RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: AlbatrossIV on Friday 26 February 10 21:40 GMT (UK)
-
Looking for any help on a marriage, I believe in Berlin, NY but the death certificates of the two parties only states Berlin, USA and there are about 10 Berlin's in the US (MD, NH, TN, MO, IL, WV, OR, OH, ND) but NY was a likely place to start as William arrived in NY about 1850 from Germany. The people are William Marion FAY (German - so name may have been spelt differently) and Eliza Lydia Meakes (English). The married between 1861 and 1864.
Any thoughts are welcomed.
-
New York State did not start statewide vital records registration until 1881, so these marriage records might not exist. If you haven't done so already, I would suggest checking at www.familysearch.org, which sometimes has older records.
Have you found where either of them were in the 1860 census? Maybe that could narrow down the town where they might have been married.
-
According to this http://distantcousin.com/obits/aus/1900/1921/jul/faywilliammarion.html, he was born in Buffalo NY and the marriage would have taken place in Australia circa 1898.
If Eliza was the Elizabeth Emily Lydia Meakes mentioned along with William Marion Fay in this Australian 1877 inquest report on her mother, she would have been born around 1862. http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5941722?searchTerm=passmore+meakes (EDIT - link corrected)
-
William's son Franklin Ethelbert Fay was born in Berlin Wisconsin circa 1864 per his Australian naturalisation papers - see digitised file at NAA http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=1744097&I=1&SE=1. He arrived in Australia in November 1879 on the Hankow from Plymouth, England.
-
Just to confuse matters further...
The 1870 census for La Crosse, Wisconsin has this listing:
Fay Wm 28 exhibitor born New York
Fay Elizabeth 24 born England
Fay Frank 6 born Illinois
.......................................................
When William Marion Fay's son Franklin Fay entered the US from Canada on September 26 1907, he said that he had previously lived for 12 years in Chicago
-
If Eliza was the Elizabeth Emily Lydia Meakes
Elizabeth Emily Lydia ("Lilly") Meakes married Tom Wood in 1883. She was the daughter of Alfred Moore Meakes, and I think Eliza Lydia must have been Alfred's sister. The family came from Reading in Berkshire. There was also a brother (?) Benjamin Meakes who was born Reading circa 1837 and died at his nephew Franklin's house in Melbourne in 1902. Benjamin had an iilegitimate son also named Alfred Moore Meakes born Bournemouth in 1890. The mother was Ellen Le Bouge (in the 1891 census as Ellen Gibson Meakes). That Alfred was in Los Angeles in 1920 but I've lost track of him after that.
-
You say you are looking for a 1861-64 marriage in Berlin, USA [state unknown, possibly NY] between William Marion Fay and Eliza Lydia Meakes. Fay, who entered the US in about 1850, was German so his name may have been changed. Meakes was born in England.
On the other hand, you cite other information that Fay was born in Buffalo, NY and was married in Australia in about 1898 to Meakes who was born in about 1862.
Then you add that William Fay had a son [Franklin Ethelbert Fay] born in Wisconsin in about 1864 and that he arrived in Australia [via England] in 1879. Or alternatively, the son was born in Illinois and was in Canada in 1907 having lived for 12 years in Chicago.
Meanwhile, you have Elizabeth Emily Lydia ("Lilly") Meakes marrying Tom Wood in 1883 with some kind of confused relationship to Meakeses in Reading, Bournemouth and Los Angeles.
>>>>>
Sorry, but I have totally lost the plot and I wonder if you haven’t lost it as well. Perhaps you could simplify the question.
-
It wasn't me that asked the question...I'm just posting information that I have found.
-
Sorry, I didn’t make myself clear. I thought that you were taking all these various manifestations of Fay and Meakes to be somehow the same people that were referred to in the original question. That seems doubtful.
-
Erato,
Not sure why you are being so dismissive.
William Marion Fay or "Professor Fay" was a showman, and quite famous in his time as exhibitor of, and co-performer with, the Davenport brothers who were spiritualist illusionists. Some contemporary reports say he was born in Darmstadt Germany, others say he was born USA of German parents. He toured Europe with the Davenports in the 1860's and 1870's, and went with them to Australia circa 1875. Australia became his home thereafter. In his Australian naturalisation papers he said he was born in Buffalo, NY. He died in Melbourne in 1921.
There seems to be no doubt that Eliza Lydia Meakes was his wife - the question is where and when where they married.
-
Not dismissive but confused.
The real question, I think, is whether the people in Wisconsin are the same as the people in Australia. Or is it all an illusion?
Let’s put together a timeline:
~ 1837 - Benjamin Meakes [hypothetical brother of Eliza Lydia Meakes] born in Reading
~1850 - W.M. Fay immigrates to US? or maybe he didn’t
~1862 - Eliza Lydia Meakes born in England
~1861-1864 - WilliamFay and Eliza Lydia Meakes marry in Berlin, USA
~1864 - Fay’s son Franklin Ethelbert born in Berlin, Wisconsin or maybe in Illinois
~1860s-1870s - W.M. Fay tours Europe with the Davenports
1870 - William, Elizabbeth and Frank Fay in Lacrosse, Wisconsin
~ 1875 - W.M. Fay goes to Australia
1877 - Australian inquest on Elizabeth Emily Lydia Meakes’s mother
1879 - Franklin Ethelbert Fay arrives in Australia from England
1883 - Elizabeth Emily Lydia ("Lilly") Meakes [daughter of Eliza Lydia Meakes’s hypothetical brother Alfred Moore Meakes] marries Tom Wood
1890 - Benjamin Meakes’s illegitimate son Alfred Moore Meakes born in Bournemouth, mother Ellen Le Bouge
1891 - Ellen Le Bouge recorded as Ellen Gibson Meakes on census
~ 1895-1907 - Franklin Fay living in Chicago
1902 - Benjamin Meakes dies at Franklin Fay’s house in Melbourne
1907 - Franklin Fay enters US from Canada
1898 - Fay and Meakes marry in Australia
1920 - Alfred Meakes [son of Benjamin] in Los Angeles
1921 - death of W.M. Fay
Clearly not all of this can be true. If Eliza Lydia was born in 1862, then she is not the mother of Franklin Ethelbert Fay born in 1864. If Franklin was living in Chicago from 1895 to 1907 then he wasn’t in Melbourne when his uncle Benjamin died there in 1902. If Eliza Lydia married W.M. Fay in the US in ~1864, it is unlikely that she remarried him in Australia in 1898. And so on.
-
Him
No help with the marriage but this may help clarify some of the questions asked re the Australian side.
Franklin Ethelbert FAY ( listed as a solicitor) appears in the Australian Electoral Rolls with his wife Angelina Margaret....Sorry I can't help with Victorian records but someone on the Australia board will be able to assist.
1903 - 313 Park Street South Melbourne
1909 - Brougham Place Kew
1919 - 28 Brougham Place Kew
1924 - 28 Brougham Place (with Eliza Lydia and Hilda)
1931 - 28 Brougham Place
1936 - 28 Brougham Place
1937 - 28 Brougham Place
1943 - 28 Brougham Place
1949 and 1954 - 28 Brougham Place - Angelina Margaret is alone
William Marion and Eliza Lydia
1903 - Brougham Place - Independent Means
1914 - 34 Northcote Rd Armadale - Financier
1919 - Omro Cotham Road Kew - Financier
Franklin FAY aged 15 was listed as a saloon passenger aboard the HANKOW London to Sydney via Melbourne - he is crossed out so may have disembarked in Melbourne (Yes - Confirmed arrived Melbourne 15 Nov 1879)
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
Mr Franklin FAY 48 a Solicitor b USA
Mrs Angelina FAY 38 b Australia travelled from Sydney to BC aboard the MOANA Their final destination was listed as London - 26 Sep 1907 when they crossed to USA they were said to be in transit. Country of last permanent residence Australia address Armidale Rd Armidale Melbourne (WM FAY Father and WM FAY Father in Law is stated)
At the time of his naturalization in Australia William Marion FAY lists his birth as Buffalo NY 16 Sep 1839. He also mentions his son the solicitor
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.asp?B=33181&I=1&SE=1
Looking at the online newspapers his widow and son mentioned re his estate, you will also find death notice also his sons estate left to his wife, children and relatives in 1944.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y
Cheers Kris :)
-
Eliza Lydia Fay's death announcement (SMH 23 Sep 1925 p14) puts her age at 82 suggesting a birthyear around 1842/3. Her Will is viewable online and refers to her son Franklin, which tends to confirm that she was Franklin's natural mother. http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/component/daPublicBaseContainer?component=daViewItem&entityId=1144761112.
There is an 1843 birth registration for Lydia Eliza Meakes, in Reading Berkshire, which may be her. Her brother Benjamin was born in Reading per the 1891 census.
-
1851
10 West Street, Reading, Berkshire
Robert Moss 46 boot & shoe maker
Hannah Moss 50 midwife
Eliza L Meakes 7 - adopted child - scholar - Reading
HO107/1692/347/20
-
I think this may be Eliza's family in 1841:
Katesgrove Lane, Reading, Berkshire
HO107/34/9/15/23
Thos Meakes 27 clerk
Eliz Meakes 30
Ellen Meakes 6
Bn Meakes 4
Alfd Meakes 2
Kt (or Rt) Meakes 7 months
There's also a Hy Eyall and a G Cozens in that dwelling.
Ellen Meakes appears to have married Edward Jennings in Greenwich in 1855.
-
Hi there. I have been following the conversations which have been a bit confusing as I am trying to locate parents of the William Marion FAY. I have now been able to deduce that he was likely born in Germany and his name may have been Wilhelm Marius FAY. I can not find any evidence of his birth in NY nor of any of his parents in Buffalo Directories from 1840-1860.
According to his death certificate and his wife Elizabeth Lydia Meakes, they were married in Berlin, Wisconsin about 1863-1864. Their son was born in Omro, Wisconsin, not far from Berlin I believe about 1864. His father William, named their property in Victoria, Australia "Omro".
Thank you for all your feedback. I am currently undertaking some assistance in Germany to try and locate his birth on 16 Sep 1839, supposedly from Darmstadt area but he wasn't born in Darmstadt as that has been checked. North of Darmstadt in Gruningen, there are FAY members with Marius in their names which is not common, as according to German researchers, Marion is not a German name and he probably anglicized it when he came to US.
I have had no luck finding his immigration or anything similar around 1849-1852. Many Germans had multiple first and second names and it is unclear which he may have used.
I have no idea what his mothers name was either. In his death certificate it lists his fathers name as William.
Thanks for your help everyone.
-
Hi AlbatrossIV,
In WMF's Australian naturalisation papers (viewable online at http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/ItemDetail.asp?M=0&B=331810 ) there is a notarised statutory declaration saying that he was born in Buffalo, Erie County, New York State. Why would he lie about his birthplace in a legal document?
-
Hi ShaunJ,
Valid point. I believe he and his family left Germany for the US after 1850 as there are no records in 1840 or 1850 in the census with a Fay/Fey in the Buffalo or Erie County, New York area. At least I haven't been able to locate any. It also stated in a book by Houdini, that he immigrated to NY at the age of 11 and came from Darmstadt. He lived with his widowed mother in Buffalo. All the records I have noticed showed he was in NY by 1855 as he attended a seance in a western NY town.
I believe that he believed or wanted others to know he was not German born as his middle name Marion was of course non-German.
It comes down to what evidence there is and if I could locate a Fay family in 1840 or 1850 from Germany (parents) in western NY, then I would say his birth in Buffalo was correct. However, I have yet to find any evidence of that and feel he lived his early life there with his mother and then left home.
I also checked Directories in the Buffalo area for a widowed mother and there was only one, however, she was the wife of a Cyrus Fay who was a school teacher in Buffalo in the 1840's and 1850's and he came from New England.
So I have a researcher in Germany who believes she has found relations of William M. FAY and is now checking out marriages and baptisms, etc.
Thanks again for your help.
Jim
-
Jim, It's been a while since I looked at this but I seem to remember that the first reference I found to Marion as his middle name was around 1877, after he arrived in Australia. Have you found any earlier references?
I did wonder for a while if he'd borrowed it from Trollope's "Marion Fay" but that seems to have been first published in 1881 ( so perhaps Trollope was inspired by WMF!).
-
perhaps Trollope was inspired by WMF
Maybe that's not such a cockeyed idea - apparently Trollope visited Australia twice in the 1870's
-
Hi ShaunJ,
I hadn't thought of that. You're right, the only official documentation was when he entered Australia. However, I do beleive the 1870 census has William M. Fay but I may be mistaken. All the newspaper articles are Prof. Fay generally.
I'll wait to see what a gentleman in Buffalo can find as well as my lady in germany. This puzzle may not be solved as there are too many unknowns.
Thanks for the thought!
-
There are certainly some earlier press references to Mr W M Fay.
-
William Marion Fay was my great-great grandfather. The family tree sheds no light on when he and and Elizabeth Lydia Meakes were married.
-
Hi Bert,
I am doing work for a colleague here in Tasmania, whose great great grandfather was also William M. Fay. based on the death certificates for both William and Elizabeth, they were married about 1862-1864 in Berlin, Wisconsin. This was also indicated I believe on William's naturalisation record.
Happy to connect offline.
Regards,
Jim
-
I have picked up this conversation in my traling;
My family has a connection to the Meakes. My great uncle married Grace Kathleen Meakes, a daughter of Alfred Moore Meakes and Elizabeth Meakes(nee Quinn).
Here is my summation.
Benjamin Meakes was born in Hampshire in about 1837. His death notice of 1902 gives his age as 65.
Melbourne The Argus 21 April 1902-MEAKES.-On the 20th April, at "Omro," Park Street South Melbourne, Benjamin Meakes, late of Paris, brother of Mrs. W M Fay of Kew, and A. M Meakes of Hay NSW., aged 65 years.Paris papers please copy.
He has a brother named Alfred Moore Meakes, born around 1845. His death notice of 1918 referring to his age of 73.
Melbourne The Argus 31 May 1918-MEAKES - On the 29th May, 1918, at his private residence, "Woodlands," No. 11 Marine Parade,St. Kilda, Alfred Moore Meakes (formerly of Hay,N.S.W.), the dearly beloved husband of Elizabeth Meakes, aged 73 years. (By request, no flowers.)
The parents are Thomas Meakes and Elizabeth Moore.
Both arrived in Australia-The Argus (Melbourne, Vic) Tuesday 23 February 1886 reports on the arrival Messageries Maritimes S.S. Yarra in Adelaide. Having left Marseilles on 13 January, the MMSS Yarra was bound for Melbourne and Sydney and beyond. Bound on the passenger list for Melbourne is Alfred Meaks, and J.Benjamin Meakes.
The will of Benjamin Meakes: look up Victorian Public Records Office....Wills and Probates
http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/veo-download?objectId=090fe273802d5d15&format=pdf&docTitle=Image&encodingId=Revision-2-Document-1-Encoding-1-DocumentData
refers to:
His nephew Franklin Ethelbert Fay, his “natural born son” Alfred Moore Meakes, son of Nellie de Bouge of Bournemouth, England. His nieces Maude and Maybelle Meakes, both daughters of his brother Alfred Moore Meakes and Elizabeth Passmore Meakes(nee Craze).
An inquest into the death of Elizabeth is detailed in The Argus of 19 October 1877-page 6, and includes reference to Eliza Quinn, a domestic servant in the service of Mr Meakes since August 1876, and evidence given by Elizabeth Emily Lydia Meakes, 15 years of age.
I have other info on the Meakes .
-
William Fay was listed in the 1858 Directory for Berlin Wisconsin as a blacksmith. Berlin and Omro was also a hotbed for Spiritualism....By 1869 He was listed as William Fahy, blacksmith and buggy manufacturer in the same location.
Hope it Helps
Dan
-
See Marriages column here:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11651317?afterLoad=showCorrections
Shows Fay and Meake's 50th wedding anniversary and names February 5, 1862 as their marriage date at Berlin Wisconsin, by JN Rogers. "William Marion Fay of Buffalo NY to Eliza Lydia Meakes (Lizzie Beckwith) of Berlin Wis.
-
Hi
Am looking into this stream of the Meakes family now. Alfred Moore Meakes from Reading is my great great grandfather. I know it has been a while since the last post.
Looking for help finding the source of this from ShaunJ or anyone else.
Ta
I think this may be Eliza's family in 1841:
Katesgrove Lane, Reading, Berkshire
HO107/34/9/15/23
Thos Meakes 27 clerk
Eliz Meakes 30
Ellen Meakes 6
Bn Meakes 4
Alfd Meakes 2
Kt (or Rt) Meakes 7 months