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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: tomatillo on Thursday 11 March 10 21:14 GMT (UK)
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I'd be really grateful if anyone would be able to help me to decipher a name on the 1851 Census or help me to find any other trace of the people.
I'm not sure that I'd be allowed to post the image of the page as it's from ancestry. The reference is HO107/1509/250 p42 and ancestry has the family name transcribed as Hostwill so the details are:
33 Crown Street, St Giles in the Field, Finsbury:
James Hostwill, 60, Head, Tailor, Wales Herefordshire (?)
Sarah Hostwill, 59, wife, Tailor, Wales Herefordshire
Charles Hostwill, 22, son, Tailor, Middlesex st Ann
Maria Taylor, 20, niece, Waistcoat maker, Middlesex, st Pancras
The name does look like Hostwill but I can't find any other trace of that name anywhere. The niece, Maria, is one of 'mine' and I am hoping that the aunt and uncle will help me through the brick wall of trying to sort her parents out. Her mother's maiden name was Protherough/Prothero and I'm wondering whether Sarah 'Hostwill' was originally Sarah Protherough/Prothero.
If anyone would be able to work out who they are or find them elsewhere I'd be really grateful,
Many thanks
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FindMyPast has James as:
HOSTWILL, James Head Married M 60 1791 Tailor Herefordshire Wales
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Free BMD has
Deaths Jun 1856
Hastwell James St. Giles 1b 219
Deaths Mar 1856
HASTEWELL Sarah St Giles 1b 246
This Covers St. Giles in the Fields which is the parish you have in 1851
Could this be the same couple. ???
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brilliant, thankyou. I've found them as James Hastwell and Sarah Western marrying in 1841 in St George's Bloomsbury wtih abode given as 33 Crown Street. Given they were supposedly a bachelor and a spinster I'm not sure how they managed to have a son in 1829... I think further digging is required...
Unfortunately it doesn't give me an easy connection back to Maria's parents yet but working on it!
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Possibility for Maria's parents
St George Bloomsbury
1823 Nov 16
John TAYLOR, otp,
Mary PROTHEROUGH, otp,
Married after Banns
Witnesses James TAYLOR, John HARRISON
Is this Maria
St Pancras Old Church
1832 Nov 14, Mary Maria, d/o John & Mary TAYLOR, Kenton St, Fruiterer, born Oct 28
The same John and Mary as they had a daughter Harriet Protherough TAYLOR in 1829
Ian C
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James Hastwell and Sarah Western marrying in 1841 in St George's Bloomsbury wtih abode given as 33 Crown Street. Given they were supposedly a bachelor and a spinster I'm not sure how they managed to have a son in 1829
They could have been married before, 50 and 49 seems to quite a late age to marry.
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Hi
The relationship on censuses is to the head of the household - niece/niece by marriage
24th March 1829 St Anne, Soho born 26th May 1828
Charles James Hastwell parents James and Charlotte, G/ flow Street, father's occupation tailor
26th April 1835 St Anne, Soho
John Hastwell and Clara Baker, bachelor and spinster of the parish
Married by banns
Witnesses William Payne and Mary Hastwell
Clara may have remarried in 1845
1861 census RG9 591 folio 26
175 Edward Street Brighton Sussex
William Payne 48 Head Married Boot and shoremaker Merton? Surrey
Ruth Payne 45 Wife Married Whitehaven Cumberland
Charles Hastwell 32 Brother-in-law unmarried Foreman London Middlesex
plus apprentice and workman
RUTH HASTWELL
Christening: 22 MAY 1816 Saint James, Whitehaven, Cumberland
Father: JAMES HASTWELL
Mother: MARY
and siblings all baptised Whitehaven
JOHN HASTWELL Christneing: 12 SEP 1814
ELIZABETH HASTWELL Christening: 18 APR 1819
REBECCA HASTWELL Christening: 03 AUG 1821
Marriages Sep 1864 Hastwell Charles Brighton 2b 279
Deaths Mar 1875 Hastwell Charles 46 Brighton 2b 151
24 Jul 1864 St Nicholas Brighton, Sussex
HASTWELL, Charles Age:36 father James Hastwell
Esther HENLEY Age:24 father John Henley
1871 census RG10 1076 folio 41
64 William Street Brighton
Charles Hastwell 42 Lodger Married Clicker Soho Middlesex
Esther Hastwell 32 Wife Married Brighton Sussex
Anna Hastwell 5 Daughter Brighton Sussex
Charlot Clara Hastwell 1 Daughter Brighton Sussex
Regards
Valda
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Many thanks to you all for all of that. That is fantastic and has got me so much further than I'd hoped. Many thanks for those records Eyesee I'm almost certain that that is exactly the right family.
Unfortunately I still can't work out where the family connection between the Hastewells and Maria comes in and I'm wondering whether I've made a mistake and this is a different Maria.
To make the uncle/aunt connection I'm looking for a Protherough or a Taylor at some point, presumably either as James' earlier wife or Sarah's maiden name (assuming she had actually been married before). Looking at that huge amount of information that Valda has found (many thanks) it looks as if James was previously married to a Charlotte and prior to that a Mary (in Cumberland). I can find a good match for Charlotte but not for Mary or for any earlier marriage for Sarah Western/Hastewell. The marriage to Charlotte is I think:
1 Feb 1827, christ Church Newgate, James HASTWELL and Charlotte HELEM. So no obvious link yet.
Many thanks for the help that you've all given it's very much appreciated.
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Hi
So it is this family you are interested in?
1841 census HO107 672/10 folio 10
Kenton Street St George Bloomsbury
John Taylor 35 Fruiterer
Mary Taylor 35
Harriett Taylor 10
Sarah Taylor 10
Mary Taylor 5
all born Middlesex
Sarah Watson Taylor baptised Pancras 1830 married in 1849 giving St George Bloomsbury as her address. Her sister Harriet Protherough Taylor married in the same year as Henriette Protherough Taylor and gave Kenton Street as her address.
Regards
Valda
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Many thanks for your help Valda, yes (I think) that's exactly right, many thanks.
In 1851 (the same year as Maria is with the Hostwells above) the family are still at the same address (Kenton Street) HO107 1507/41 page 10:
Mary Taylor (widow) 49, greengrocer, born in 'leaminster'
Sarah Roe (?) 20
Benjamin Taylor 16
Amelia Taylor 14
Temperance Taylor 9
Rosa Taylor 6
John Roe (?) 3m
All apart from Mary and the baby born in St George's Bloomsbury. I'm guessing that Mary means Leominster Hereforedshire but am not entirely sure.
Then in 1861 I've found this record for Crown St (the address that Maria was at with the Hostwells in 1851 in my op) RG9 172/126 page 39:
Maria Watson, Widow, 28 tailoress, London
Alfred Watson, son, 7, London
Mary Taylor, mother, widow, 61, Leominster Herefordshire.
So it looks like a really good match for 'my' Mary Taylor (nee Protherough). If it is then it seems as if Maria stayed in the house after the death of the Hostwells and her own husband and that her mother joined her. Taylor is such a common surname that I want to be very careful with it and the thing that doesn't fit is that I can't find any kind of link between the Hostwells and 'my' Maria Taylor. It's very frustrating as everything else seems to point to it being the right connection. Also, if the Hostwells are connected it should provide me with a good clue to taking the family back another generation.
Many thanks again for your interest and help, you've all already helped me to sort this out far more than I'd managed to do myself.
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Hi
Though the 1861 census clearly states Watson I think Maria's married surname was Weston.
1871 census RG10 351 folio 43
43 Dudley Street St Giles in the Fields
Maria Weston 40 Head Widow Tailoress Marylebone Middlesex
Mary Taylor 71 Mother Widow Dilwinn (Dilwyn) Herefordshire
Alfred Weston 17 Son Pianoforte St James Middlesex
8th August 1852 St George, Bloomsbury
Frederick John Weston Full Age Bachelor Jeweller 156 High Holborn Richard Weston Jeweller
Maria Taylor Full Age Spinster Tailoress 156 High Holborn John Taylor Butler
Marriage by banns. Both Signed
Witnesses Frederick Henry Lees and Ann Maria Weston her mark
Deaths Mar 1854
Weston Frederick John St James 1a 252
Deaths Sep 1874
TAYLOR Mary 74 St. Giles 1b 337
1881 census RG11 327 folio 51
43 Dudley Street St Giles in the Fields
Maria Weston 49 Head Widow Tailoress (uncompl) Marylebone Middlesex
Alfred Weston 28 Son Unmarried Pianoforte maker St James Middlesex
1891 census RG12 210 folio 82
66 Neale St Giles in the Fields
Alfred Weston 37 Head Single Pianofortemaker St James Middlesex
Deaths Sep 1889
Weston Maria 56 St. Giles 1b 348
Deaths Jun 1899
Weston Alfred 46 St. Giles 1b 365
You can access the Dilwyn parish registers indexed on the IGI through Hugh Wallis' website
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyHereford.htm#D
There doesn't appear to be a Mary Protherough/Prothero) baptism
Is it Alfred and Maria Weston you were searching for or an Alfred Watson?
Regards
Valda
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Many thanks again Valda (have been away for a couple of days so only just seen your reply).
Yes I think you are probably right the Weston surname does fit with the other details for Maria, the 1861 is probably an error. All of those details look exactly right - many thanks for taking time to look at this.
My direct line is not to Maria herself but to Benjamin George Taylor, one of her younger siblings. Unfortunately Taylor is such a common surname that I've been having great difficulty getting beyond his parents and so Maria's apparent residence with an uncle/aunt looked like a good clue to going back further so I'm trying to find out more about her and to follow that up. It's just so frustrating that everything looks as if it fits but I can't find any conclusive connection between 'my' Taylors and the Hastwells.
Many thanks for all of your fantastic help with this.
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St Pancras
1835 Jan 12, Benjamin George, s/o John & Mary TAYLOR, Kenton St, Fruiterer, born 1834 Dec 29
With the age of Maria in 1851, is it possible she was a great-niece of the HASTWELLs
Ian C
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Hi tomatillo,
This is an old post, hopefully you will see it.
I think my Mary Maria and your Benjamin George were brother and sister. Have you found any more information out about this family? And the Protheroe connection?
I found the post as I'm researching the same Taylor family from Kenton Street. John Taylor the father was a fruitier.
In 1841 England & Wales Census
John Taylor
Gender: Male
Birth: Between 1802 and 1806
Middlesex, England
Residence: 1841
Kenton Street, Finsbury, Middlesex, England
Age: 35 - 39
Census
Parish: St George Bloomsbury Series: HO107 Page: 10\9
City: Finsbury Piece: 0672 Family: 1973
County: Middlesex Registrar's district: St George Bloomsbury Line: 6
Country: England Superintendent registrar's district: St Giles in The Fields & St George Bloomsbury Image: 11
Date: 1841 Enum. District: 13
See household members
Household
Relation to head of household was not recorded in this census. However, MyHeritage has developed technology to
imply the relations based on surname, gender, age and position in the household. Though not perfect, the implied
relations are often correct.
Name Age
John Taylor 35 - 39
Mary Taylor 35 - 39
Harriett Taylor 10
Sarah Taylor 10
Mary Taylor 5
Ann Rooke 60 - 64
Eliza Rooke 20 - 24
Thomas Jones 20 - 24
William Prothero 45 - 49
William Morgan 20 - 24
William Hicks 20 - 24
Mary Stanners 20 - 24
John Stanners 50 - 54
Mary Stanners 50 - 54
Jessy Johnson 35 - 39
Dorah Connor 22
Eliza Bryan 23
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Hi Tomatillo - sorry, didn't see this sooner. A link with my own tree. Charles Hastwell married my g-grandfather's eldest sister Esther Henley. They had two children Annie Ruth and Charlotte Clara as listed in the 1871 census entry.
Annie Ruth (1865-1927) married William John Gibbs (1867-1942), tailor, in Steyning, Sussex 1894.
They had six children between 1895 and 1909 all born in Brighton or Steyning, but I haven't so far traced any of them further with any confidence. Work in progress!
William Charles 1895 - tailor in 1911 census
Albert George 1897 - gardener's boy in 1911 census
Frederick J-- 1900
Robert 1902 died in 1904
Edward James 1905
Annie E 1909
Charlotte Clara (1869-1933) married Albert James Balchin (1870-1936) in Brighton, 1890.
They had two children
Ellen Clara (1892-1906) and
Herbert James (1895-1915) who was killed in WW1: 9/3/1915, buried at Bois Guillaume Communal Cemetery.
CWGC - Private, Army Service Corps, Mechanical Transport, service no.M2/049278
address 36, Livingstone Road, Hove
If you are a GenesReunited member, send me a private message and I can give you a link to access my tree. I have copies of the 1911 census entries for Annie and Charlotte, but none of the marriage or birth certificates.
By the way- my profile picture is a portrait of William Vine, Esther Henley's grandfather