RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: jeffreyjoecarroll on Wednesday 24 February 10 20:56 GMT (UK)
-
A 'Nash's Flat' appears in my family history but I am unable to locate it on any maps of NSW. It is/was located in the Mudgee district.
Anyone know where it is/was?
Regards,
Jeff
-
A place named Nash's Flat appears in my family history but I am unable to locate it on any maps of NSW. It is/was located in the Mudgee district.
Anyone know where is is/was?
Regards,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I can't remember that up around Mudgee way the place called Nash Flat, Who long ago was that to be Jeff.
-
It's was the 1850's - 1870's. Moses & Celia [nee OLIVER] LAW came out from England in the mid 50's with their daughter and her family. They settled at Nash's Flat where Moses farmed. Moses died in Mudgee in 1876 and was buried in the local CofE cemetery.
I see it mentioned in other family histories when I google it.
Regards,
Jeff
-
Hi
Maybe if you email http://www.mudgeemuseum.com/historical_society.htm they might be able to help
Michelle
-
Thanks Michelle,
Have already sent an email query to them, also Mudgee Tourist Info Centre & Mudgee District Local History Society.
Jeff
-
Its odd that it does not show up on the google maps. the odd queensland names do, still after all these years ;-) maybe thats because queenslanders love their history....
/snicker
-
Or is it that NSW has been known to kick out the old and put in the new?
I have faith that someone on Rootschat will know........that's why I came here, it's rare for a mystery not to be resolved in some way!!
Regards,
Jeff
-
Hi there,
NSW Lands Dept old parish maps are online,
http://www.lands.nsw.gov.au/survey_maps/maps_and_imagery/parish_maps ... its not as user friendly as it could be, but perhaps zoom in/out and pan through several of the Mudgee maps perhaps that may help. Often those old maps have occupant details, not just boundary and acreage info. Also, the date displayed against each map is often the date the lands office "de-commissioned" the map, as opposed to the date the draftsman first drew the map... ;D there's old maps on that site for just about all of NSW, and many of the township maps were originally drawn in 19thC at good scales for checking... ;) municipal rates etc.
Also NSW Geographical Board may have answers to Nash Flat question ...
Cheers,
JM
-
Not much help, but only one find in old newspapers - Sydney Morning Herald 1862 Land Sales;
"Suburban Lots - County of Wellington, Parish of Mudgee. 7 acres at Nashs Flat, near Mudgee, adjoining south boundary of Oliver's portions."
Heading of "Suburban Lots" is a bit strange.............
Les
-
Just found another 2 Land Sales for Nash's Flat near Mudgee in SMH 1858 and 1860. Nothing to indicate exactly where it was except "near Mudgee".
Les
-
Thanks for your assistance so far everybody.
Oh those maps JM!!!! My poor eyes are already out of focus. They really need a scrolling, then enlargement feature - would be much easier to navigate through the maps. The facility & the intent are good though.
I'll keep trying the maps, but have emailed the GNB in hopes they can assist.
Best,
Jeff
-
Hi Jeff,
Err.... that's why I didn't go looking for you ;D but try adjusting the 25% and the size options in the dialogue box and then click on say any of the corners in the absence of that scroll option... also sometimes start with the smallest % and click the middle of the map as it seems to automatically centre around that selected spot... But I do agree, its not the user friendly facility that I would expect...
Les' clue re "Oliver's portion" may help too... Mudgee was huge township in that era, and petitioned for its own municipal status. I'll try to find info about the signatures on the petitions.
Back shortly, and will modify this post with results.
Edit to add In 1859, Edw OLIVER of Short St Mudgee signed petition supporting the creation of the Municipality (NSW Gaz Fri 19 Aug 1859, page 1852) if that's same Oliver, then perhaps Nash's Flat would be not far off to north of Mudgee perhaps around the FLAT area near the current cemetery, just over the bridge near the Cudgegong River .. (thinking of you on the parish maps site) ... Err... I did NOT find any NASH as a signatory to that petition (nor any other names that I recognised ;) ;) )
Cheers, JM
-
Have found another way around the maps using the PIXEL viewer - much easier!! You can section off small portions, enlarge them and scroll at will. I have a few names that come up in google as well as Les's hint of Olivers Portion. Fingers crossed.
Just a quick update to say that I have come across a W. Nash as purchaser (still to confirm a date of purchase) of several portions listed as N.E. - (not sure if this is where the current cemetery is though JM). I'm still trying to locate those portion numbers 138A & 139A on the map - shall update when I've nailed them. There are a few Nash's listed on BDM's in the Mudgee region for the time, no W. Nash though. Thanks again to everyone for their interest & assistance.
Best,
Jeff
-
Mudgee Cemetery
There's one on the main road out of Mudgee NORTH (or NNE ISH) on Ulan-Cassillis Road ... just on the right past Mount Pleasant lane (coming out of Mudgee that is) before the Aerodrome. Ulan Road intersects with Short St in Mudgee, on the township side of the river...
I'll try again to find NASH on my Mudgee records
Cheers, JM
-
NASH on 1870 Mudgee Roll !
back shortly
EDIT 1
Nash, David residence at Mullamuddy
Nash, Martin, freehold at Redbank
Edit 2 LAW
Law, Moses, household, Market Square (which I think is in town, near Short St, but perhaps google map would know)
Edit 3 OLIVER This is interesting, as I am sure that the address is off the Ulan Road, near one of the Stein wineries where they make "Serendipty" even today ;D
Oliver, Thomas, residence Grattai
OLIVER, WILLIAM, FREEHOLD AT PIPECLAY, could be (from memory about 6 miles out of Mudgee, and of course north east of the bridge near Short St in town.
Cheers, JM
JM
-
hi
1878 Electoral roll for the district of Mudgee lists these NASH's
John
Martin (as above per JM at Redbank)
Lewis
George
John
Henry
Richard
No idea if these are of interest.I can put up their residences if so .
Sue
-
Hi there,
I just googled "Nash's Flat" and read
".......Clara Ward was born Clara Blackert at Nash's Flat near Mudgee in 1883.........."
So, I've checked the 1903 roll for the seat of Robertson, polling place Mudgee, and there she is listed,
Clara Blackert, F, Nash's Flat dom duties,
Her birth is registered and indexed for district of Mudgee 23784/1883 showing parents as John Henry and Louisa G .
So that means that as early as 1860's and at least forward to 1903, there was a locality known as Nash's Flat ;) but exactly where it was/is ... we don't know yet...
I'll have a look at random pages from early rolls to see if other surnames show up against "Nash's Flat" ;D (starting with the 1870 roll)
Cheers, JM.
-
Yep, finding some in 1870 with Nash's Flat... (for Jeff's searching on those parish maps with occupiers names ;D)
EDIT 1
Benjamin BULLOCK, residence NF; William BURGESS, freehold NF, John BURGESS, residence NF
EDIT 2
George Cole (2 on roll) freehold NF; TOWNSEND Robert (2 on roll) 1 with residence NF, the other freehold NF
JM
-
1878/9 Nash's Flat
SCIFILIT, John; residence at NF
MELVILLE, William; residence at Redbank
MELVILLE, William, residence at NF
Somewhere among those "NF" names there should be a way to find perhaps the Land Grants or the Conditional Purchases
Fingers crossed... for Jeff :)
Cheers, JM
-
Nash’s Flat ;D
Guesstimate on possible location...
Very late err very very early here, but ... my M i L (years and years older than me, thus reads herself to sleep, and former resident of Mudgee,) has just phoned about Nash’s Flat ... she thinks it is the flood proned land at end of Cox & Court Streets, Mudgee, nearest cross St, being SHORT St. (Cox St being the clue, re early settlers ... William Cox).
As my OH and I need to be “on the road” heading to M i L’s and further over the next few days, here’s the newspaper clues:
SMH Saturday 27 March 1858
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13008077
Sale of acreage at Nash’s Flat, adjoining the township of Mudgee. (as reported from a Mudgee paper ;) )
SMH Saturday 20 October 1860
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13047510
6 suburban lots (5 to approx 7 acres) near Nash’s Flat and near O’Brien’s and Kerney’s portions # O-III to O-VIII
See Govt Gazette No. 177
SMH Saturday 26 July 1884 (Sellers CROSSING & COX !!, HENCE the Guesstimate, knowing one of those Mudgee maps online carries date of 1884)
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13571682
MANY lots including
TOWN ALLOTMENTS and a separate heading SUBURBAN
7 acres at Nash’s Flat
Also, check out this following link (which could have local history for Mudgee ..I have not checked it, only just knew about it from phone call... http://www.mudgeehistory.com.au/
Cheers, JM (and OH and M i L)
-
Again, thanks to all (including OH & MiL) for your interest, information & hints. The family history frustrations do not seem so bad sometimes when you get as much interest & assistance from the Rootschat ‘family’.
I have scoured the parish/county/town survey maps and have found Nash's portions 138A & 139A. They are south of the town, nearish to Waterworks Gully and what is now Sawpit Road. The other NASH properties are spread all over the parish. I've had no luck finding any reference to Nash's Flat or the name Moses LAW however.
Of the names you suggested as clues JM, I've only located SCIFILIT/SCIFLEET listed on the maps - not NE of the town though. COX family members owned LARGE areas all around the region – one large parcel, WNW of the town does adjoin portion 62 which seems to have been purchased by an O’BRIEN. The newspaper articles are great and I wonder if Moses may have been involved in one of the earlier purchases (he had died by the 1884 sale). Placing him is Short St in 1870 is a surprise…....I would have thought he would have already been farming by this stage (15 years in the area) - there is the possibility that this was the farm or they had 2 properties. Can't locate a Market SQUARE, however Market STREET is close by Short St (though NW of the town). Maybe I should put aside the NE references for the moment.
Sue (sparrett), as mentioned above, the Nash’s seem to have had land spread out all over the place so hold off on doing more work in that direction.
mudgeehistory.com.au has been unable to assist but have given me the details of a local who may know. I’m now awaiting an email reply. Stay tuned.
EDIT - A possibly related detail has been staring me in the face and I didn't see it. A family member - reading these posts - has pointed out that Moses' wife Celia (nee OLIVER) had a nephew called William OLIVER. If it is the same person as the one that comes up in the above posts and he was in residence prior to 1855, then it may explain a family mystery as to why the family went to Mudgee and not to Maitland where other family members have settled.
My best wishes to you all.
Jeff
-
That's good OLIVER news Jeff,
Have you considered looking for Blackert ... not just on the maps, perhaps Clara's parents were early settlers ... perhaps descendants still in the Mudgee district.
" Scifleet"
On 1903 roll ... several at Mudgee, mostly with address of Lewis St, but one at Horatio St...
"Blackert"
Of course Clara was at NF, and from NSW BDM for Clara's birth, I'm confident that in 1903 Clara's mum was at Marshfield, Mudgee.. (Clara's dad's address just shows as Mudgee)
Umm.... Marshfield .... Nash's Flat ...
Re "Sawpit Rd" & "Waterworks Gully" ... that's out near "Spring Flat" ... quite the opposite direction from William Oliver at Pipeclay !
Fingers crossed
Cheers, JM
-
Have you considered looking for Blackert ... not just on the maps, perhaps Clara's parents were early settlers ... perhaps descendants still in the Mudgee district.
There is still some Blackert at Gulgong from Mudgee there he died in 2009 so there should be some descendants there.
-
Hi there, NASH'S FLAT ...
Back to the Parish Maps .... on the Second Sheet (14761201, c1896), there's lots of details about parish numbers, purchasers etc. and notes to draftsmen and others using those plans when they were working drawings in the Surveyor Gen's Sydney office. I expect this particular drawing/plan/map would have been based on earlier drawings, perhaps back into the 1860's.....
Purchasers names include M Nash, (yes, there's full administrative particulars/details (1518, 158, 203 1527)for his lot 3 acres, 138A and his 4 acres 139A. He also purchased a tad over 2 acres as noted on that drawing (10W 28.1527R). There's also purchasers: H W Oliver, Catherine Scifleet etc.
Also, on google map .... Marshfield Road, Glen Ayr (near Mudgee) would be nearer the Waterworks and Sawpit etc.
Also, online newspapers, the NLA are commencing to digitise on their main site, the Maitland Mercury .... not yet finalised the 1860's but pre-alert for another sighting of "Nash's Flat" ...
The Maitland Mercury... Thursday 10 April 1862, page 3. News 3091 words
... bite of a Snake.-LoBt week, as the daughter of Mr. 0. Clifton, Nash's Flat, was sitting at needle ... a.m. It could be a mishmash of several articles, so I have not followed up for CLIFTON .... but it does seem to show that people were settled at Nash's Flat ...
Cheers, JM (with help from M i L, yet again in amazement of the Internet ! ... and the amount of detail on those parish maps !)
-
Thanks Robert & JM!! I had to shy off over the weekend and spend some time with living family members.......shall resume the hunt this week with the hints you suggest.
As mentioned before, I did see the SCHIFLEET name on another of the maps - promising. Will also look at those newspapers - The name CLIFTON jumps at me, as Moses & Celia's daughter Mary married (2nd marriage) a Charles CLIFTON in Mudgee in 1858 (to my knowledge, he had no children prior to the marriage and they didn't have any). He was a farmer, dying at Nash's Flat in 1863 - heart disease.
Again, thank you so much. There are so many questions with this family....I thought the location of Nash's Flat would be an easy one.
Best regards,
Jeff
-
Hi there,
Online at NSW State Records,
Deceased Estate files indexed for two with surname Scifleet, both from Mudgee, alas both dated 1904, index doesn't provide details ... but perhaps the website has other indexes on Jeff's family forebears, fingers crossed ;) as there is index for land grants to a William OLIVER from as early as 1835 .... (alas no mention of which district in NSW)
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/keyname_search.asp
Cheers, JM
-
A family member seems to have had some luck finding Nash's Flat. A 5 year old post on another site lists its whereabouts, calling it NASH FLAT.
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/aus-nsw-pilliga/2005-02/1109285063
I've searched all the Parish maps but this area is devoid for the most part of the names of purchasers/owners, it only has lot numbers. The corresponding information available doesn't list the LAW name however. I'll certainly investigate further and shall post any findings (shall leave the post open for present). A SCIFLEET is close by JM and it looks like you may have been right about the lcoation.
As is usual in searching the family history, one query or answer poses another question and I will now also follow up on William OLIVER as I feel sure he is the link to bringing the Hampton & Law [nee Oliver] family to the Mudgee district. This post is closely related to another I have about the Hampton's in Mudgee - another elusive query. I'm looking forward to actually going to Mudgee and seeing if I can get any answers at the scene.
Thank you one and all for all your suggestions and assistance.
Jeff