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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: liscoole on Tuesday 23 February 10 11:30 GMT (UK)

Title: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: liscoole on Tuesday 23 February 10 11:30 GMT (UK)
Today I called the Shankill Graveyard to enquire whether a deceased ancestor was buried there.

I got the reply from a very nice young lady that " Oh all the burial records for there were burned. We have a book you have to come in and check, because all we have left is the gravestone inscriptions".

Anyone else had great difficulty in trying to ascertain if a relation was buried there?

Lis
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: scotmum on Tuesday 23 February 10 13:10 GMT (UK)
Don't have an answer to your question, but do have a copy of the Gravestone Inscriptions for Shankill Graveyard. Let me know name, etc and I'll take a peep.



Update:

Thanks for giving me the name in chat.......sorry there was nothing in the book for him.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 23 February 10 19:55 GMT (UK)
If you want to post the details you know there are some other sources I could check for you.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: liscoole on Tuesday 23 February 10 20:49 GMT (UK)
and thank you for checking Scotmum. Much appreciated.

Aghadowey, the name is William John Dempster date of death 22nd March 1935.

Also if you wouldnt mind checking to see if you can find an Arthur Magee in your records, date of death unknown.

Many thanks
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 23 February 10 21:08 GMT (UK)
Didn't realise date was so recent. Gravestone Incriptions (Belfast, volume 1) has Shankill Graveyard. Looking through Introduction I didn't notice anything about records destroyed but it did say burials in private plots until 1934. In 1959 there was a survey done to copy all pre-1870 stones.
There is a Dempster headstone for a Henry (age 76), wife Mary (d.1873) and daughter Mary (d.1877).

It might be the newspaper obituary (if any) would mention place of burial for William John Dempster. Finding Arthur Magee will be more difficult without a date- If early 1900s or earlier PRONI might have something in Will Extracts.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: liscoole on Thursday 25 February 10 15:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Aghadowey

Sorry- only just saw your post- for some reason i didnt get an email notification!

Anyway, that is interesting what you say about "private burials until 1934". Did they close the cemetery to new burials in 1934? If so, then my William John must be buried elsewhere- though the options are narrowing greatly as he lived in the Shankill area of Belfast and apparently he isnt in the City Cemetery either!

Re Arthur Magee, I think he died round about 1890-1897, but that is a guess, there is nothing on PRONI wills, nor a death registration on familysearch pilot site... it must have been before 1911 as he does not appear to be on the 1911 census. I am starting to think he disappeared into thin air...

many thanks for your help
Lis
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: DixieDee on Thursday 25 February 10 20:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Liscoole.
My grandmother's uncle was buried in the family plot December 1936.

Dixie
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Clannbreasail on Sunday 14 March 10 18:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Scotmum. I was interested to see that you have graveyard inscriptions for Shankill cemetery. Could you possibly look for an ancestor of mine, Robert McCollum, buried around 1870. I would also be interested to know of other McCollums around that time if that is not too cheeky. Sometimes this family spelt their name McCallum. Any help greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 14 March 10 18:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Scotmum. I was interested to see that you have graveyard inscriptions for Shankill cemetery. Could you possibly look for an ancestor of mine, Robert McCollum, buried around 1870. I would also be interested to know of other McCollums around that time if that is not too cheeky. Sometimes this family spelt their name McCallum. Any help greatly appreciated.

None listed in Gravestone Inscriptions (Belfast, vol.1) which covers Shankill- perhaps there was no headstone.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Clannbreasail on Sunday 14 March 10 19:45 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for that prompt reply. I appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: 12405 on Saturday 10 July 10 12:42 BST (UK)
Hi - I am trying to gather further information on my DEMPSTER line.  My line begins with Hugh DEMPSTER (b. ?, d. ca. 1842) and Jane McCUNE (both born in, I believe, County Down).  They had at least 2 children:  Samuel (who married Mary SHAW November 09, 1855, Tullylish, Banbridge, Down, Ireland) and James (b. October 1828, Belfast, County Down, Ireland; m. Mary McKay, born in Antrim, on July 27, 1857 at Parish of Kilconriola, Ballymena, Antrim, Ireland).

Samuel's son, William John DEMPSTER (b. ca. January 1862 in Antrim, d. April 1938 in Toronto, CANADA) came to Canada when he was about 22.  James DEMPSTER and his family arrived in Canada ca. 1874.  James' daughter Isabella DEMPSTER went on to marry William John (they were cousins).

Would be interesting in hearing if your DEMPSTERs might be connected somehow.  Thanks
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Miracle on Thursday 16 September 10 22:36 BST (UK)
Re the above.  There is more than one Shankill Graveyard.
There is another one with the same name in Lurgan, Co. Armagh.
Try Shankill Graveyard or Shankill, Lurgan, Co. Armagh.
Good Luck with your search.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Ken Austin on Saturday 02 October 10 08:20 BST (UK)
Is there any connection between the Shankill Graveyard in Shankill Street Lurgan and the one in Belfast?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Miracle on Saturday 02 October 10 12:40 BST (UK)
Ken: There is no connection between the 2 Shankills other than the name. Shankill is the name of a Parish.
Also found in Dublin and Co. Kilkenny.
There are no official records of Belfast Shankill cemetery.
If I learn anything of interest I'll forward it to you.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Calliope on Saturday 01 January 11 16:58 GMT (UK)
A number of my ancestors were buried in the Shankill Graveyard, Belfast from the late 1800s till about 1943.
I would be grateful for any information.
James Burch (3 of same name), Jane Burch,(1884) Mary Burch (1928), Thomas Burch, Joseph Burch, Admiral Burch, Catherine Kelly, James Wilson.

I plan to visit this year.   Is there anyone I can contact in advance? :)

Thank you

Maureen
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 01 January 11 17:47 GMT (UK)
James Burch 1886, Joseph Burch 1897, Margaret Jane Burch 1900, Alexander Burch 1963.
www.ancestryireland.com/database.php?filename=db_QUIS_advanced2
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Butlerclan on Friday 04 February 11 16:33 GMT (UK)
Hello everyone who is interested in the burial ground on the Shankill Road, Belfast.    This is the one connected to St Matthew's church I take it?

The Minister of the Church holds the burial registers covering many years.   I have looked through some myself.   You have to visit him of course, and he will bring the books to you.

It is a few years since I did this, so I can't help with his name at present, but the Manse is in Ballygomartin Road, near Woodvale Park, if this helps.

Butlerclan
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: StevenGal on Sunday 03 April 11 20:09 BST (UK)
yes that's true but not sure when
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: StevenGal on Sunday 03 April 11 21:05 BST (UK)
What records are held then? WOW
 :o
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 03 April 11 22:19 BST (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat, StevenGal. Are you looking for any information in particular?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: StevenGal on Sunday 03 April 11 22:55 BST (UK)
Hi I would have a few to check but the first would be Miss Anne Marshall of Belfast who died 04 Oct 1860. Is your source the book of headstones?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: StevenGal on Sunday 03 April 11 22:59 BST (UK)
I also have a photo somewhere of the cemetery prior to it's clearance in 1958.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: crowlie on Thursday 07 April 11 18:57 BST (UK)
Hi,
I have been looking for the death and burial of my Grandad, Robert Ferris, born 1880 and I think died in Belfast in the early 30s.
Would be very grateful if some one could look up the Shankill list.
            bob
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Thursday 07 April 11 19:10 BST (UK)
Hi,
I have been looking for the death and burial of my Grandad, Robert Ferris, born 1880 and I think died in Belfast in the early 30s.
Would be very grateful if some one could look up the Shankill list.
            bob
Nothing listed.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: crowlie on Thursday 07 April 11 22:05 BST (UK)
Hi,
  Thanks aghadowey,was clutching at straws.
   bob
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 08 April 11 18:39 BST (UK)
Are you sure he was buried there? if not, might be worth checking new website for other Belfast burials (City, Cemetery, Dundonald & Roselawn)-
http://www.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialrecords/
Note: Roselawn records start 1954 so too recent.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: crowlie on Friday 08 April 11 20:07 BST (UK)
Hi aghadowey,
I don't know where he was buried or even when he died, I've checked the belfast burial search sites with no luck.
Thanks again for your help,
       bob
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: StevenGal on Tuesday 23 August 11 22:45 BST (UK)
The only sources that I know of for information on the Shankill cemetery are as follows

PRONI hold a book on the headstones logged in the late 50s when the cemetery was tidied up and handed over to Belfast City council.

The Belfast Telegraph actual internment notices but this would involve a manual trawl at the newspaper library in Belfast.

The Ulster historical foundation have published books on headstones this information should in theory be the same as the PRONI document.

St Matthews church records are for persons belonging to that church and it should not be taken as an entire burial register  for The Shankill Cemetery. Many people were buried there but did not belong to the church.

The registers were (I'm told) destroyed in a fire.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: StevenGal on Tuesday 23 August 11 22:47 BST (UK)
I wonder would anyone have a set of  grave papers for the Shankill cemetery that would be interesting....
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: charles w on Friday 23 March 12 20:24 GMT (UK)
Shankill comes from the Irish and it means old church. 
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: martin roe on Friday 27 April 12 16:22 BST (UK)
HI Im doing a little research for a friend   would there be any Ross inscriptions in the book i`m looking for a hamilton
any help greatly received
 
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: RTB on Monday 23 July 12 14:34 BST (UK)
Hi Aghadowey & List

Somewhat belated that I have seen this posting.

I contacted City Cemetery’s today, and I have been advised, that my 2 x Great grandfather may have been buried in the Shankill Cemetery. and as I have discovered the records were burnt. Have been looking for this fella for a long time now, I discovered his death on IGI, I have looked many times, with different spellings. But this time I feel sure I have found him, age is spot on.  So, if I am not too late may I take up your offer for a look at the cemetery book.

The name is William McCaughan, though on the death records it is spelt
Wm M’Gaughan. Died the Oct-Dec 1905   Ref 1/286, his address should be 36 Mount Street.

Thank you for your help

Richard
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: jimchelsea on Monday 23 July 12 17:04 BST (UK)
Hi
Headstone inscriptions from Shankill Graveyard 1830-1930 can be searched on the link below.
jim

http://irishgenealogy.net/cp/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2323
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: maia1901 on Thursday 04 June 15 14:12 BST (UK)
Looking for William Charles Mullett, died 1948 in Purdysburn.  Logged as Shanklin burial.  Does anyone have any grave info?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 06 June 15 10:31 BST (UK)
Looking for William Charles Mullett, died 1948 in Purdysburn.  Logged as Shanklin burial.  Does anyone have any grave info?

He's actually buried at Belfast City Cemetery- Glenalina Extension (B2 412)
William Mullett, 11 Dargle St., Last place of residence- Belfast Mental Hospital, age 80, died 9 Dec.1948, buried 11 Dec.1948
https://ssl.belfastcity.gov.uk/burialsearch/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=7115.4180

Mullett William Charles Birkin of 11 Dargle Street Belfast retired commercial traveller died 9 December 1948 at Purdysburn Villa Colony Purdysburn county Down Probate Belfast 7 April to Dora Harriett Mullett the widow. Effects £4814 12s. 8d. (www.proni.gov.uk)
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: maia1901 on Saturday 06 June 15 19:19 BST (UK)
Thank you so very very much.  That's brilliant.  I hope to be able to visit in the autumn and look for the grave.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 06 June 15 19:36 BST (UK)
If you click on the link for the entry I posted, then click on the grave number it will show you the names of others buried in the same plot. You can then find more details about them.

Do you need more details on the Mullett family or did you just need the cemetery information?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Vita Brevis on Friday 04 October 19 14:20 BST (UK)
Hoping still possible to request lookups for this cemetery.  I'm searching for a William & Mary Montgomery.  Unfortunately I have no dates but they may have been sometime between 1874 - 1915 possible age range 50-80yrs.

Any help appreciated.  VB
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 20 October 19 18:48 BST (UK)
Hoping still possible to request lookups for this cemetery.  I'm searching for a William & Mary Montgomery.  Unfortunately I have no dates but they may have been sometime between 1874 - 1915 possible age range 50-80yrs.
Any help appreciated.  VB
Probably no replies because not enough information in your post.
You should be able to find the dates of death. 1901 & 1911 census both online. Death registrations up to 1921 for N.I. counties on Irish Genealogy site.
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Vita Brevis on Tuesday 22 October 19 21:07 BST (UK)
Nope, absolutely no information about this couple other than they were named on a daughter church marriage record, the day before she converted to RC.  Mothers maiden name given a McKeown.  No marriage found, no obvious siblings to the daughter, no death that makes anything clear & same for census, they could have been dead by then.  All I know is that they lived in Belfast around 1874.  Was hoping, they may appear in a cemetery together and was perhaps worthchecking Shankhill.  It's been a brick wall for over 15 years.  Thanks. 
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 22 October 19 22:16 BST (UK)
Nope, absolutely no information about this couple other than they were named on a daughter church marriage record, the day before she converted to RC.  Mothers maiden name given a McKeown.  No marriage found, no obvious siblings to the daughter, no death that makes anything clear & same for census, they could have been dead by then.  All I know is that they lived in Belfast around 1874.  Was hoping, they may appear in a cemetery together and was perhaps worthchecking Shankhill.  It's been a brick wall for over 15 years.  Thanks. 
You actually do know more than you'd posted previously- possible maiden name, etc.
What are the details from the daughter's 1874 marriage- there should be a civil record which might give an address, father's occupation, etc.
Approx. when was the daughter born? do census records (if available) give birthplace as Belfast or where?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Vita Brevis on Saturday 26 October 19 17:36 BST (UK)
Sorry for delayed reply.

Daughters marriage not relevant for two reasons
a)   Only baptism record is day before her marriage (convert) & searches only produce that date
b)   NO civil registration record of above marriage – Register “LOST” only church record                    available & no details of either father’s occupation

No marriage record found for her parents using identities given on daughter church marriage record
Unable to identify any other possible births for the parents as no marriage identified (Not Mary McKeown & Robert Montgomery 1853)
Believe parents also lived in Belfast alive at time of her marriage, insufficient information to identify on BSD
Two census records available for daughter, one says Belfast, second Antrim

So left trying to identify possible parents deaths in/around Belfast after daughter’s marriage as these would definitely be registered, or their burials which I am hoping would be together.   I suspect dates to be somewhere between 1874 & 1901–1911  (1915 would be pushing it)
I suspect the family were Presbyterian before daughter converted.

All above info identified 15years ago and cannot seem to find a way to break down this brick wall.  Any help is welcome.  Thanks VB

Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Saturday 26 October 19 20:18 BST (UK)
The daughter's marriage is relevant even if you haven't found a civil record.

It wasn't uncommon for bride/groom to be baptised in Catholic faith just before mixed marriage where the spouse is Catholic. Daughter may have been baptised in Presbyterian Church (or other Protestant church) as an infant or small child. Unfortunately not all church records survive and of those that do not are all online.

You still haven't given any indication as far as I can see of when daughter might have been born or even her name.

"named on a daughter church marriage record, the day before she converted to RC.  Mothers maiden name given a McKeown." and now "no marriage identified (Not Mary McKeown & Robert Montgomery 1853)."
Why have you eliminated the above marriage? is it merely because husband is Robert & not William as in marriage record? Since the priest probably didn't know the Montgomery family well William might be incorrect.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Vita Brevis on Sunday 27 October 19 00:43 BST (UK)
[quote
The daughter's marriage is relevant even if you haven't found a civil record.

Daughter may have been baptised in Presbyterian Church (or other Protestant church) as an infant or small child. Unfortunately not all church records survive and of those that do not are all online.[/quote]

I'm more than well aware of this & it is exactly why her marriage isn't relevant ... Nothing about her or her claimed family prior to her marriage is online. 

Of course I haven't eliminated the marriage of Robert & Mary.  However, nothing that I have found relating to this marriage indicates any connection to the person I am looking for.  Equally, I have a strong suscipion that the information provided by the bride at her baptism & marriage could be false and not just that her father may not be William, but also that her mother may not be Mary.  As for Mary McKeown, the only marriage I can find ... online to a Montgomery, is a Robert ... it establishes nothing since there are many Presbyterian records unavailable online, let alone hundreds of possible church doors to bang on to find the right people. 

It's hard enough trying to eliminate who she claimed were her parents never mind trying to prove that she was the daughter of others.  For goodness sake, she may not even have been born the name she claims to be.  I've had a hard enough time trying to cut through all this cloak & dagger stuff & untill I can eliminate her claimed parents & why, finding any other possibilities is futile.

After everything I have looked at, finding a death/burial record for two married people with the identities of those she has given doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable.  These details as claimed, must be more likely to find, if they existed, as they are post pre registration.  So why can't I find them?  Could it be for the same reason I cannot find four other relatives who's deaths were post registration, or perhaps they were all lies too?  Who knows, but somehow, I have to check out all the available online material first.  I don't think clouding other researchers minds with half baked possibilites helps.

So, that leaves eliminating a marriage of William & Mary, which would be terrific if one could be found and the same could be said for their burials.  I'm not trying to make information fit the scenario, I'm trying to establish if any of the info is factual. 

Given all the above, if this was one of your family members, given only the info transcribed on the church baptism & marriage records available online, what would you do differently? 

I'm not being sarcastic.  If you really want to help, then finding a burial for this couple would be my best start. after that, I'll be happy to give you the details I started with.

In the meantime, your interest is much appreciated and thank you.  VB
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: majm on Sunday 27 October 19 03:59 GMT (UK)
[quote
The daughter's marriage is relevant even if you haven't found a civil record.

Daughter may have been baptised in Presbyterian Church (or other Protestant church) as an infant or small child. Unfortunately not all church records survive and of those that do not are all online.

I'm more than well aware of this & it is exactly why her marriage isn't relevant ... Nothing about her or her claimed family prior to her marriage is online. 

Of course I haven't eliminated the marriage of Robert & Mary.  However, nothing that I have found relating to this marriage indicates any connection to the person I am looking for.  Equally, I have a strong suscipion that the information provided by the bride at her baptism & marriage could be false and not just that her father may not be William, but also that her mother may not be Mary.  As for Mary McKeown, the only marriage I can find ... online to a Montgomery, is a Robert ... it establishes nothing since there are many Presbyterian records unavailable online, let alone hundreds of possible church doors to bang on to find the right people. 

It's hard enough trying to eliminate who she claimed were her parents never mind trying to prove that she was the daughter of others.  For goodness sake, she may not even have been born the name she claims to be.  I've had a hard enough time trying to cut through all this cloak & dagger stuff & untill I can eliminate her claimed parents & why, finding any other possibilities is futile.

After everything I have looked at, finding a death/burial record for two married people with the identities of those she has given doesn't seem to me to be unreasonable.  These details as claimed, must be more likely to find, if they existed, as they are post pre registration.  So why can't I find them?  Could it be for the same reason I cannot find four other relatives who's deaths were post registration, or perhaps they were all lies too?  Who knows, but somehow, I have to check out all the available online material first.  I don't think clouding other researchers minds with half baked possibilites helps.

So, that leaves eliminating a marriage of William & Mary, which would be terrific if one could be found and the same could be said for their burials.  I'm not trying to make information fit the scenario, I'm trying to establish if any of the info is factual. 

Given all the above, if this was one of your family members, given only the info transcribed on the church baptism & marriage records available online, what would you do differently? 

I'm not being sarcastic.  If you really want to help, then finding a burial for this couple would be my best start. after that, I'll be happy to give you the details I started with.

In the meantime, your interest is much appreciated and thank you.  VB
[/quote]

Hi,

I am in NSW Australia,  and have a long history of searching out my NSW families, many of them came out from Ireland in the 1800s.  My interest in family history predates online searches by decades.... but the concept of searching, finding, considering, examining, validating, and learning about our ancestors is the same.  It is a shared task.  So may I mention that sometimes I resolved long standing issues by allowing fresh eyes to minutely inspect and reconcile each piece of information provided on every document in front of me.   

Perhaps if you were to type up your own transcription of the marriage record,  and share it on RChat,  then the people reading this thread may find the spare moments in their lives to help you with this long standing obstacle.

JM
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Elwyn Soutter on Sunday 27 October 19 08:59 GMT (UK)
I am struggling with some of this. We are apparently looking for William & Mary Montgomery who may have died in Belfast between 1874 and 1915 and are believed to be buried in Shankill graveyard. The information about their identify has come from their daughter’s 1874 marriage.

“All I know is that they lived in Belfast around 1874.”  How do you know that? Their daughter was evidently in Belfast then but how do you know her parents were a) alive and b) in Belfast? The daughter was evidently born before the start of statutory registration. Perhaps her parents had both died pre 1864 too?

In the 1800s hundred of thousands of young women came to Belfast from rural parts of Ulster to work in the mills. Their parents often remained behind.  How do you know this woman’s were in Belfast? Do you have additional information you haven’t shared with us or is this just guesswork?
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 27 October 19 09:24 GMT (UK)
I'm struggling also   :-\ You've gone from looking for William Montgomery & wife Mary McKeown parents of an unknown daughter who married in Belfast in 1874 to "Equally, I have a strong suscipion that the information provided by the bride at her baptism & marriage could be false and not just that her father may not be William, but also that her mother may not be Mary."

When we ask questions there are good reasons for this. If we had the daughter's details to establish her age then we might have a better idea of when her parents might have been born. If daughter was married in Belfast there's a chance that siblings might also have done so even if family might, or might not, have always lived in Belfast.

However, as Elwyn says, parents could have died before civil registration of deaths, may have lived outside Belfast, etc.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: majm on Sunday 27 October 19 09:27 GMT (UK)
 :)

I had considered that the marriage was 1915,, and that it was the baptism document  of the bride on converting to Roman Catholicism led our OP to deducing the bride was born Belfast in 1874....  I could well have mis-read...  :)


Perhaps VB has other earlier threads, afterall she mentions searching for 15 years...


JM



Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 27 October 19 09:30 GMT (UK)
:)
I had considered that the marriage was 1915,, and that it was the baptism document  of the bride on converting to Roman Catholicism led our OP to deducing the bride was born Belfast in 1874....  I could well have mis-read...  :)
Perhaps VB has other earlier threads, afterall she mentions searching for 15 years...
JM

The mystery daughter's marriage was in 1874. The 1874-1915 range is for death of parents as OP seems to be assuming both alive in 1874. OP seems also to assume parents possibly born c1824-c1835 but since we don't have enough detail it's not clear why.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Vita Brevis on Sunday 03 November 19 00:39 GMT (UK)
Elwyn

I am struggling with some of this. We are apparently looking for William & Mary Montgomery who may have died in Belfast between 1874 and 1915 and are believed to be buried in Shankill graveyard. The information about their identify has come from their daughter’s 1874 marriage.

Perhaps her parents had both died pre 1864 too
?


I didn’t say they were “believed” to be buried in Shankill graveyard.  I said “Unfortunately I have no dates but they may have been sometime between 1874 - 1915 possible age range 50-80yrs”

The family believe they were still alive post the daughter’s marriage in 1874

Aghadowey

You've gone from looking for William Montgomery & wife Mary McKeown parents of an unknown daughter who married in Belfast in 1874


The daughter isn’t unknown.  I simply tried to answer your questions.  I haven’t “gone” from looking for William & wife Mary Montgomery (McKeown).  I  asked for a look up for their burials in the graveyard. 

Is anyone able to tell me if there are a couple by these names buried there together or connected  to Belfast during that time frame?

Appreciate everyone’s imput incuding majm, thank you.  VB 
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Elwyn Soutter on Sunday 03 November 19 01:49 GMT (UK)
The vagueness makes it hard to help resolve your query.  But the underlying fact is that there are no comprehensive burial records for Shankill cemetery so unless the couple had a gravestone which has been transcribed, it’s very hard to establish if they are buried there. It’s also worth pointing out that William & Mary Montgomery are very common names. There could well have been more than one couple with those names around Belfast at that time. There are 70 William Montgomery deaths in Belfast in the years 1874 - 1915. 55 Marys for the same period.

If you get a date of death you could then search the Belfast Newsletter for a funeral notice, which would often say where someone was to be buried. (Tradition was to bury within 3 days of death so it’s normally a question of checking the editions for 2 days after the death). If you have a subscription, they are on Ancestry.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: aghadowey on Sunday 03 November 19 11:30 GMT (UK)
I never said you didn't know the daughter's name but merely that her name was a mystery to the rest of us trying to help. Of course you know her name but seem unwilling to share it here.

Unfortunately your quote of my earlier post left out the rest of the sentence. Whatever the dates of death you still don't know if the parents were buried anywhere in Belfast. Unfortunately without further details I don't think there's any way to help you although several of us have tried.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Northdowngal on Saturday 30 May 20 15:56 BST (UK)
I have just discovered a website for the old Shankill Burying Ground, Belfast, if that is what you are looking for it is -  www.cambraistreet.co.uk and they are listed in alphabetical order.

I hope this is of use

Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Valsgirl on Friday 07 August 20 19:48 BST (UK)
Thanks for sharing this, Northdowngal.
A very helpful site.
Valsgirl
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Northdowngal on Friday 07 August 20 20:44 BST (UK)
No problem!

Northdowngal
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Friday 07 August 20 20:57 BST (UK)
Indeed, a very good pdf listing.

Just found my OH's gt gt grandmother's death record.

KG


Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: chrimfe on Tuesday 16 April 24 19:41 BST (UK)
Hi all. If it’s not too much to ask I wonder if any can help me find information about a relative buried at Shankill. James McFetridge, father to Lily McFetridge, lived in Broadbent Street and passed away in 1892. Would anyone be able to source headstone inscriptions- if they were recorded anywhere? From public records he would have been 59 years of age. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Jon_ni on Wednesday 17 April 24 17:38 BST (UK)
He is not listed in the pdf I printed 2018 from the now expired domain on page 4. Many were interred without headstones.
You could try Familysearch see https://scottishgenes.blogspot.com/2020/02/more-on-familysearchs-new-digital-image.html
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: libbybee85 on Friday 07 March 25 12:09 GMT (UK)
I was wondering if anyone could please look up Rev James Somerville Wilson who died 11 Nov 1951. I know he is buried at Shakill in Belfast but was wondering if he had a headstone and if his wife Hilda (who died July 8th 1974) is buried with him. Unsure as I'm not sure if the cemetery was closed for burials by the 1970's. Thank you.
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: Jon_ni on Friday 07 March 25 18:13 GMT (UK)
Quote
I was wondering if anyone could please look up Rev James Somerville Wilson who died 11 Nov 1951. I know he is buried at Shakill in Belfast...

Think you have the WRONG Shankill Graveyard, was Shankill Graveyard, Lurgan, Co. Armagh.

According to https://www.belfastentries.com/places/places-to-see/shankill-graveyard/ the last interment in Shankill, Belfast was in 1934. But https://cambraistreet.co.uk/ has various notes at the end of the pdf "In August 1938 The Shankill Graveyard was closed save for 106 owners of plots. Before the creation of the rest garden in the 1960's a few were still not filled. The owners either relinquished their rights or were given sites in the City or Roselawn"
Cambrai street lists quite a few burials in the 1940's when text search for '194' but only 10 in the 1950's (no James Wilson) and none later.
Belfast City Council site just says Shankill Graveyard was handed over to the public (them) in 1958, after it had fallen into disrepair following the decision to no longer accept new burials.
https://belfastmedia.com/shankill-cemetery-the-desecration-of-1500-years-of-belfast-s-oldest-graveyard

Suggest you look for their death notices on the Belfast newspapers online on British Newspaper Archive or Findmypast.
There is no GRONI death index entry for a Hilda Wilson. There is for a Sarah Wilson 8 July 1974, born 17 Aug 1892. And a Belfast index entry for James Wilson 11 Nov 1951, aged 62.

10 July 1974 Belfast News-Letter [do not have a sub currently to open & view]
WILSON - July 8, 1974, at Hospital, Hilda, wife of the late Rev. J. S. Wilson of Duncairn [Presbyterian], and mother of Basil and Gregory. Strictly private. Funeral from Melville & Co., 43 Bedford Street, to-morrow (Thursday) after service at 2 pm....
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL/0005119/19740710&page=0002&article=032

There are a half dozen OCR newspaper index entries for Rev. James 1951 and they indicate funeral to Shankill Burying-ground, LURGAN. https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tox/
Also 3 entries in the Portadown Times Nov 1951 indicating family were originally from that area - son of late James of Edenderry, Portadown and grandson of Samuel, handkerchief maker.

That graveyard is also old and more or less closed now, superseeded by Lurgan Cemetery, Newline Road. Browse the images on https://historicgraves.com/graveyard/shankill/am-snkl or contact Isobel Hylands on Friends of Shankill Graveyard (Lurgan) https://www.facebook.com/groups/friendsofshankillgraveyard
Title: Re: Shankill Graveyard - records "all burned"???
Post by: libbybee85 on Saturday 08 March 25 00:23 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much Jon-ni. You are right. I thought it was Belfast Shankill but it is lurgan! No wonder I was getting myself confused. Thank you so much for clearing that up for me.