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mike Thw on Friday 19 March 10 09:15 GMT (UK)
Excellent!!  ;D

Thanks
Mike
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: maheraw on Wednesday 12 January 11 00:18 GMT (UK)
Attn Mike Thw
I am researching the PENWILL's if you would care to contact.

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Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: homeleejo on Wednesday 17 July 13 19:59 BST (UK)
I am also researching a Penwill/ Penwell branch in Devon and have several William Penwill's on my line
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JoGW on Wednesday 25 September 13 21:37 BST (UK)
Hi

long time after original post, but wondered whether you had any info to share on Clara Augusta Penwill. She was my great grandmother and was a bit mysterious!

thanks

Jo
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: homeleejo on Wednesday 25 September 13 22:52 BST (UK)
Hi

I have not come Across anyone with the Name Clara Augusta Penwill along the branches of my tree so far unless she is a decedent from one of the siblings along the way sorry i cant be of any more help to you have any dates for her ?
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Mike Thw on Thursday 26 September 13 08:57 BST (UK)
I've very little paperwork to back up the following:

Clara Augusta Penwill, b 1889, Bowes Park, London. Married Walter H Harris from Merthyr Tydfil in 1909, reg Plymouth. One son (by 1911 census) Herbert 1910 . Nothing later.

Youngest Dau of William R and Jesse,

If you are interested, I can take the Penwill line back to George c1770 who married an Elizabeth Lavers
in Newton Ferrers, Devon on 20 Dec 1792.
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JoGW on Thursday 26 September 13 22:00 BST (UK)
Thanks, that's certainly the right Clara.  I also found that she had married Walter Herbert Harris in 1909 and had a son Herbert William Harris in 1910 in Devon, but can find no record of what happened to Walter and their son, which really would interest me. She was in London with Acland Ernest Vicary by 1917 as her and her new 'husband' had my grandmother in early 1917 in Lambeth.  I have never managed to find a record of their marriage either and suspect they never did marry. Acland Ernest Vicary has only ever been traceable by military records as I doubt his name was really Acland, but invented when he joined up! The two of them were rather shady at times and moved around a lot both in England and on the continent.

I've also reached George Penwill and Elizabeth Lavers - haven't got any further on the Penwills, but did get a couple more generations back on the Lavers if you're interested?
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JaneyCanuck on Sunday 29 September 13 02:39 BST (UK)
I would look into these records for Clara's husband Walter and son William.

Walter Herbert Harris's birth was registered Sep quarter 1885 in Merthyr Tydfil.
There is a Walter H Harris born abt 1885 death registered in Plymouth in Dec quarter 1952.

Herbert William G Harris's birth was registered in Sep quarter 1909 in Plymouth.
There is a Herbert W G Harris marriage to Lilian M Rowe registered in Devonport in 1934.
Lilian M Harris born abt 1915 died Sep quarter 1944 in Plymouth could be a match for Lilian M Rowe birth reg Dec quarter 1914 in Devonport.
There is then another Herbert W G Harris marriage in Plymouth in 1954 to Muriel B L M Thompson/Jarvis.
Muriel B L M Harris born abt 1913 died 1966 in Plymouth, a match for Muriel B L M Jarvis born Dec quarter 1913 in East Stonehouse.

Some names possibly to be getting on with. ;)

If my guess as to a child of the Harris-Rowe marriage is correct, the child is living in Plymouth at present. I will PM you that info if you like JoGW, if you add one more post to the thread to make three.
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JaneyCanuck on Sunday 29 September 13 03:42 BST (UK)
And I'm going to bet that this is your Acland Ernest Vicary in 1911:

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XWNC-4BH

Ernest Vicary, aged 25, born Hammersmith, in the barracks in Colchester, West Yorkshire Regiment.

The medal card for Acland Ernest Vicary shows him in the 2nd West Yorkshire Regiment, 3rd Batallion.

In 1901, he is shown as Ernest King at Ancestry, son of Thomas J Alton King and Elizabeth King, in Lambeth. An Ancestry user has corrected the name to read as it does on the image, Vicary, misread as King for the whole family. I may know that user! Stupid Ancestry is refusing to show the profile, but if it is the same person, I can contact them another way if you would like. The user doesn't mention whether they are connected with the family.
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JoGW on Sunday 29 September 13 20:53 BST (UK)
Thanks, JaneyCanuck! Yes, I'd appreciate it if you could PM me about Harris-Rowe family and ask the person you think might have more info on the Vicary/King family.  I've followed up a number of families online trying to find Acland Ernest Vicary, but none have been tremendously convincing so far.
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JaneyCanuck on Sunday 29 September 13 21:53 BST (UK)
I've PMed you and sent a message to somebody who can send a message to the person who is hopefully the Ancestry user. ;)

I wouldn't have much doubt that the Ernest Vicary I pointed to is your Acland Ernest Vicary. Check out the military info on the medal card for Acland Ernest Vicary and then the full info for Ernest Vicary in the 1911 census (ah, I will PM you again).
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JoGW on Sunday 29 September 13 22:28 BST (UK)
Many thanks for PMs and info.  Yes, think the medal card and 1911 census tie up and just had another go at finding a marriage for him too - successfully at last.  Internet has thankfully moved things on a bit since I last did family history research in 2006.  Acland E Vicary married Cherry Harries (one of Clara Augusta Penwill's known versions of her name) in 3rd quarter of 1917 in Croydon.  I remember spending hours in the Family Records Centre in London searching registers, but have finally filled in a blank!   :)
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JaneyCanuck on Sunday 29 September 13 22:42 BST (UK)
Aha, well there you are! I hadn't looked for that even. ;)

So ... Clara was a bigamist? Or there was a divorce.

I'll let you know if the message gets to the Ancestry user -- I haven't run into her myself, at another forum, in at least a couple of years; I've asked others to pass the message to her to look at this thread since I'm not paid up there, so she might just come over here herself.
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: Ozibird on Tuesday 15 October 13 22:16 BST (UK)
Sorry folks for delayed reply. I've been travelling out of email contact and only just getting over the withdrawal symptoms.

I can't help, unfortunately. I was looking for my Kings from Finchley and found Elizabeth, saw the transcription error and sent in the Alternate Information report. I'm so pleased it actually helped someone.


Ozibird
Title: Re: Missing Marriage
Post by: JaneyCanuck on Wednesday 16 October 13 16:51 BST (UK)
Hey Ozi, long time no see! I guess Cyn or somebody got the message to you. ;)

Yes, we correcting busybodies are indeed a great help sometimes. Thanks for letting us know about this one!