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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: RSMACL on Monday 15 March 10 23:30 GMT (UK)
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I am starting a new topic (from stream 'Harriet & Isabella McDonald to Canada') as am having real problems in finding out more about this person, and some kind person(s) may be able to help me, as they have in the past.
Cousin Stephen MacDonald (bigmac1x) in Toronto has also been persistently working on this, to no avail.
William McDonald (or MacDonald - family name was changed to Mac in Canada) was born 21 June, 1887 in Cullicudden, Resolis, Ross & Cromarty, Scotland, and emigrated in Canada in 1910. He is older brother of above two girls, and he lived with his older brother Thomas Calder McDonald (emig. 1906) and a Joseph McDonald (emig. 1890 - who later married Harriet, William's sister) at 125 Wellington St. Sth. Toronto, working as a 'Hotel Teamster'.
He married a Mary Callaghan, born Hamilton, Scotland on ...? (date and place rather indecipherable) (witnesses. Thomas McDonald and Mary's sister 'Annie' (?) - Marriage Certificate (0.1219).
The writing on marriage certificate is shocking, very indistinct - marriage date could be 7th or 24th April (?) 1912 (?). Parents names are hard also - thought could be "John" Callaghan, mother Mary CAUL (?) or CANE (?). Despite extensive hunting in Scotland and Canada records, we cannot pin down the correct Mary Callaghan, and the dates: - of her birth, her parents, her emigration to Canada (or maybe via America) and the exact details of her marriage to William.
(Have found in Scot.P. a Michael Callaghan who married a Mary Kane/Keane in Hamilton, Lanark, Scotland, who had a Mary and Annie amongst their children?) but there the 'lead' ends.
Can anyone help with this quandary?
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In looking at the marriage registration, the name of Mary's parents look like Michael Callaghan and Mary Cane to me. The transcription at Ancestry gives the date as 7 Jan 1914 and I can see that is, at least, the date the license was taken out.
There is a Mary Callaghan on the 1911 Canada census in Toronto whose birth information is listed as July 1889 in Scotland. She is a lodger at Toronto General Hospital according to the census. It says she emigrated in 1910. Does that match up with the Mary who is the daughter of Michael and Mary?
Jacquie
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Thanks so much for quick reply, Jacquie.
Where on Ancestry did you find transcription? I have subscrip. to Ancestry.com but it doesn't cover Canada.
I have just relied on blowing up image of m.certificate, and a magnifying glass!! We did find Mary as lodger, and did wonder if this is correct one.
If these parents are correct (Michael Callaghan, Coal Miner, and Mary Kane(Keane married Nov.21, 1879) I have birth: of Mary Ann Callaghan July 23, 1888 at 17 Young St., Hamilton, County of Lanark, Scotland. There is also a sister Annie (who appears as witness on m.c.).
Any further info. of husband William Mc(Mac)Donald? We haven't been able to find anything further after his marriage to Mary, or whether he had any children, and their deaths.
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The Canadian section of Ancestry includes the Ontario marriages database. It has images of the actual registrations. The transcription for that marriage registartion actually had John for Mary's father but looking at it, to me, it looks more like Michael. The "l" is too faint to be seen but it certainly looks like there is an "ae" and the beginning of his name does NOT look like a "J" to me at all. I couldn't read the date that it said the marriage occurred but the license date was definitely 7 Jan 1914.
Ancestry.ca has Ontario birth, marriage and death databases but they only cover certain years because of privacy laws and the length of time it takes to transcribe records. Ontario births are protected from 1914 on currently but Ancestry's database only goes to 1909. Deaths after 1939 on are also currently protected but Ancestry's database only covers the years up to 1934 (plus overseas deaths - ie soldiers - from 1937 to 1947). Marriages are protected from 1928 on while Ancestry's database goes to 1926.
Jacquie
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Yes, I agree it looks like Michael. I thought the date half-way down the page looked vaguely like '1912', but the date at the bottom under signatures, is definitely 1914, albeit an altered one...and cousin Stephen is sure that 1914 is correct date. I will probably now have to rely on Stephen, who lives in Canada and therefore 'on the spot' to chase up the death certificate(s) and children, from his end , as far as he is able. Thanks again for your great help.
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I can see where it could be Michael as the Father's name.
The Mother's first name looks identical to the Bride's first name, Mary.
That would make my previous search wrong:
I had thought originally the Father's first name was John and found that name and a Sophia Canavan in a previous search with a Daughter Mary b.1889 in Greenock and a Sister Annie b.1895. The marriage certificate has Mary's place of birth with what looks like Hamilton, Scotland (SE of Glasgow) while Greenock is NW of Glasgow). Definitely not the same place!
The Mother's surname is a mystery. Definitely starts with a C (not a K) then maybe an a and then an n or u or ?. The last letter I'm not sure is an e. It looks too big to be an e. Ruth may have been on the right track with Caul. Is that a surname in Scotland?
I found that 1911 census sheet too. Excited until I scrolled over and found religion to be RC. I wonder if (to keep William's family happy) she said Prebyterian on the marriage cert? It's a little faded but looks similar to William's shortform "Presb".
July 1889 looks good, emig 1910 good, maid - could be. Interesting she puts her Nationality as Canadian. Maybe between emig in 1910 and the 1911 census she became a Canadian?
Notice on the 1910 passenger list, age 19, Domestic (maid), and part of the "Francis Party". I note on the 1911 census the whole page seems to be Maids and Nurses all living together. Could these all be the Francis Party?
Must put the 1910 passenger list next to the 1911 census sheet and compare.
Jacquie: Have you ever had occassion to go and look at an origianl document because the online one was so bad? If yes, were you able to make out any more detail on the original?
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I hope, if I can get to see the original marriage cert, that Mary's address on the third line in the centre portion of the documnet is clear. That may confirm if the 1911 census Mary is the right one. If she didn't move between 1911 and the 1914 marriage!
A lot of marr cert, they just put Toronto. I was glad to see William put his street address. I think Mary did too.
With that I may be able to track her in the Toronto Street Directories too.
Funny, on that third line there's one smudged word that looks suspiciously like he Mother's Maiden name, Caul. Just a coincidence I'm sure. Cretainly does look like Toronto at the end of the line.
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Have you looked at Scotland's People for a birth of Mary Callaghan in Hamilton? From 1875 to 1895 there seem to be only a few possibilities.
Debbie
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I cannot access Ancestry.ca but on Ancestry.com, looking for Mary Caul, secpmd emtry says: Ontario Canadian Marriages 1801-1930: Mary Callaghan/William McDonald; mother Mary CAUL; father John Callaghan.
Then 1900 United States Federal Census: it has Mary CANE (CAUL)/ John... can't access this either.
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As against that, found on 13 August, 1923, U.K. Passengers Incoming, to Glasgow, Scotland on T.S.S. 'Athenia', Steamship Line Anchor-Donaldson, 'whence arrived: Montreal" - Michael Callaghan, wife Mary, returning to Glasgow (gives their address). !!!! ???
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Hi Debbie,
Did search SP in 1889. That's where I found Mary b.1889 in Greenock (NW of Glasgow) to John Callaghan and Sophia Canavan.
Broadened it to 1885 to 1890 and came up with 21 possibilities. Only 1 in Hamilton (SE of Glasgow). Michael Callaghan and Mary Kane. Daughter Mary Ann. Hmmm. b.1888.
Now that I look at "Kane" here, if that didn't look so much like a capital
C(ane) on the 1914 marr cert, I'd almost say it could be Kane.
Hey, what if the information in the Bridegroom and Bride sections on the marr cert were being dictated to a city clerk or something? They could have heard Kane and written it in the more familiar form of Cane.
I don't think the writing in those 2 sections is either William or Mary as it doesn't seem to match their signatures.
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Have been in touch with the Archives of Ontario. What fun!
Can't look at the original marr cert right away. You have to check the microfilm first and if it is illegible, then you can ask to see the original.
But then I find out what they have here is the Register. This is apparently a book where much of the information on a marriage cert was recorded. Sounds like a 'make work' project to me! But I guess that's where I'll have to start.
Apparently the original marr cert is in the Office of the registrar General in Thunder Bay. Don't think I'm making a trip all the way up there. I guess it is possible to order a photocopy though.
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Thought I sent you this, Stephen?
S.P. Stat.Births 647/00.0692 Mary Ann Callaghan b. 23 July, 1888, at
17 Young Street, Hamilton, Lanark, parents Michael Callaghan, Coal Miner, and Mary Kane.
Found also Michael's wedding (24 yr. Coal miner) to Mary 'Keane' (18yrs) (title at top of S.P. record shown as MARY KANE) - (both signed with their X mark - obviously they couldn't read and write, so spelling of her surname might have been at Enunciator's discretion!) Date: 21 Nov., 1879 at Roman Catholic Chapel, after Banns according to the forms of the Roman Catholic Church, District of Hamilton, County of Lanark. Michael's usual address: South Street, Hamilton; Mary's: Grammar School Square, Hamilton.
(* insert from my previous post: " 1900 United States Federal Census: it has Mary CANE (CAUL)/ John... can't access this either." - If this is right one, her name seems to be interchangeable between Caul/ Cane. )
N.B.The name of Caul appears in brackets (about third line in main body of document with notation just above, which I can't read) on Mary Callaghan/William McDonald's m.cert. - now wonder if Mary's mother perhaps remarried to someone called CAUL.
Michael's parents: Archibald Kane (Hawker - General) and Mary Ann Higgerty. Witnesses: John Keane (his x mark), Fanny Callaghan (ditto), Jas. Danahen, signed.
In 1881 Census, Archibald Kane (31yrs) is living with his mother Isabella, (62 yrs.) and he also is a Coal Miner.
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The name with another name in brackets after means that it was originally transcribed one way but a correction was entered - Ancestry always keeps the original transcription and the correction in their database. I looked at the original 1900 US census image and it clearly says John and Mary Cane but they aren't your people. The census indicates that that Mary was born in Pennsylvania and her parents were born in Germany.
In looking at the marriage registration of William and Mary, I am very certain the name on the registration is Cane and that Caul was a mistranscription by the transcriber.
Jacquie
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Thanks Jacquie, that really clears that up nicely. Grateful for help.
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Hi Ruth,
Re: Thought I sent you this Stephen?"
You did.
1. The birth looks so good. Parents Michael and Mary seems to match first names on marr cert of Wm/Mary.
Still concerned about that Cane vs Kane on Wm/Mary's marr cert.
Also concerned the birth record says Mary Ann and marr cert only says Mary. Can't wait to see the Register and hopefully the original. That should confirm Mother's maiden name, Mary's age, where born and where living in Toronto in 1914. Can't wait!
2. Michael/Mary's marr cert looks good too. Interesting although her name is spelled Keane, her Parents are Kane. But the witness is Keane. Puzzling.
The handwriting looks the same throughout the cert so why the difference from one name to the next? No consistency!
3. The return trip to Glasgow by Michael/Mary in 1923 could be them. Visiting Daughter and Son in law William in Toronto?
When Mary (Ann) was born they were living on Young St in Hamilton. On the passenger manifest they show address as 80 Udson Rd, Hamilton. Both in Hamilton - that's a plus. I guess it would be hoping for too much that they didn't move between 1888 and 1923! Wonder if the addresses are close together?
Would have also been nice if they had to list when they arrived in Canada and where they stayed in Canada. Again, that would be too easy, right?
Interesting, in the "Country of last permanent Residence" column they put Canada. At first I thought they might have moved to Canada to be near Mary (Ann) (and maybe Annie), but they list a Hamilton address. (Their address in Hamilton or maybe who they're going to visit?)
I wonder if they came back to Canada shortly thereafter?