RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Mary34 on Sunday 07 March 10 00:29 GMT (UK)
-
Susannah MacCormack was born a sea 31 January 1972, I believe in NZ waters. I have no idea of the name of the ship and wanting get a printout of her birth certificate in an attempt to access the names of her parents. Susannah married Capt Frederick William Daniel Cox in Nelson NZ 15 September 1890, I have a printout of the certificate but am having trouble reading the maiden name of her mother, Harriet and also want to track where they have all come from. Any assistance would be gratefully received. Marj
-
So what is the fathers name and what does the mothers name look like ?
any chance of cropping it and posting a pic of her surname ?
-
Sorry, don't know how I missed those important details. Her fathers name is Robert MacCormack and mother's is Harriet and her maiden name looks like Moutray. Thanks Marj
-
Will have a go at the cropping in a couple of minutes. Cheers Marj
-
Hello Mary34
Does the name of Susannah's father, not appear on the marriage printout ?
Can you tell us please, where you got Susannah's exact date of birth from ?
I can't see a New Zealand registered birth for a "Susannah MacCORMACK" ("McCORMACK") ... however there is the following > >
1871/ 6544
McCORMICK - Susannah Jane ???
[Place of registration / names of parents - not shown on index.]
So, wondering if the date of birth you have given, may be a baptism date ?
~ Lu
-
oops ... Mk_2 got the jump on me. ;D
Hmm ... not finding anything for a Robert MacCORMACK (and var.) at present.
Who were the marriage witnesses in 1890 ?
~ Lu
-
In answer to Lucy - the date and born at sea came from a family bible. I too found the Susannah Jane birth but it is not it.
I am having trouble attaching a copy of the parents names please bear with me, maybe I need to downsize the size of the file. Marj
-
Another try at attaching the scan
-
Sorry about the size, but at least no magnifying glass is needed. The marriage of Frederic William Cox and Susannah MacCormack took place in Nelson NZ Sept 15 1890 and that is all the information that I have verified for Susannah and the MacCormack family. Cheers Marj
-
Am wondering if I am correct re Susannah being born at sea, would her birth be registered wherever the boat had come from. I don't even know that. The family never talked about any of the family back past Frederick and Susannah which has made it very hard. I have managed to go back a wee way with Frederic and pleased with that, but the MacCormack's are a bit of a puzzle and I am so lacking in experience at all this, but hooked non-the less. Cheers Marj
-
cannot find any Harriet MOUTRAY, anywhere, other than two in United States (IGI) !
-
Thanks for trying. Just remember my late husband's mother telling me that Susannah was irish, does this help in any way and is Moutray an Irish name maybe, I know that MacCormack could be. I wish I was a bit better at this. Cheers
Marj
-
Have just done a name search in Ireland and there is Moutray listed. I will take a break and see if I can learn anything from Ireland a little later. Cheers Marj
-
Hi Marj
Great job with that attachment ! :)
I'm still thinking about what Harriet's maiden name might be. ;)
But, in the meantime, have found burials for a couple, who may well be Susannah's parents ?
Karori Cemetery, Wellington
McCORMACK - Harriett
Died: 1920 - aged 83 years (born circa 1837)
Plot 60N PUBLIC 2
... and in same plot >>
McCORMACK - Robert
Died: 1911 - aged 62 years (bc 1849 ???)
Occupation : Shipwright
~ Lu
-
Wow, thanks heaps, you just could be correct. I will order some printouts on Monday and see what I can find out. How wish people jotted down their family history more in the old days. Even harder because it is my late husband's family history that I am doing. It is good therapy for me, but my how time consuming and interesting at the same time. Cheers and thanks. Marj
-
Link to Wellington cemeteries > >
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/
Click on >> "Online services"
-
They seem to have turned Mc into Mac at some time which I know happens. I was of course searching for Mac. Dumb me. Thanks again. Cheers Marj
-
Hi Marj
Yes, it is all very time-consuming ... but loads of fun. :)
What information did Susannah give on her marriage, regarding her birthplace ? [Has she also stated "born at sea" ?]
~ Lu
-
Absolutely nothing, but parents must have been living in Nelson earlier on as the marriage took place at their residence at Hardy Street, Nelson (never noticed that before, too busy looking at the rest). Sorry it does say in the birthplace column :At Sea"
Tonights endeavours will be to find a ship with them all on. Cheers Marj
-
My brother-in-law is just coming to terms with the fact that his middle name has been spelt incorrectly as MacCormack for 60 odd years!!! Should have been Mc and that Grandpa Cox (Frederic) has been spelt with no K on the end in NZ but Frederick in Australia. Cheers Marj
-
Just wondering if there is a way of finding out if Robert & Harriet McCormack had any other children apart from Susannah. I do seem to remember that someone said there was a sister of Susannah called Elizabeth who came out at the same time? I guess I should assume they landed at Nelson and start searching for ship in 1872. Hmm will do tonight. Cheers
Marj
-
Those death certificates are goldmines, wait till you get the copies ... :)
well done Lucy ...
Yep, coming from Ireland is probably the problem.
searched Scotspeople but nothing ...
-
I am learning heaps from you all and appreciate it so much. Off for a bit of a night out.
Cheers
Marj
-
Hi Marj
The names of the marriage witnesses will be on that (1890) printout you have. Most usually of course they were relatives of the bride and groom ... and it's always worthwhile "investigating" them further.
If you'd like to put the witnesses names here, we can do a check.
The death printouts of either parent, will only give you the age and sex of their "living issue" - as at the date they (parents) died.
School records may be available, that will turn up names of siblings. (Sorry, I don't have access to these, but someone else here, may be able to help you.)
~ Lu
-
Just checked the witnesses. They were Mrs Anstice, Nelson and Matthew Anstice, Nelson. Written after Mrs Anstice name is baker, which I assume was her profession. Maybe they were neighbours seeing the wedding was held at home. I will do a bit of googling. Cheers again and thanks.
-
I would appreciate help with school records from anyone who can access the information. Thanks Marj
-
Have ordered printouts for both and hopefully will get a fix on where the Moutray family are from. Hope it is US as doesn't seem to be anywhere else that I have tried. Will report back once the printouts arrive next week.
Cheers
Marj
-
Just wondering if there is a way of finding out if Robert & Harriet McCormack had any other children apart from Susannah. I do seem to remember that someone said there was a sister of Susannah called Elizabeth who came out at the same time?
"Elizabeth" possibly now found ?
[Martha Elizabeth BINGHAM (married NZ - William ANSTICE 1883) - dau. of Harriet's first marriage. ]
Further information posted to your "Harriet and Robert McCORMACK shipping list" thread.
~ Lu
-
Hello Mary34
Does the name of Susannah's father, not appear on the marriage printout ?
Can you tell us please, where you got Susannah's exact date of birth from ?
I can't see a New Zealand registered birth for a "Susannah MacCORMACK" ("McCORMACK") ... however there is the following > >
1871/ 6544
McCORMICK - Susannah Jane ???
[Place of registration / names of parents - not shown on index.]
ADDED: 22/03/2010 --- place of registration -- Nelson :
So, wondering if the date of birth you have given, may be a baptism date ?
~ Lu
-
Hi Lu
Maybe she didn't get registered until her father arrived in NZ? I am taking it that the birth record doesn't show the parent's name. If this is correct is there any point in me ordering the printout? Do you know for a fact that there are no details of parents on the birth records. I meant to order the printout the other day but other things over took me. It seems strange to me that the second name of Jane does not appear on any other records.
Cheers
Marj
-
Hi Marj
Whoops ... I hadn't intended for the above, to be a new posting .... was just editing (adding place of birth registration). :D
However ... to answer your questions.
I am taking it that the birth record doesn't show the parent's name.
A. The actual Birth record will show names of parents.
"1871 / 6544 - McCORMICK - Susannah Jane" is ALL the information that is given on the online Birth Index. [In almost all cases, the online Historical index, does not state the names of parents for births which were registered prior to about 1875.]
If this is correct is there any point in me ordering the printout?
A. See above
Do you know for a fact that there are no details of parents on the birth records.
A. As explained above (parents names are given on the actual birth record .... but prior to abt. 1875, parents names do not appear on the online birth index.)
Hope this helps.
~ Lu
-
Thanks Lu
Will order the printout shortly.
Cheers
Marj
-
It seems strange to me that the second name of Jane does not appear on any other records.
Hi Marj
It's entirely up to you of course, whether you wish to purchase this birth record. ;)
I agree, it is strange that the second name of "Jane" does not appear on other records, but this sort of thing is not entirely unheard of. [I have a g/grandfather whose second name was not used on his marriage or death certs. and yet it appears on his children's birth and marriage records and his wife's death cert. Jolly annoying as he had a frightfully common Scottish name and I still haven't found his birth.]
Perhaps it's worth sending a (cheeky) email enquiry (re: "Susannah Jane McCORMICK - 1871") to BDM - prior to making a purchase ? ;)
Tell them (only) that you have a "problem" with the spelling of the surname "McCORMICK (as opposed to McCORMACK) and ask them to check their records. Also advise them that the mother's name is "Harriet". Ideally, they should be in a position to at least confirm whether "a Harriet" was the mother of the Susannah Jane.
~ Lu
-
Hi
I know this thread was more about the MacCormack side of the family, but in relation to the Cox side, I am trying to find out who brought up the 2nd daughter of Eliza Cox. The father was not Daniel Cox, but a Patrick Boylan, this wee girl would have been a half sister to Frederic William Daniel Cox.
Here is the link to my Australian enquiries where the wee girl was born and registered. She was brought back NZ and placed in the hands of Eliza's brother William Fletcher and his wife Christina, but I cannot find any record of her and would love to know what happened to her.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,446014.0.html
Thanks in anticipation
Marj
-
Hi Lu
Another curly one for our family is Eliza Cox (nee Fletcher) and her child by Patrick Boylan. I have decided to try and trace her as she is blood in anycase. I have searched the marriages and can only come up with Elizabeth Alice Boylan who married William Fletcher. Now that seems strange as I think that Eliza's brother William and his wife Christina may have brought her up and her name on the birth is Caroline Boylan. Here is the link to where I got to but no takers http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,446014.0.html
Now I really should get some sleep so good night
Cheers
Marj
-
Hi Marj,
There is a 1905 marriage of a Caroline Fletcher to James Wyllie 16/08/1905 ,maybe the Fletcher's adopted Caroline,just a thought,
Cheers Janette
-
thanks, that could be correct and had been running through my mind about adoption, will get a printout when I return from holiday in a couple of weeks.
Cheers
Marj
-
Hi Lu
Another curly one for our family is Eliza Cox (nee Fletcher) and her child by Patrick Boylan.
Her name on the birth is Caroline Boylan. Here is the link to where I got to but no takers
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,446014.0.html
Hi Marj
Hmmm ... not surprised "there were no takers". ::) :D
Even though you provided a link (to another thread), any potential helpers still need to do an enormous amount of reading, (and view links to other information already sourced), in order to get to grips with the "story". It all takes quite a bit of finding. ;) And maybe help would have been forthcoming if your initial query (here) had mentioned the child's name ... instead of "2nd daughter of Eliza Cox" .... and "this wee girl" ???
I did earlier look at the "COX- related" threads on the Australian Board (and need to do so again to refresh my memory).
My "take" on matters, is that it was the elder daughter of Eliza COX who was taken into the custody of William and Christina FLETCHER (probably on a temporary basis ?). The infant BOYLAN child seems (for a time) to have been taken care of by Eliza's sister (a Mrs. BELL ... was it ?).
But aren't both of these girls noted as "living issue" on Eliza's death certificate ? I tend to think that Eliza, some time later, resumed responsibility for them ?
I would rule out the Caroline FLETCHER marriage 1905 to WYLLIE.
I have some information for "a Caroline" - whom I think is a much more likely "candidate" ;) - which I'll post shortly.
~ Lu
-
Thanks Lu
I really need this break. I got told off in Uk thread for having 2 which is why I put the link in. The worst part is remembering to put all the details in. Tonight when my packing is finished I will print all the threads off and do some reading on the plane and make some notes. Originally I was not going to pursue Caroline, but kept thinking how she is really a part of the grand scheme which is probably why I didn't give her details.
Cheers and thanks
Marj
-
Hi Marj
Aw ... not "telling you off" ;) ... just offering an explanation as to why your query was probably not picked up on. (Many helpers on RC simply don't have the time to read through all the layers of info. It's easier to join in when a thread is in its "infancy" ... but once threads start expanding and also if other links are added, it becomes something of a mission to get to grips with.) :)
And yes, I know the dilemma about "just how much info one should add to an initial query" ... have been guilty myself on occasions, of omitting the "important stuff. :D
Posting information for "Caroline", next.
* Can you tell me also please, where Eliza COX died ?
* Also, what is the name of Eliza COX's eldest daughter,
(married name / place of death).
~ Lu
-
Caroline - daughter of Eliza COX
From thread on OZ board - reference supplied by Jenn ("tropical J" ) :
Birth - Australia
1877
BOYLAN - Caroline Edith
Father: Patrick
Mother : Eliza FLETCHER
Reg'n No : 7250 District : Carlton - VIC
[And noting also, that the NZ newspaper report (re: Eliza COX v. Patrick BOYLAN), stated the wrong year of birth (1876) for this child. ]
Marj ... I'm pretty sure that the following is the child "Caroline Edith" : [* There appears to be a "transcription error" with the marriage though ?]
NZ Marriage
Colin* Edith Caroline COX -- James Peter ST. CLAIR - 1900
Date of Marriage : 22 March 1900
[* "Colin" appears to be an "error" --- very likely it is a corruption of the name "Caroline" ... though I've no idea why "Caroline" appears after "Edith" - unless it was a correction ? But see next post re: birth of a child to this couple. ]
Given all the "drama" concerning Eliza COX and Patrick BOYLAN (particularly that, over the registration of the child's birth), I don't see anything "odd" about Caroline having eventually taken on the same surname (COX) as her Mother and older siblings.
My view is that this "Colin Edith Caroline COX" is much more likely (than any other) to have been the girl born as "Caroline Edith BOYLAN".
~ Lu
-
NZ Birth
1900
ST. CLAIR - Dring* Leslie D.o.b. 4 February 1900
Parents: Caroline Edith ... and James Peter
Added: This birth was registered at Wellington - in 2nd quarter :
* "Dring" ... maybe this was the correct name of the child ?
I did however check the microfiche - handwritten entry, rather hard to read. ::) At a pinch, the name could be "Oring" ?
Problem ... no further information found in NZ for this child.
[Have searched St. CLAIR / SINCLAIR ... and on second name "Leslie" ... am assuming the child was male.].
~ Lu
-
NZ Death
1901 - ST. CLAIR - James Peter - aged 36 years
Added: Date of death - 12 June 1901
I suspect this is the death of the husband of Caroline Edith ST. CLAIR. ??? It too was registered at Wellington.
~ Lu
-
Marj
I can find nothing further in NZ records for Caroline Edith ST. CLAIR ... nor for the child born of the union with James Peter ST. CLAIR.
[B, D and M checked ... no obvious re-marriage for Caroline. A search of Australian records is probably needed ?]
Note: You'll see the the child was born 4 February 1900 and that the marriage took place on 22 March 1900. It seems the birth registration ( in 2nd quarter) was done after the marriage took place .
No burial / cemetery records found in the Wellington area for James Peter ST. CLAIR. (Hutt area not checked.)
~ Lu
-
Hi Lu
Thanks again. I will do a search in Aus while I am in Adelaide and see what I can come up with.
Signing out now for a few days.
Cheers
Marj
-
Hi Marj,
I bought a book with a family story written in it, and after posting pictures on my family history group page someone tracked down your post here as the same family. It tells a story of Elizabeth Anne Luginza(?), Martin Fowler, Violet Cox and Myrtle Cox. Myrtle died in Sydney in 1928. I'm happy to send pictures, etc, but as a new member am not allowed to PM.
-
Hi wilson123425
Welcome to Rootschat. :)
You only need to make two more posts before you can use the PM facility here.
So just make two postings to this thread .... just a "smiley face" or similar will do. ;)
~ Lu
-
Thank you Lu :)
-
And another :) I'll PM you the pictures now, if I can, Marj.
-K
-
Hi
Have just received your message and am not too good with facebook, but will get someone to help me. Thanks so much.
Marj
-
I am going to forward this to another family member as the book may have been from her late cousins estate. Have not been in contact with her for some time and hope she has the same email address.
I am assuming that the comments were loose leafed in the book and not actually part of the book.
I have a photo of Myrtle Cox's headstone, but not a lot of information on the others.
If they are mentioned within the book, maybe I could try and source a copy of it.
Thanks again
-
They are written on the inside cover of the book, the book is a NZ place name book. I'm going to try to copy the pictures in here, we'll see how it goes...
-
This was the book they were in, with an insert which was also in there.
-
Sorry pictures are so large, you may need to scroll over to see it all.
-
Hi Kerrie
No problem, I think they will be clearer than the ones on face book which I have managed to save and print.
Will try these pages now and thanks so much. I did PM you, but think I screwed it. Am a bit out of practice.
Cheers
Marj
-
Hi Mary34,
If you'd like some guidance on sending Personal Messages, see
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Spades