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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: roby on Tuesday 09 March 10 08:11 GMT (UK)
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My g grandfather was a Charles William SHARMAN b abt 1857 Northamptonshire, he had a brother Herbert William SHARMAN b. 1852 and a sister Elizabeth Kimbell SHARMAN B. 1850. They are in all censuses upto and including 1871 UK census but after this they disappear. Their father John SHARMAN died in 1870 anD
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Hi Roby,
I can tell you that none of them married in New Zealand up to 1956.
But there is a probate for a Charles William SHARMAN, a farmer of Oxford Christchurch NZ died 1938 (Will), No age given, and a similar probate for a Herbert William SHARMAN, a farmer of East Oxford died intestate 1899. Again, no age given.
Regards, riley
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Hi Roby,
there is a marriage in 1883 of a Charles Sharman to Mary Ann Powell and in the births there are 3 between 1887 and 1893 to Mary Ann and Charles William Sharman,also a stillbirth in 1885.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Home/
Cheers Janette
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Hi Roby,
You will need to purchase the marriage printout for Charles William and Mary Ann to get the ifo you want,you can do this online using the link to BDM;s in my last posting,
Cheers Janette
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Hi Roby,
I live in Oxford, I can check with the council to see what the cemetery records say if you like. :)
Leandra
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:) Also see Roby's more comprehensive thread, at >>
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442792.0.html
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Hi Roby
From your other thread (which gives additional information), you say your g/grandfather - Charles William SHARMAN - married in Australia in 1890 ... and died there in 1910.
Do you have his death certificate ?
* Who was your Charles SHARMAN married to ?
* Who were the children of that union ?
The Charles William SHARMAN who appears in the NZ birth index fathering children with a Mary Ann (presumably Mary Ann POWELL ?) ... appears to be someone else ?
His children are born between 1885 and 1893.
[There are marriage and death records on the NZ indexes for two of the daughters of Charles William and Mary Ann SHARMAN.]
~ Lu
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There is a death of a "Mary Ann SHARMAN - 1935 - aged 72 years - born circa 1863" on the NZ death index.
Sorry, unable to explain why there is no death showing (on the online index) for Charles William SHARMAN ... especially for the person of that name who has a probate record dated 1938. ?
~ Lu
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Hi roby,
As Lu says there is not death of Mary Ann Sharman, there is howerver a Mary Ann Sharman buried 14/5/1935 at the Oxford cemetery alongside Charles William Sharman buried 25/11/1938, he was a farmer, and next of kin was Miss Lucy Sharman-daughter.
Herbert Sharman is also at Oxford buried 2/7/1899
Also at Oxford
Martha and Robert Gilchrist (daughter)
Mabel and Horace Knowles (daughter)
Photos available if you think these are your people.
Charles and Herbert Sherman (sic) appear on the Ashley electoral role which includes Oxford, in 1881 as farmers.
Regards
Leandra
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Hi roby,
As Lu says there is not death of Mary Ann Sharman, there is howerver a Mary Ann Sharman buried 14/5/1935 at the
Leandra
??? That's not what "Lu" said, at all ! :D
There is a death of a "Mary Ann SHARMAN - 1935 - aged 72 years - born circa 1863" on the NZ death index.
~ Lu
:)
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Sorry Lu,
I meant death of Charles, in a hurry to get out the door :P
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Sorted. Cheers. :)
Incidentally, the death of Charles William SHARMAN - 1938 - appears on the online index as surname "SHERMAN". ???
~ Lu
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Hi Roby
In your other thread on the Canada board, a reply has been posted with a link to an NZETC article, which gives helpful information regarding the Charles William SHARMAN who settled at Oxford, Canterbury, New Zealand.
It confirms his birthplace, birth year (1858) .... his date of arrival in NZ ... etc.
Unfortunately, there is no passenger list available (online) for the vessel he arrived on "Lady Jocelyn" - to Lyttelton 1875" so not able to check names to see if Herbert W. SHARMAN was also on this voyage.
But, in light of the information "leandra" has now given you here, there seems a very strong possibility that the Charles William and Herbert William SHARMAN who were at Oxford NZ, are the people you found in the UK census returns ?
I added a note to your Canada thread suggesting you contact NZ BDM re: them finding the 1899 death for Herbert William SHARMAN (the surname has probably been misspelt on the online index ?) They should be able to find his record and thus confirm his age.
~ Lu
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Thank you to everyone for the enthusiatic and informative replies.
I found Herbert William Sharman death mistranscribed as SHANNAH
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Dear all,
Thank you all again for your replies, I am having problems with my replies and they are being posted before I complete them.
Your enthusiatic response is great.
I found Herbert William SHARMAN death mistranscribed as SHANNAN in 1899 aged 46 which fits an 1852 birth. :D
These findings and responses have been terrific, however as I have been unable to find my g grandfather Charles William SHARMAN B 1857 arrival in Australia and have "hung my hat on" the one that now appears to be resident in NZ with his brother Herbert William. I am somewhat taken back :o
Of course I will need to purchase the marriage certificate of Charles William SHARMAN and Mary Ann Powell to check parents etc, but if his parents are John and Martha Sharman I have not found my g grandfather but have researched another family, assuming that parents names are noted NZ marriage certificates.
Presently I feel a bit shellshocked, but I guess this is what researching is about, and I will need to wait for the certificate.
Once again thank you all for your help and I will post the result when the certificate arrives.
Roby
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One of the threads from the Canada board...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=442307.new;topicseen#new
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Dear All,
Today I received the marriage certificate for Charles William SHARMAN and Mary Ann POWELL (parents Joseph Powell and Mary Falley? ) aged 21 Married 27th September 1883
Charles William SHARMAN (parents are John Sharman and Martha Kimble) he was born at Cransley Northamptonshire and aged 25 when married.
The witnesses were Herbert SHARMAN and Andrew BAXTER
This certificate confirms that the Charles William SHARMAN that left England sometime after the 1871 census and settled in Oxford about 1874/75 and died in 1938 is not my g grandfather as I had believed. :'(
I had never felt comfortable with the fact that I could not find the siblings of my "Charles William SHARMAN" or any shipping record into Australia, therefore I decided to search for the siblings and hopefully establish or find some clue that this man was undoubtedly my ancestor. ;D
Well thanks to rootschatters, the siblings have been found and it has been established that he is not my ancestor
I need to restart my search for my elusive Charles William SHARMAN
Once again thank you one and all.
Roby
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There is also the possibility that he wanted to be younger or older on the marriage cert. Or not used his real name at all. Since you've followed all the Charles, perhaps you might want to look into the William Charles Sharman born 1853 Hardingstone and 1863 Northampton.
Better yet, I think starting over by asking for help on one board relative to the query, starting in Australia & adding to the actual facts you know for sure about your ancestor would be a wise move. ( first clear up all your existing ones by adding that you had the wrong person...modify the subject lines to say "completed", etc.) also let them know who you've chased down so they don't duplicate.
on Canada board: My g grandfather Charles William SHARMAN marriage certificate indicates that he was born in Northamptonshire and he was born about 1857/58 and he married in Australia in 1890 and died here in 1910.
J.J.
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Hi Roby
From your other thread (which gives additional information), you say your g/grandfather - Charles William SHARMAN - married in Australia in 1890 ... and died there in 1910.
Do you have his death certificate ?
* Who was your Charles SHARMAN married to ?
* Who were the children of that union ?
The Charles William SHARMAN who appears in the NZ birth index fathering children with a Mary Ann (presumably Mary Ann POWELL ?) ... appears to be someone else ?
His children are born between 1885 and 1893.
Mmm ... well I did hope that all the information provided in this NZ thread might have been sufficient to spare you the expense of purchasing the SHARMAN/POWELL marriage cert. ??
The recommendations made by "J.J." (in previous reply) make good sense. ;)
Good luck with your continuing seach.
~ Lu
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Hi roby,
Thats bad luck :( I hope you do find your relatives in the future.
Good Luck :)
Regards
Leandra
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Since Charles is your great-grandfather, roby, do you have a copy of the birth registration of your grandparent (Charles' child)? That should give you the names of his/her parents which would certainly make it easier to find a marriage registration.
Jacquie
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Since Charles is your great-grandfather, roby, do you have a copy of the birth registration of your grandparent (Charles' child)? That should give you the names of his/her parents which would certainly make it easier to find a marriage registration.
Jacquie
It does appear that Roby already has the marriage certificate. :)
on Canada board: My g grandfather Charles William SHARMAN marriage certificate indicates that he was born in Northamptonshire and he was born about 1857/58 and he married in Australia in 1890 and died here in 1910.
J.J.
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It does appear that Roby already has the marriage certificate ?
I don't believe she does. In this thread, roby says the marriage to Mary Ann Powell is not her Charles which I believe you had already proven before she obtained the certificate.
Roby has not given us a name for Charles' wife in any of her threads which leads me to believe that she doesn't know what it is. In this and other threads, people have been suggesting marriages and deaths and they've been latched on to until they were proven that they could not be her Charles thus we have different years for marriage and death mentioned in various posts in various threads.
Roby, I'm not trying to pick on you or hurt your feelings. Please let us know do you have a birth registration for your Sharman grandparent? If so, were the names of his/her parents listed? If so, what were their names?
Jacquie
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It does appear that Roby already has the marriage certificate. :)
on Canada board: My g grandfather Charles William SHARMAN marriage certificate indicates that he was born in Northamptonshire and he was born about 1857/58 and he married in Australia in 1890 and died here in 1910.
I don't believe she does.
Roby has not given us a name for Charles' wife in any of her threads which leads me to believe that she doesn't know what it is.
Jacquie
Well I prefer to take "roby" on his / her word. :)
For the record, the following can be found on the New South Wales (Australia) online BMD :
Marriage
3205 / 1890
SHARMAN - Charles W.
WEALANDS - Aimee L.
Reg'n. District : Corowa
[You'll note that "roby" has the WEALANDS surname (and place of origin) amongst the names she is researching. ]
Additionally on the NSW BMD, can be found, two children of this couple.
And a death ...
1218 / 1910
SHARMAN - Charles W.
52 years *
Reg'n District : Corowa
[* Written in the space where parents' names, if known, are usually included. ]
~ Lu
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Hello Lucy and Jacquie!!! (and all!)
You're fantastic researchers on the boards!
I think I'll ask for this topic to be locked, & we are "Talking amongst ourselves" anyway and the frustration from it all is sending us in the wrong direction.
Major hugs for all the work that you do!!!!....J.J.