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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Flintshire => Topic started by: phil100652 on Wednesday 10 March 10 20:11 GMT (UK)
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Hi. My great grandparents were licensees of the Wellington Inn in Bagillt at the time of my great grandfather's death in February 1900 and my great grandmother was still there on the 1901 census.
However I've tried various searches in Google and can't find any reference to it at all.
Does anyone have any idea where it was? Did it get demolished or does it still exist under another name? Thanks in anticipation.
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It is still there in 1911 but where there is I don't know, if nobody gets back to you tonight I will ask my grandmother tomorrow who grew up in Greenfield area in 1920's although her memory isn't what it used to be!
Sarah
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One thing you might try is "walking" the census route for recognizable addreses before and after.
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Have you seen this website, you should be able to contact them http://www.bagillt-history.org.uk/index.html
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I know you may have seen this, but....Might it have been a shortening of the name?
http://tinyurl.com/yfeh7qj Lists deed /lease holders 1835-1893
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Thanks all for your replies so far - amazingly speedy and helpful. You've given me some good pointers - Duke of Wellington looks a possibility and I've got another society to email. It would be great to know exactly where in Bagillt it was/is. Thanks again.
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Just put Bagillt into Google maps....
http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hl=en&tab=il
I was using this earlier to see if any recent "(Duke of )Wellington Inn" Clwyd listings were anywhere near but they aren't...
If you aren't familiar with the use of this useful extra you also can hit "get directions', fill in the blank/s and it will tell you how far away other locations are on the map from that town, etc....
Oh, Lordy, I can't read...you wanted to know where in the town...hee hee :P spid-ridder
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Hi Rah (and others). Thanks for post (on Lletty item). Just to be clear, I've actually visited Bagillt to look for the Wellington Inn / Hotel but it no longer exists. I was wondering if anyone knew the location where it used to be or if it's still there but under a different name. It's probably a question only someone from Bagillt with a long memory would be able to answer so it was always a long shot.
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I spoke to my Nain today and she says it was in the middle of Bagillt on the main rd/high street and I said 'are you sure?' and she said 'yes i think so, but i didn't go to Bagillt often only to the picture house' as i prevously posted she is 90 and her memory is going a little but it is a start, and she was certain it was called the duke of wellington. I've searched for pictures of Bagillt on the net but to no avail, but if i do come accross anymore info i will let you know.
Sarah ;D
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she was certain it was called the duke of wellington. Sarah ;D
:D good at least I don't look like a complete idiot... ::) I hope that it is still there, but renamed...so that you can actually see it. Heritage buildings are kept up for a long time in U.K. Here in Canada they either were not built to last, or were considered replaceable compared to the property value....we now have some heritage laws, but too late for some of them.
Here's some timeline trivia from 1830 which would have prompted the naming of many pubs....
The (Duke of Wellington's) Beer Act encourages the opening of Beer Houses
(in an attempt to reduce consumption of gin ;D )
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Sarah & J.J. Thanks for your help again. Sarah please thank your Nain too. With her info and the suggestion hiraeth made to walk the census in the order of addresses listed, I might be able to at least locate where it was. If you are happy to do so, ask her if she remembers the Old Tavern (Hen Dafarn) in Llanerchymor. My Dad was born there.
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I've looked carefully at my original (1870s) OS map and found 4 public houses and 2 breweries in and around Bagillt, but not the Wellington. I'd guess that for an industrial town there would have been many more than that.
Can you give details of your Grandparents so that I can find them in the census. I'll then try to locate some of the adjacent properties. I've had some success in the past with rural properties but haven't tried it in an urban area, but it's worth a try.
Tecwyn :)
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She will remember the place in Llanerchymor as that is where she was born! Her grandparents lived next to (or next but one) to the chapel, is that the pub opposite the ship market and Abercan (prob spelt that wrong)
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Yes, you did spell it incorrectly, but being Welsh, I prefer your version to the correct one - Abakan
:P :P
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Sarah. Your Nain must have known my Dad then - William Davies born 1914. His sister Edie took the pub over after their Mum died.
Taidgazacaz. My great-grandfather William Barnett died in 1900 and my Nain remarried so in the 1901 census she was married to Isaac Hughes and they lived at the Wellington Inn with Sarah's daughter (my Nain) Edith Mary Barnett. Thanks for your help.
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Thought you might like to see this it is 5 Glan y Morfa Llanerchymor (the one with the car outside), it used to be on the same side as the ship market but a little bit after the ship towards greenfield. Did your dad have any older siblings as my Nain youngest uncle was born in 1903 he was called Samuel (Sammy Jones) he did have other siblings too.
Sarah
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I found a Baptist chapel on the old map, but it's not clear as to its precise location. More accurately, I found Sandy Lane farm. Both of these appear to be close to the Wellington in the census.
On Google maps I find Sandy Lane and what looks like a farm in the satellite view. Unfortunately, when I compare this modern satellite view map with the old OS map, it's clear that there have been massive changes in the meantime.
My best guess is that the Wellington is, or was, on the High Street, somewhere between the junctions with Gadlys Lane and Merllyn Lane.
Sorry it didn't work out better.
Tecwyn. :-[
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Google street view for almost all of the UK went live today. You will find Bagillt on there :)
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Why don't you try looking at a trade directory of about that period, I found Pigotts online for free but the one i wanted to look at was the 1830's I have just double checked and the inn didn't exist under that name in 1830, unfortunately i cant remember the site i got it from because i just saved the pages i thought would be of use.
Sarah
Tecwyn, it is the thought that counts, at least you tried to find it on the map
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Tecwyn. You've been very helpful - it's much appreciated. I'm happy now that I know roughly where it was so please don't trouble yourself any mote. Thanka again.
Hiraeth. Thanks for the Google Street info.
Sarah. The photo was great. I thought your Nain was 90 - so born around 1920? Dad's siblings all born in Hen Dafarn (the thatched pub opp the ship) were Gordon (b.1910). Edie (b.1912) and Victor (b.1921). My Dad (b.1914) was referred to as Willie at that time and he used to go to the chapel that must have been next to your Nain's.
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My Nain used to go to the chapel with one of her friends Beatrice who lived nextdoor or next door but one, my Nain had lots of aunts and uncles ranging in birth years from about 1886 to 1903. My Nain was an illegitimate child so was part brought up her grandparents who lived in Glan y Morfa and part by her mother who went on to marry someone else and live in Greenfield. I will ask her if she remembers your dad's family, she was poorly last night so haven't asked her today. She has a painting of the pub hanging up in her house, it is older than me but I don't know how old, I can take a picture of it if you would like to see?
Sarah
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Sarah. I'd love to see a photo of your Nain's painting. I hope she's feeling better tomorrow.
Phil.
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I went to see my Nain (she is much better thank you) and just as I was about to take the picture my battery died ::) so I will charge it up and take it tomorrow. Did a member of your fathers family drown?
Sarah
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Yes. My Taid - on the Cob.
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I'm sorry to hear that, I wasn't expecting that to be true, all Nain said was one of them drowned, I thought she was talking about one of your fathers siblings that you may or may not have heard of. Well least I know she has remembered the correct family. I have to say it is nice to 'meet' another Llanerch-y-mor decendent ;D
Sarah
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Nice to meet you too. I'm impressed with your Nain's memory - it was a long time ago, long before I was born, and thankfully all my memories of Hen Dafarn are very happy ones. I also used to get free crisps and pop from my auntie ;D not to mention the fresh shrimp butties ;D ;D
Phil.
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Perks of knowing the owner! ;) My Nain says that she used to sometimes wait with her brother outside the pub for her step father to finish work as he would get a beer in the pub and he would let them both have some, which made her mother very cross! I wonder if your family knew!
Sarah
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I have photo of painting but it won't let me post it says it is to big :'(
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If you send it by e-mail, you'll be able to reduce the file size.
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How?
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Have sent it via email ;D
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Hi Phil
I live in Bagillt. My mother who is 86 remembers the Wellington. The pub has been demolished and a Jehova's Witness church now occupies the site. It was in the High Street opposite a pub called The Feathers which is still standing. Hope this helps.
Jan
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Hi Jan,
That's really helpful. Many thanks. And please thank your mother also.
Phil.
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Hello not sure if this is any help but speaking to a friend whose mum ran the Bagillt Arms and she said that it used to be called the Wellington if so it is opposite the Stag Inn unfortunately derelict now
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Many thanks Bagilltpol for the information. It helps a lot as I hadn't been able to find a link between the Bagillt Arms and the Wellington Inn. I hope to get to see it now before it is demolished. Thanks again. Phil.
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It was known as the Wellington Inn in 1863
Liverpool Mercury. Dec 16 1863
Death on 12 Dec of Alfred Williams in his 2nd year. Son of Mr William Williams Wellington Inn Bagillt.
It was still referred to with that name in 1893
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Have a look at Bagillt High Street on Google Maps.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.262296,-3.159869,3a,75y,180h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sjvpVeQ_-eR4Afc5mfFRKtg!2e0
If this shows a picture of a white farm house then you are one end of the village before it re-joins the bypass. Rotate the camera (bottom right) and travel through the village. A great deal of the village has been knocked down and rebuilt but you will see 'The Blossoms' and past the community centre you will see 'The Stag Inn', opposite the 'Bagillt Arms Hotel' (boarded up) Further along you will see 'The Feathers' and that's it. The road joins the bypass.
The Jehovah 's Witness Church is set back amongst some blocks of flats, opposite and just a bit towards the village centre. Their car park may be the location of the Wellington.
Hope this helps.
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Eldon, that's brilliant. Many thanks indeed for taking the trouble to post that information. It's great being able to see it from home. I really appreciate it. Thanks again. Phil.