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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Juszach on Saturday 27 February 10 02:17 GMT (UK)

Title: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 27 February 10 02:17 GMT (UK)
Hello all, looking for a little help identifying my gggrandfather's uniform? I just received his death cert dated 1926 that indicates he was a Railway porter. Could this be a railway uniform?  His name was Thomas Snashall and he lived for at least the last 20 years of his life in Whitstable.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Redroger on Saturday 27 February 10 20:09 GMT (UK)
Though I might be wrong the uniform looks a little elaborate for this type of job, it reminds me of a scout leader's badge on the arm.Was he involved in this movement or any other activities outside his work?
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 27 February 10 21:44 GMT (UK)
Not sure Redroger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: grandarog on Saturday 27 February 10 21:56 GMT (UK)
Can you make out the letters on the collar badges on the orriginal photo?
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 27 February 10 22:46 GMT (UK)
It appears it could be 4 maybe 5 characters. THe last looks like it could be an R maybe even a CR
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: grandarog on Saturday 27 February 10 22:52 GMT (UK)
Possibly South Eastern & Chatham Railway ( nicknamed Slow Easy Comfortable Riding) .
  Whitstable would have been near enough for him to have worked .
  I dont know SE&CR served Whitstable .
  I know there was a Canterbury and Whitstabl line (nicknamed the Crab & Winkle line)
 Regards Rog
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: PrueM on Saturday 27 February 10 22:57 GMT (UK)
I have adjusted the lapel image a bit and it looks to me like "WD"  ???
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: grandarog on Saturday 27 February 10 23:22 GMT (UK)
I have searched the 1911 & 1901 census on FindMyPast and there is no sign of Thomas on either. he is on the 1871 with his family Dad was a Police Constable at Chislet . His brother Frederickis on the 1901 also a Police Sergeant living at Faversham with his family.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 27 February 10 23:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks PrueM for enhancing the photo. It definitely could be just two letters or more letters that are more close together giving the appearance of 2 letters. Hard to say..

I have searched for pictures of Railman to see if the outfit looks like a railman uniform but I haven't found anything conclusive. Today, I received Thomas's marriage cert dated 1912 and it indicates his occupation as a Railway Goods porter and his address is 66 Middle Wall, Whistable .

Grandarog, that was kind of you to search for Thomas and family on the census.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: PrueM on Sunday 28 February 10 01:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Juszach,

What age would your g-g-grandfather be in the photo?  Do you know when it was taken?  From what I can see it's pre-postcard and pre-gelatin prints, so could be from about 1900 at the latest - do you have the picture and can you show us the back of it?

Thinking this might help the railway experts to pin down a place/railway for you.

I did see some arms badges on the internet, for sale, that look like the one in the photo - they were for railway St John's Ambulance officers.  It could be a shape common to other badges, though, I wouldn't know!

Prue
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Sunday 28 February 10 01:29 GMT (UK)
Hey Pru, you are correct it is a Post card. As far as age I know that he lived to be 59 and died in 1926. Your guess is as good as mine as to how old he was in the photo. My guess would be at least 40's based on receding hairline and eyes...
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: PrueM on Sunday 28 February 10 01:55 GMT (UK)
Ahhh, I thought that it wasn't a postcard because the photo itself looked like an earlier type!  Shows what I know!  ;D

The divided back postcards were introduced in Britain in 1902, so your photo would obviously be from some time after that.  I agree that he looks 40-something, so perhaps you're looking for a date around 1910, give or take.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: km1971 on Sunday 28 February 10 07:57 GMT (UK)
You need Issue 76 of Ancestors. I have recycled my copy. That covered railway ancestors. I am pretty sure that the arm badge is to show he is a authorised railway porter. They would visit houses and businesses collecting and delivering goods on their carts. So they would need something more that just a railway company waistcoat.

Ken
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Henry7 on Sunday 28 February 10 11:48 GMT (UK)
The railway at Whitstable began in 1830 as the Canterbury & Whitstable.

It was taken over by the S.E.R. (South Eastern Railway) in 1844, which became part of the S.E.& C.R. (South Eastern & Chatham Railway) in 1899.

The S.E.& C.R. lasted until 1923.

Sorry, can't say about the uniform, but the badge on the sleeve looks a bit like the S.E.R badge, and maybe the S.E.& C.R. badge was similar.

 
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Sunday 28 February 10 12:57 GMT (UK)
Thank you km1971 and Henry 7. I will do a little more digging to find Ancestor, Issue 76 and to see what the S.E.R./S.E. & C.R. badge looks like.

Thank you everyone for offering your assistance on this one.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 28 February 10 18:46 GMT (UK)
The mention of the St. John's Ambulance movement has rung some vague bells in my head. The movement was very active in the railway industry, and I wonder whether the uniform, and I still have doubts about it being one was that worn by rail workers when acting as Officers of the St. John's ambulance brigade ?
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: belowtheducks on Tuesday 22 October 13 12:33 BST (UK)
Hello,
What a surprise  :o this is my grandfather Thomas Snashall. My maternal grandfather. Not only have I never been able to trace the Snashall familly, I now have for the first time ever, not only news but a photo too ;D
I guess who ever wrote this about their gggrandfather - we must be related ;D It would be nice to know.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: grandarog on Wednesday 23 October 13 14:33 BST (UK)
Confused  :-\ As to why if the chap pictured is Thomas why does it say George father of William on the back  ???
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Sunday 27 October 13 00:10 BST (UK)
Confused  :-\ As to why if the chap pictured is Thomas why does it say George father of William on the back  ???
Grandarog, the writing on the back is my father's handwriting. We knew him to be George but with research have determined that his name is really Thomas George Snashall father of William George Snashall )my great grandfather)
Hello,
What a surprise  :o this is my grandfather Thomas Snashall. My maternal grandfather. Not only have I never been able to trace the Snashall familly, I now have for the first time ever, not only news but a photo too ;D
I guess who ever wrote this about their gggrandfather - we must be related ;D It would be nice to know.
belowthe ducks, I will private message you. Always great to find family.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Geoff-E on Sunday 27 October 13 08:09 GMT (UK)
belowthe ducks, I will private message you. Always great to find family.

belowtheducks may perhaps receive your PM but, unless the PM system has changed somewhat, won't be able to reply until he/she has made another post or two.  :-\
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: despair on Sunday 27 October 13 08:24 GMT (UK)
There is a resemblance to the porter/signalman uniform depicted here from the Bluebell Railway in Sussex.The text suggests this was not unique to this railway.

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/kingscote/history1.html

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Sunday 27 October 13 16:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks dispair I will check it out!

There is a resemblance to the porter/signalman uniform depicted here from the Bluebell Railway in Sussex.The text suggests this was not unique to this railway.

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/kingscote/history1.html

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Redroger on Sunday 27 October 13 19:51 GMT (UK)

http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/kingscote/history1.html

Regards
Roger

Interesting site; apart from the extremely intrusive and annoying commercials i.e. This is not a joke you have won ----
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: belowtheducks on Friday 01 November 13 07:46 GMT (UK)
Hi,
I have tried to private message you but I dont have access :(
The birth certificate I have is for May (my mother) daughter of THOMAS SNASHALL and May Bell Bartlett (then the wife of T. Snashall) who were living at 66 Middle Walk, Whitstable.  Thomas Snashalls profession - Railway Porter ;D
My mothers birth was registered on 21.9.1912
Does this tie in with your research? The only thing is, there are no "middle names"showing on the birth certificate :( BUT!! it is a massive coincidence isnt it?! ;)
Kind regards
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: despair on Friday 01 November 13 14:10 GMT (UK)
For information,though I can't quote details,I believe Thomas is mis-transcribed as Mashall in the major 1911 census databases.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 02 November 13 18:06 GMT (UK)
No Coincidence, we are family. ;D :D ;)

Hi,
I have tried to private message you but I dont have access :(
The birth certificate I have is for May (my mother) daughter of THOMAS SNASHALL and May Bell Bartlett (then the wife of T. Snashall) who were living at 66 Middle Walk, Whitstable.  Thomas Snashalls profession - Railway Porter ;D
My mothers birth was registered on 21.9.1912
Does this tie in with your research? The only thing is, there are no "middle names"showing on the birth certificate :( BUT!! it is a massive coincidence isnt it?! ;)
Kind regards
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 02 November 13 18:10 GMT (UK)
Thank you Roger!!! I wondered why I couldn't find him on the 1911. You are the best!

For information,though I can't quote details,I believe Thomas is mis-transcribed as Mashall in the major 1911 census databases.

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: despair on Saturday 02 November 13 18:32 GMT (UK)
I think these may be the references for 1901 and 1891,showing he was previously married and only became a porter after 1901,though I can't find a matching railway employment record.

1891  714  76  30

1901  799  69  11

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 02 November 13 19:05 GMT (UK)
Thank you Roger, I have only begun to scratch the surface of trying to locate any kind of railway information on him. I did notice on the 1911(thank you by the way, I went to ancestry and looked at the census and found him) census in pencil it appears to show the letters SETC but think its mistake . Wouldn't it have been more likely to be SECR railway for that region?

Lisa


Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: grandarog on Saturday 02 November 13 19:26 GMT (UK)
That is written as SE&C Rly  South East and Chatham Railway not SETC as you have read it. :)
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: despair on Saturday 02 November 13 19:28 GMT (UK)
I think SECR would be correct as Henry7 said.Perhaps when Thomas was asked where he worked by the enumerator he said "South Eastern Train Company"?

Regards
Roger

Added-Just seen Grandarog's proper explanation.
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Saturday 02 November 13 19:42 GMT (UK)
Ahhh, now that sounds right. Now to find railway records!
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: despair on Sunday 03 November 13 18:23 GMT (UK)
I don't think that the Ancestry database covers the South Eastern & Chatham Railway.I wonder whether Journal 24 of the following would have detailed records:-

http://www.railwayancestors.org.uk/prices.html

Regards
Roger
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Juszach on Sunday 03 November 13 22:28 GMT (UK)
Thanks Roger, I just ordered it.  :D
Title: Re: Early 1900's Railway uniform?
Post by: Redroger on Monday 04 November 13 12:20 GMT (UK)
You could look on The National Archives Kew, website to see if they have it, then ask a kindly visiting Rootschatter to take a look.
(Yet another) Roger