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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: searcher58 on Wednesday 10 March 10 23:39 GMT (UK)

Title: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: searcher58 on Wednesday 10 March 10 23:39 GMT (UK)
I'm just starting getting serious about tracing my roots.  I'm asking around family members for names and places but as I'm in Oz and they're in Lancashire and memories are somewhat dimmed its hard.
I have been told that there is an Annette Skeet (though not sure on the christian name, who might have been an opera singer who was a great aunt.  I am also searching for anything on Joseph Neal(e) in the same area who died aged 23 (?) around 1935/6 who is my grandfather. I have no information on him other than that he was a coal miner and married Sarah(Sally) Prescott.
I can't really go back any further until I find info on the Neal side.  I don't think there is any deep dark secrets, just people growing apart and losing conntact over the years.
Many thanks in anticipation of someone somewhere knowing something.
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 10 March 10 23:43 GMT (UK)
Hi and welcome to Rootschat

A good starting point for your research would be a copy of this marriage cert as it will give the name and occupation of their respective fathers

Sarah Prescott to Joseph C Neal September qtr 1931  Leigh Vol  8c Page 691
 
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 10 March 10 23:45 GMT (UK)
This is his death reg

Joseph C Neal aged 24 September qtr 1935  Manchester South Vol 8d Page 214

And his birth

Births March qtr 1911   
 
Joseph C Neal    Leigh  8c 306
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 10 March 10 23:56 GMT (UK)
The free 1911 index shows him just as Joseph aged 3mths living in Leigh

There are a couple of possible matches for his parents or mother on the 1911 index so you would have to buy credits to view the full entry
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: searcher58 on Thursday 11 March 10 00:23 GMT (UK)
Many thanks.  I have had info from a reli that his parents were Albert and Ellen (this is where Nelly comes in, at last I can add her to the tree) I think she was also down as Helena.  My uncle doesn't seem to recall any Skeets so perhaps they are on Josephs side of the family.  Sarah remarried after he died and had three more children.

Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 00:28 GMT (UK)
This appears to be their marriage

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1907
 
Albert Neal to Ellen Pendlebury at Leigh Register Office or Registrar Attended registers at Wigan & Leigh Ref ROL/66/27

 
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 00:34 GMT (UK)
I have just received your email with the 1911 details for Albert & Ellen so here is Albert in 1901

44 Blenheim St Tyldesley With Shakerley

Mary Neal 40 widow b Wakefield
Allan   20 b Stanley Yorks
Albert 16 ditto
Bertha  14 ditto
Ethel  13 ditto
Kezia   8 b Atherton
Michael Thompson 44 boarder b London
RG13 Piece 3596 Folio 146 Page 5 

I'll check the 1891
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 00:44 GMT (UK)
Interesting!!

1891 for Normanton Yorks

The Neal children are incorrectly indexed as Freeman although the image shows Neal

James Freeman 42 b Hertford
Mary 42 b Tipton Staffs
Eliza 14 b Normanton
Thomas   17 b Methley Yorks
Joseph 15 b Derbyshire Grassmore
Richard   11 b Stanley and all following Neal children b Stanley
Allen Neal 8
Albert   7
Bertha 5
Mary Ethel  3

RG12 Piece 3745 Folio 88 Page 27

Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 00:51 GMT (UK)
Births
Keziah Neil June qtr 1892 Leigh  8c 352
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 00:56 GMT (UK)
I can't fathom the 2 Mary's

1891 aged 42 b Tipton Staffs

1901 40 b Wakefield Yorks
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 01:15 GMT (UK)
In 1881 - James Freeman is married to Lucy aged 40 b Herts.  Their youngest child was Eliza aged 4 and she is also shown on the 1891 census

So the children on the 1891 - Thomas, Joseph & Richard are possibly not Freeman

1881 census for Normanton

James Freeman 33 b Thorfield Herts
Lucy 40 b Thorfield
Emily 16  ditto
Fanny  5 b Normanton
Eliza 4  ditto

RG11 Piece 4573 folio 58 page 34

Deaths March qtr 1890   
Lucy Freeman  aged 50  Wakefield  9c 10
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: searcher58 on Thursday 11 March 10 01:18 GMT (UK)
I shall be phoning up my mum later and try to find out if she knows anything about the freemans.  I think she did once give me bertha's name but all the other names I haven't a clue.
This is wonderful, thank you so much.
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 01:20 GMT (UK)
It's 1.30am here so I'm off to bed now

Will try and do some more delving tomorrow night
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 16:18 GMT (UK)
Marriages March qtr 1891   
 
James Freeman   Wakefield  9c 35   
Mary Neal 

But no death for James Freeman between 1891-1901 in either Wakefield or Leigh and no further marriage to another Mary between 1891-1901
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 16:32 GMT (UK)
This 1881 entry for Stanley Cum Wrenthorpe Yorks makes things clearer

Richard Neal 42 b Leicestershire - somewhere like Ashlyde ?? - coal miner
Mary   26 b TIPTON STAFFS
John 10 b Newhall Derbyshire
Thomas  7 b Methley Yorks
Joseph Henry  5 b Grasssmore Derbyshire
Richard E 1 b Stanley Yorks
RG11 Piece 4574 Folio 89 Page 2

A possible marriage

Marriages June qtr 1876

Richard Neal   Leicester  7a 323
Mary Ann Mann

Deaths June qtr 1890   
Richard Neal aged  50  Wakefield  9c 17

Richard was probably married previously and the 2 older children born to the first marriage

Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 16:53 GMT (UK)
So to sum up all this info

Mary (possibly Mann) b 1855 Tipton Staffs  married Richard Neal b 1839 Leics in 1876 and they had the following  children between 1876 - 1890 :

Thomas
Joseph Henry
Richard
Allen
Albert
Bertha
Mary Ethel

Richard died in 1890 and Mary re-married to James Freeman in 1891. James Freeman was previously married to Lucy who also died in 1890.

There is a daughter Keziah who was only born in 1892 but was registered as Neil - not Freeman - which is strange as she was presumably James Freeman's child

1901 shows a possibly different Mary as a widow b Wakefield 1861 with the Neal children

There is no James Freeman death between 1891-1901 in Wakefield or Leigh that fits his birthyear
 
I would recommend you invest in a copy of Albert's birth cert if only to confirm his parentage and particularly his mother's maiden name

Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: searcher58 on Thursday 11 March 10 21:54 GMT (UK)
Just spoken to mum who is delighted to know about her dad, she had no idea when he died or when he was born.  She says he had a younger sister Annie.  After he died and my nan remarried she was ostrasised from that side of the family so little is known. She does remember a derbyshire family connection but is not sure whether it was her mother or fathers side. 
She seems to remember on the Neal side someone emigrating to australia and there was twin boys, one who was killed in WW2.  Mum spent practically the whole WW2 in hospital with TB (she was the guinea pig for hip replacements) and didn't see any of her family for years.  How awful for a child to go through that. 
She's going to talk to her sister and see if she remembers anything about the prescott side.

This is getting so exciting.

Thank you again.


Jan
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 23:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Jan

I meant to add that if you are going to buy a copy of Albert's birth cert - do it before 6th April as the cost is increasing from £7 to £9.25
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 11 March 10 23:27 GMT (UK)
This gets weirder!!  - scrap that 1876 marriage until the birth cert for Albert arrives

1871 census for Derbyshire - indexed as Neall

Richard Neall 31 b Ashby de la Zouche Leicester - coal miner
Mary 22 b Tipton Staffs
Elizabeth  6 b Derbyshire
John  5 months b NEWHALL Derbyshire
RG10 Piece 3467 Folio 113 Page 34

Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: searcher58 on Friday 12 March 10 00:54 GMT (UK)
I'll have to get in touch with my bro in the UK and see if he can get the birth cert as I am in Australia.


Thanks

Jan
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 12 March 10 13:57 GMT (UK)
You can order online and it doesn't cost any more than in the UK

www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: tedscout on Thursday 05 September 13 05:26 BST (UK)
This gets weirder!!  - scrap that 1876 marriage until the birth cert for Albert arrives

1871 census for Derbyshire - indexed as Neall

Richard Neall 31 b Ashby de la Zouche Leicester - coal miner
Mary 22 b Tipton Staffs
Elizabeth  6 b Derbyshire
John  5 months b NEWHALL Derbyshire
RG10 Piece 3467 Folio 113 Page 34

Mrs Mik, Jan.

This may be our link. I have a Richard NEAL born 1823 in Newhall, Derbyshire. He is my 3rd great grandfather. I have not traced any further back than him. Ashby De la Zouch is the registration district for all my family.  ;D I have not traced all his children. Could his eldest be your Richard born 1840?
Title: Re: Skeet - Atherton/Tyldesley area ? Joseph Neal(e) - same area
Post by: searcher58 on Monday 14 October 13 22:07 BST (UK)
Ted, could very well be.  I know there is a link to Newall, they were coal miners - might they have been working their way round all the pits, as one closed they moved to another. Mums dad Joseph Neal died when he was 25 ish and she really doesn't remember any of her relatives from that side of the family.  We'll keep digging, we might still be cousins LOL.  Strange co-incidence that they were down as Freemans in one of the census.