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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Luckyme on Wednesday 10 March 10 22:30 GMT (UK)
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Hi. I'm new to this so I hope I'm posting in the correct area...
I'm trying to trace my father's side of the family (Turnbulls and Kellys). My Grandmother was Annie Eileen (Nancy) Turnbull, nee Kelly. She died in 2007. Her mother and father were Margaret Mcdonald and Patrick Kelly who I believe came from County Derry. Before my Grandmother died, I told her that I wanted to trace my family tree and she went beserk! She was shouting down the phone that she wanted nothing to do with it and that I was stupid for contemplating doing it... she made it quite clear that she wasn't happy and wouldn't give me any help or information.
It's made me all the more curious! I have a feeling that it's something to do with an adopted child or maybe, a divorce or something. I know it doesn't sound that exciting today, but my Grandmother was born in 1913 and was a Roman Catholic, so it would've been quite a scandal if I'm right.
There's certainly something that she wanted kept secret. I would appreciate any ideas about what it may have been and if anyone has any suggestions about what to do next.
Thanks.
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hi,,i guess you could just try and find everything you can,and see what clues you may get.....do you have any facts/documents? do you know years of birth for patrick and margaret. do you have any birth/marriage certificates.....were patrick and margaretmarried in england. you need a starting point to enable you to get back to the census records....or you need birth/marriage certs
could this be patricks marriage reference?
Marriages Mar 1909
KELLY Patrick Gateshead 10a 1220
MCDONALD Margaret Gateshead 10a 1220
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Hi, Yeah, that's their marriage. I have a copy of their marriage certificate and my grandmother's birth certificate, but I'm sort of stuck after that. I've tried looking online for their parents' (Thomas Mcdonald and Michael Kelly) details and I haven't had any joy. I also don't know how to go about looking for an adopted child - that's if I'm not barking up the wrong tree. Any ideas on what to do next?
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Sorry if I sound a bit thick - I just really don't know what to do when you get stuck!
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can you post the details of the certificates,,,,names..ages.. occupations..witnesses etc every bit of detail helps us to help you ;)
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so this annies birth ref
Births Jun 1913
Kelly Annie E Gateshead 10a 2120
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Sorry if I sound a bit thick - I just really don't know what to do when you get stuck!
;D we all had to start somewhere ;)
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From the free 1911 index it looks like Patrick was born 1879 and Margaret 1878
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Do you know your grandmothers siblings as there are six Kelly/McDonald births in Gateshead between 1913 and 1929. It's possible that one is still alive and may be able to help?
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Yeah, that's my Grandma. On the 1909 marriage certificate for Margaret Mcdonald and Patrick Kelly, it states that Thomas Mcdonald was Margaret's father and that he was a quarryman, and that Michael Kelly was Patrick's father and he was a farmer. I don't know if they (Michael and Thomas) came to England. I've seen a 1911 census entry and Margaret and Patrick are listed as living in Gateshead but being from County Derry, Ireland.
On my Grandma's birth certificate, it says she was born in Abbey Street, Gateshead and that her father, Patrick, was an Innkeeper's barman.
I know Grandma had two brothers, Jack, or maybe John (1912) , Frank, and a sister, Hilda. They're all dead.
That's why I want to find out about my family. They all died before I was born or when I was young.
And that's all I know, other than my dad, Dennis who was born in 1940. We don't speak so I can't ask him! I don't know what my Grandad was called but I have Edward or Daniel in my head, but then again, I could be mistaken.
Any help in pointing me in the right direction is greatly appreciated.
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In 1911
just Patrick and Margaret
Patrick 32 born co Derry
Margaret 33 born Gateshead
interestingly, they say they have a child and its still living but not with them
perhaps thats the secret...
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Ann E Kelly married Frederick T Turnbull June Q 1940 Gateshead.
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Thanks you two! jc26red, where did you get this info from and how can I look into it further?
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In 1911
just Patrick and Margaret
Patrick 32 born co Derry
Margaret 33 born Gateshead
interestingly, they say they have a child and its still living but not with them
perhaps thats the secret...
yes...i had already seen that,,,,according to free bmd,the first child is annie,,but she wasnt born till 1913,,,so who is the child born to patrick and margaret who is not on the 1911 census ?
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This is so exciting. I should really go to bed but I'll be up all night trying to look into this now!
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this is only a possibility?????????
1881 ------ 97, Maxwell St, Westoe
RG11 Piece: 5014 Folio: 26 Page: 45
MC DONALD, Thomas Head Married M 24 1857 Coal Miner
So Shields
Durham
MC DONALD, Marion Wife Married F 22 1859
Newcastle on Tyne
Northumberland
MC DONALD, Margaret Daughter Single F 1 1880
So Shields
Durham
MC DONALD, Bridget Mother Widow F 60 1821
Ireland
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Hmmm there is a tree on An**try - this might be what she didn't want you to know.......... :-\
Shows Annie Eileen Kelly married to someone ROBSON c1930
2 children
Then 1934 marrying Edward TURNBULL
I can't find a Robson marriage as yet.
Annie
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possible birth refs
Births Sep 1879
McDonald Margaret S. Shields 10a 733
McDonald Margaret Durham 10a 383
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Annie E ROBSON married Edward TURNBULL 1934 Gateshead
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That Robson/Turnbull marriage is 1934 march Q Gateshead, the cert would help clear up whether it's her :) However there was an Annie E Robson born 1914 Gateshead.
There is not a sniff of an Ann/ie Kelly marrying a Robson on Ance**ry, maybe it's worth contacting the tree owner to see where their info came from.
Wow I've looked at the tree and she seems pretty sure she has the right Annie Eileen kelly, parents and everything, Luckyme you need to make contact with this person
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No I can't find a possible marriage either, maybe they didn'y actually marry :-\
I have sent a message to the tree owner but it is over 6 mths since they logged on ::)
Annie
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Thanks gortonboy, gonna look into that one,
Also, the Annie Kelly on Ancestry is part of my tree that I've put on there myself. Should have said that. Apologies for my stupidity. I haven't been on there for some time and had forgotten about it :-[
Due to the help I've had from you people, I've found out that great-grandma wasn't from Ireland but was born here (I think she's still of Irish descent though), so many, many thanks. I truly appreciate it! :)
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So, on the highly unlikely chance that you remember my post from THIRTEEN YEARS AGO...... I finally found out what the secret was and why Nana refused point blank to help with my family tree.....
To cut a long story short, my sister past away in September, aged 43.
My dad was adamant that I'm banned from going (I haven't spoken to HIM in nearly 30 years, but I *did* speak to my sister)
Anyway, he turns up with HIS SON.... WHO NOBODY KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT. A son from his 2nd wife, but he was conceived and born when my dad was still with wife number 1.
He's onto his FOURTH wife now 🙄