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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Flintshire => Wales => Flintshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: dannyvel on Sunday 14 March 10 08:16 GMT (UK)
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As i have written on other message boards and had zero response about this i am starting to wonder. Googling this pub just bring up a Miners Arms in Maeshafn which is too far away for it to be the same one? I live in Denbigh and have been to the library to see if they have anything there but nothing. I even done google street view in afonwen to check house names and still nothing so far.
Particularly interested in mid to late 1800's which was when it was run by Robert Parry.
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I've got the earliest (c1870) OS maps of Flintshire & Denbighshire on disc. Looked at Afonwen and can only see 2 public houses - Pwll Gwyn, which is still there, and The Sportsman, which isn't. I wonder if one of these was called The Miners Arms in earlier times.
There aren't any mines there either. They're higher up the hills towards Rhesycae and Halkyn. There is a Miner's Arms in Rhesycae.
Have you found Robert Parry in the censuses? If not, can you give more details, so that we can try to find him; dob, wife, children etc.
Tecwyn ???
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There is an entry in Pigots & Co Directory 1835 for Mold & Neighbourhood.
PARRY, Robert, Milford St. (Retailer of Beer)
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I have found him in 3 census's 1851-1871 and in all it states him as a Publican. Rah1980 found this otherwise i had no inkling of the name of the pub.
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sorry i can't seem to add the doc. Rah1980 sent me? ???
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I've now found him in the three censuses, and as you say they all give his occupation as "publican". However, none of them refer to The Miner's Arms. They simply say "Afonwen". I take it that you got the name from somewhere else.
By "walking" the 3 censuses, i.e. following the enumerator on the old map (1851 being the clearest), I'd guess that the pub was The Sportsman.
The Tithe maps at Hawarden might be worth a look at.
Tecwyn.
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Brilliant, that's excellent news. So was the sportsman on the main road? I did the google street map but obviously it doesn't go around some of those more narrow lanes. Was just looking for something like a house name like Miners Cottage etc just so i could narrow it down but nothing.
Thanks for all the info Tecwyn.
:D
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No, not on the main road. If you approach from Bodfari, pass the Pwll Gwyn on your left, you then reach a cross roads. Turn left, but not up the hill to Caerwys. The other left hand one is probably signposted Babell or Rhesycae. The pub was a bit further on, on the left hand side. I think it's a private house now.
If you go to Google Maps and enter Afonwen enlarge it until you see the B5122 which goes to Caerwys. You'll see a little triangle with Bryn Seion Liveries in the middle of it. Now switch to satellite view. The pub was one of the three buildings above the triangle unless it was demolished and these are new.
I think you should still try to check other sources to confirm that this is the one.
Tecwyn.
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Try this link.
http://www.globrix.com/property-details/16364237-sportsman_terrace-afonwen-ch7-2_bed-terraced_house
Want to buy it ??
;D
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Well the doc i was sent by Rah1980 is North Wales pigot & co. I am not familiar with newspapers and things. It mentions Caerwys and surrounding area and mentions Pwll Gwyn but no mention of The Sportsman. I don't know the date but it obviously had to be mid 1800's.
I've been reading a bit about the Sportsman and it was built in 1700's but there is no mention it ever changed its name.
Baffled :-\
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It could be that the old OS map simply doesn't show all the pubs. I've found that to be the case in towns. For instance, I was looking at Bagillt the other day. The area map showed about 4 pubs by name, but when I looked at the street plan (still c1870) I found 4 more marked as PH with no name. Unfortuately there isn't a street plan map for Afonwen.
:-[
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The document I sent was from a Piggotts directory of North Wales and what seemed like half of England when I had to go through it page by page ::) It was dated 1830/s I wanted to see if I could find ant info about my relatives pre the start of the censuses.
The place on the signpost on the mold-denbigh road says Ysceifiog.
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Thanks Sarah, Just noticed you're researching Ellis aswell. Any around Bagillt and Holywell area?
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I have a great great great grandma who was born in Ysceifiog in 1820's but then moved with parents (?) and siblings (?) to Bagillt, I have no idea why and can't find her on the census until she is married, I know she was born ysc because of baptism and census and I know she lived Bagillt because of marriage cert, but I havent been able to find any of her family on the census.
Sarah ;D
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I have a lot of Ellis family in Bagillt early 1900's and Holywell going back to mid 1800's. Maybe we cross paths somewhere along the line eh?
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Lol it is possible, I cross my own line (great grandparents were second cousins, I am my own 5th cousin ::))
If you look in the flintshire look up offers all the parish registers I have are listed. I have a few Holywell ones.
Sarah
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I am stuck on William Ellis at the moment aswell. He was born about 1845 in Holywell. I have two marriage certs which state his father as William Ellis, shoemaker. On both his father is deceased.
On 1861 census i found one of the same age which says he is the son of a Sarah Davies aged 75 so thats completely untrue. He isn't the problem it's his parents lol.
I don't suppose you have the parish rec. for the same time do you?
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My baptisms stop at 1840, does he have any older siblings that you know of?
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It doesn't look as if he had any to be honest. I suspect he was illegitimate as i have him aged 5 living with another mother in 1851, Mary Williams aged 70. Maybe putting his father down on Marriage Cert. was a bit of a cover up but nothing explains where the Ellis comes from other than that.
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Sounds like a record office job, denbighshire records office hold copies of all flintshire records
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Hi Guys just to let you all know that i have now found out that The Miners Arms was in fact The Sportsmans in Afonwen and the answer was staring me right in my face on the 1881 census.
Robert Parry's wife Anne Parry (Hughes) was living as a publican at the Sportsmans and it seems her Son-in-law took over as head.
Thanks for all your responses and i have now kicked myself and drew a huge sigh of relief
;D ;D ;D
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hi there,just to let you know ,the link added earlier for "sportsmans terrace",are cottages that lie at the back of what was the sportmans pub.
the sportmans pub,is now 3 houses,and has been added to here and there,but is basically the same as it would have been.
it closed in the 1980's,and had a hell of a good reputation locally,it was once on the post/stage route,, it lies just off th mold/denbigh road.
julie
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hi there was a pub in rhes-y-cae called the miners arms dont know if its the one you want
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This thread has been super helpful. I had relatives in the Sportsman Terrace.
Did we decide the terrace buildings had gone as well as the pub?
I might take a drive around, just to see the area anyway.
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Hey all
I'm really interested in finding out more about the miners arms / sportsmans inn. This thread has been really useful so far. Does anyone have any additional information or photographs?
Thanks