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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 23 February 10 09:20 GMT (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt......This one is sure to get you thinking.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
Barbara
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My Scavenger Hunt entry -
Kate Philadelphia Gerrard married Frederick Ebor Swales on 24 April 1905 at Holy Trinity Church, Aldershot. She gave her age as 26, her condition as spinster, her address as 6 Arlington Terrace, Queen's Road Aldershot and her father's name as George Gerrard, a labourer. Frederick was a lance corporal in the Royal Engineers. She was recorded as Gerard here but her name usually appears as Gerrard. The witnesses were Maurice Percy Biddle and Grace Daisy Springate, not otherwise known
Their son Frederick Thomas Swales was born on 7 April 1907 at 2 Western Terrace, Queen's Road, Aldershot.
The couple marry for a second time on the 14th October 1907 at the Register Office, Elham, Kent. Kate's age is given as 29 and her father as George Gerrard, farm labourer, her condition as spinster. She is living at 13 Morehall Avenue, Folkstone and Frederick at Shorncliffe Camp, he is still a lance corporal in the Royal Engineers. The witnesses this time were A A Joyce and Edith Joyce, again not known to have a family connection.
In the 1911 Census Kate & Frederick are living at Brompton Barracks, Chatham, Kent. Frederick is now a Corporal. Kate's age is given as 33 and her place of birth as Brede, Sussex
By 4 March 1920 when Frederick was discharged at the termination of his second period of engagement he continued to work at Kempston Barracks, Bedford as a civilian employee and the family were living at 11 Whitbread Avenue, Bedford.
Kate died of bronchial pneumonia in Sunny Lodge Hospital, Newport Pagnell on 20 January 1962, her age was given by her son as 85. Her residence at the time was 12 Lovat Street, Newport Pagnell.
The problem? There is no trace of Kate before her marriage. As the marriage was by banns presumably she was at least nominally living at Arlington Terrace for 3 weeks before her marriage but that is it. Attempts to find her birth in Brede as given in the 1911 census can be found at http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,353330.0.html - not found there
She always insisted that her name was Kate not Kathleen, Katherine etc and was proud of the Philadelphia, but this doesn't mean that these were facts. We have wondered if she could be an immigrant from America, but two people have said that she did not have a distinctive accent. We have looked at both Gerard and Gerrard and all the variants on Kate/Kathleen/Katherine we can think of, to no avail.
There were thoughts that the Kate Mary Gerrard christened 6 July 1872 might be the missing lady, her father was George Gerrard, a farm bailiff. In 1881 she was living with her mother & stepfather, Caleb Chapman (RG11 1222 89 16), in Milbrook, Hampshire, but she seems to have married at South Stoneham in Q3 1905
Please, can anyone find Kate before April 1905?
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To start us off - here are all the birth registrations of Kate Philadelphias!
Oct/Nov/Dec 1870 Stepney
Kate Phil. Andrews
Jul/Aug/Sep 1873 Reigate
Kate Phil. Baytupp (ruled out on other thread)
Ap/May/Jun1868 Worthing Sussex
Phil. Kate M Coleborn
Oct/Nov/Dec 1863 Tonbridge
Phil. Kate Manser
Jan/Feb/Mar 1856 Portsea island
Kate Phil. Prior
A/M/J 1854 Brighton Sussex
Kate Phil. Sheerman
A/M/J 1853 Stepney
Kate Phil. Turner
A/M/J 1899 Uckfield Sussex
Kate Phil E Weston
So IF she is right about her Christian names, and she was registered with them rather than either being added later ...then in theory one of these girls must be her!
Problem is, none fit in with that 1878/79 ish birth that all else points to.
So maybe concusion has to be that she did not start life with those Christian names ...
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There's a Philadelphia Gain, 16, at Brede Hill in the 1891 census. Father George Gain, an ag lab.
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And here is her birth
Ap/May/Jun 1874
Rye 2b 9
Philadelphia Gain
And in 1881 at RG11 1020 13 19 as Delphia Gain
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And a possible marraige for her parents -
Ap/May/Jun 1873
Battle 2b 85
George Gain
one of brides on page Ann Weller.
(grrr hoping it might be Gerrard!)
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Here's the full family listing in 1891:
(All born Brede)
George Gain 41 Ag Lab
Annie Gain 40
Philadelphia Gain 16
Mary A Gain 13
William J Gain 11
George A Gain 8
Thomas E Gain 5
Arthur B Gain 2
RG12/757/71/12
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So where is Philadelphia Gain in 1901?
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Just what I was working on - I cant see her, nor a marriage for her, nor a death .......
Rest of family (George, Annie and some younger children) are now living in Westfield, Battle
Rg13 877 80 19
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The Philadelphia name seems to run in the family http://www.thehunthouse.net/ghtout/gp225.htm
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There is this lady in 1901, who may be irrelevant
Rg13 22 68 33
212 Holland Rd Kensington
Kate Gerald 24 servant married bn Hastings
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Hello Robbo and all,
Is there a reason for the 2x marriages ???
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The witnesses were Maurice Percy Biddle and Grace Daisy Springate, not otherwise known
Maurice Percy BIDDLE may have married a Mary Ann GAIN, Dec 1899 Rye 2b 3
(William Albert GAIN and Mercy GUTSELL the other names on the page)
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In fact, Maurice Percy BIDDLE did marry Mary Ann GAIN, and the 1901 census (at RG13/96/5/1) shows she was born Brede abt 1878, so likely to be the 13-yr-old sister of Philadelphia GAIN found in the 1891 census above.
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Just looking at that 1901 myself - and I see Maurice is a soldier ......
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And William Albert Gain and his wife Mercy are on the 1911 census at Brede, he was born in 1876
RG14 PN4711 RG78PN201 RD68 SD2 ED7 SN39
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William and Mercy Gain did also marry each other, living in Brede in 1901. William Gain, 26, was born in Guestling, Sussex
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On Kate and Frederick son (Frederick)'s birth cert, what does it say about his mother? Is her name the full Kate Philadelphia? What about maiden name or other previous names if any?
I see he is born between marriages
Strange this two marriage thing - presumably it came to light that first was not legal for some reason so they married again to legitimize their young baby?
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The "two marriages" thing seems to come up surprisingly often with military men, and it is often said on these boards that it is something to do with not having got the requisite permission to marry from the commanding officer the first time around. I don't know the details, though.
ETA: Frederick's Army pension records only show the second of the marriages (the 1907 one, his bride's name given only as Kate GERRARD) and confirm the date he was placed on the married roll was 14.10.1907 - so it looks as though he didn't tell the Army about the first marriage ceremony.
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William Albert Gain was the son of another Gain family, James and Mary Ann - had several childen and in 1891 living in Battle they have a visitor Kate Mary BURTON born 1870 in Hastings
RG12/769/158/14
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So there were Gain family present at the first marriage, which seems to clinch it - but why did she call herself Ger(r)ard I wonder ?
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So there were Gain family present at the first marriage, which seems to clinch it - but why did she call herself Ger(r)ard I wonder ?
and Kate - the Philadelphia Gain we have followed hasnt mentioned Kate yet ...
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Frederick's army papers are on Anc***y and only show the 1907 marriage
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Aha
A Kate Gerard, age 23, is an incoming passenger on the 'Parisian' arriving April 1897 from Portland Maine (she joined at Halifax). Described as spinster but no more info.
Could she have gone to the States as Philadelphia Gain and returned as Kate Gerard?
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(she joined at Halifax).
Hmmm - Fred Swales was stationed in Halifax NS a bit later on - Nov 1901 to Dec 1903. Prior to that he was in Bermuda 1899-2001.
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And a possible marraige for her parents -
Ap/May/Jun 1873
Battle 2b 85
George Gain
one of brides on page Ann Weller.
(grrr hoping it might be Gerrard!)
This was the parent's marriage - it's an extracted record on IGI. George's age 23, his father William and Ann's age 22, maiden name Weller. Took place in Ewhurst, Sussex.
Posted in case this turns out to be the correct family.
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Philadlephia Gain was the mother of a child Elsie Gain baptised on 6th October 1897 at St Mary's Church, Bryanston Sq, London.
No father's name was given and the mother was classed as a housemaid.
Could this be why she came back from America with a different name??
ETA Should have said the address given was 157 Marylebone Road and the baptism was one of 5 for illegitimate children from the same adress on the same day.
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Philadlephia Gain was the mother of a child Elsie Gain baptised on 6th October 1897 at St Mary's Church, Bryanston Sq, London.
No father's name was given and the mother was classed as a housemaid.
Could this be why she came back from America with a different name??
ETA Should have said the address given was 157 Marylebone Road and the baptism was one of 5 for illegitimate children from the same adress on the same day.
Wow! Kate/Philadelphia had a younger sister Elsie too, born abt 1892.
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Possible birth/death for Philadelphia's daughter Elsie:
Birth Sep qtr 1897
Elsie GAIN
Marylebone 1a 594
Death Mar qtr 1900
Elsie GAIN, aged 2
Hastings 2b 42a
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There were 5 baptisms at that church on 6 October 1897 - mothers are all maids, all with no father named. All living at 157 Marylebone Road
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There were 5 baptisms at that church on 6 October 1897 - mothers are all maids, all with no father named. All living at 157 Marylebone Road
157 Marylebone Road seems to have been the address of the St Marylebone Female Protection Society.
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If it IS all the same person she must have been 4 0r 5 mths pregnant when she came back from overseas .... Elsie was born 29 Aug 1897 according to chr record ....went to home for unmarried mothers and had baby (maybe arranged by family who used her original name, rather than the new name she took when in America) then she remains in London as a servent in 1901 before marrying .....
Lots of theories, need some proof!
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The Era April 1896.
Miss Kate Gerard amongst list of persons being asked to forward stamped envelope to claim undelivered mail.
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The Era April 1896.
Miss Kate Gerard amongst list of persons being asked to forward stamped envelope to claim undelivered mail.
The Era was the paper favoured by actors and actresses. In May 1896 it reports that Miss Kate Gerard was admirable as Mrs Ralli Carr in a production of Gentleman Joe in Doncaster.
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"The Marylebone Female Protection Society, affords shelter exclusively to those who have recently been led astray, and whose previous good character will bear the strictest investigation"
http://dl.tufts.edu/view_text.jsp?urn=tufts:central:dca:UA069:UA069.005.DO.00080&chapter=front003
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Hi all,
Have had a look at various takes on this and would like to take this in a seperate direction. The 1881 census shows an Alfred age 81 and Philadelphia Ades age 82 living in Brede.
And I have found a Philadelphia Ades born June 1875 in the district of Uckfield which is on the Sussex/ East Sussex border
Probably no connection but maybe worth looking into
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In 1911 a Grace SPRINGATE, was a single barmaid at the Royal Hotel High St Aldershot. She was born 1888 Kent Woolwich.
There is a GRO ref for a Grace Daisy Springate b Dec 1887 in Woolwich so this would appear to be the other marriage witness.
Grace Daisy Springate then married an Arthur Bullous in Sep 1912 in Sculcoates.
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To complete the roll-call of marriage witnesses, those on the second marriage in 1907 (A A JOYCE and Edith JOYCE) may correspond to this marriage:
Marriage Mar qtr 1906
JOYCE Arthur Alfred
TIPPETT Edith
on same page, Devonport 5b 473
Later records show a matching couple living just outside Shorncliffe Camp, Arthur a 2nd Corporal in the Royal Engineers.
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Just catching up with what has happened whilst I was away - seems Kate Gerard might be a stage name?
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Here's a lovely picture of the actress Kate Gerard
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/cdv-of-actress-kate-gerard
I wonder if Robbo has any family photos to compare?
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A search of The Stage database for "Kate Gerard" brings up a number of references in 1896, 1898 and 1903 (you need a subscription to view the items).
https://archive.thestage.co.uk/Default/Skins/TheStage/Client.asp?Skin=TheStage&enter=true&AppName=2&AW=1266947014770
Nothing for Kate Gerrard but there is one in The Era from 1892 ("thoroughly capable")
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As always I am amazed by the amount of information unearthed in a short time, and as usual I turn up on the graveyard shift at RootsChat so I am doing a frantic catch up with it all.
The army papers are interesting, and slightly odd. When I downloaded them from TNA the last two pages weren't there so I never got the Military History sheet with his overseas service, next of kin, marriage & birth of son.
There seem to be three lines opening up at the moment.
1 Philadelphia Gains, born in Brede who had an illegitimate daughter Elsie in 1897. It may be relevant that Kate was very attached to her eldest grandaughter and on several occasions tried to have her live with her rather than her parents. She also let slip late in her life that she had had a daughter who had died. It was always assumed that this had been within her marriage, but could this have been little Elsie who died age 2? With regards to Maurice Biddle, he was a Sergeant in the 3rd Scots Guards in 1901 in Westminster (RG13-96-5-1) and I had assumed that the connection was military, but when would they have met given the very different service, Guards & Royal Engineers. Brother in law seems quite a possibility.
2. Kate Gerrard from Halifax, if only her arrival had been after Frederick's service there. Kate did have some sort of obsession with Americans, befriended a number of American families in this country and is rumoured to have given them family heirlooms, her grandaughters toys... Or was Kate Gerrard from Halifax Philadelphia Gain under another name?
3. Kate Gerrard the actress. Needs investigating. I did have a subscription to the Stage but it seems to have lapsed. I will have to renew it.
Photos and information are a problem. Kate's two grandaughters are in their 70s and neither is in good health. Both can be tetchy if pressed for information about their family and you have to wait for information to dribble out. There are supposed to be photographs somewhere but they either can't be found or are somewhere which happens to be inaccessible at the moment. The only photo we have at the moment was taken in 1931, so isn't very useful for comparison with the picture of the actress.
Robert
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The Kate Gerard articles are all reviews of plays. Capable performances in supporting roles. Part of a touring company between 1896 & 1903 at least. I don't think this is the person we are looking for.
Robert
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And I have found a Philadelphia Ades born June 1875 in the district of Uckfield which is on the Sussex/ East Sussex border
Philadelphia Ades married a Henry Clarke in 1902 and was in Lincolnshire in 1911 so definately not the one we are looking for :(
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I don't think this is the person we are looking for
I suggest that you hold the possibility open Robert ! There are no more references after the marriage....
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keping an eye on this,
I agree don't think you should rule it out too soon. After what others have found in their famloies anything is possible. Actress refences seem to become scarce after 1903 and teh marraiges were after then, what better way to ensure your future (actresses didn't have long careers in those days) tha to marry someone who could give a "stable" lifestyle.
Some more research on Kate Gerrard actress is warranted. I think you are lucky to have some refernces to her career my grandmother was an opera singer 1914-1922 and I can find nor references to her.
regards
Robyn
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Looking at the name Philadelphia - It seems to be an unusal name but in Brede in 1881 there are ten of them which seems very high.
None are the right age but I do find the fact that it comes up alot rather significant ;D
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The Stage references are not that illuminating although do show her touring the country. In 1903 she was touring in as Nora in The Gay Parisienne. Her reviews in the Stage -
Aug 13. Standard Theatre (London?) "a refined vocalist"
Sept 10. Pentre "charming portrayal"
Sept 7 Llanelly "clever"
Sept 24 Llandudno "acceptable"
Oct 8 Batley "deserves praise"
Didn't go down a bomb in Llandudno then. In 1896 she was touring in Gentleman Joe in which she was playing the chaperone Mrs Ralli-Carr ( :D ;D) and in 1898 she was Queen Anne of Austria in The Three Musketeers.
The preponderance of Philadelphias in Brede is very interesting, particularly with the Brede connection in one of the witnesses at the first marriage.
Robert
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I wonder where she was between 1898 and 1903?
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Could she have had another stage name?
Did she go overseas again?
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Possibly a servant in Kensington - see reply #9 ?
Not quite picked up her career again after death of little girl.
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Been looking at meaning of name Philadelphia.
Means 'brotherly love' Quakers named Philadelphia city and it was a tradition amongst Quakers to name eldest daughter in each family after the city.
Could Kate's parents have been Quakers? Quakers seem to appear predominantly around Sussex and Kent.
Also there was a pianist by name of Kate Gerard playing in London briefly around 1903. :)
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I think the pianist in 1903 might be the Kate Gerard whose death at 97 on 24 Dec 1959 was reported in the Musical Times. There are also references c1928 to what seem to be the same person in Glasgow University Archives.
The family are certainly non-conformist and nowdays most consider themselves to be Baptists (more or less). The family moved to Bedford sometime between 1911 & 1920, by the time anyone can remember her Kate Philadelphia was a very firm Bunyanite (the wedding photo was in the big Bunyan Meeting House in Bedford) but I'm not sure how far outside Bedfordshire you are likely to have found Bunyanites. Before she moved to Bedford she could have been Baptist, Congregationalist or some form of Methodist. Quaker seems less likely.
Looking at it, from 1890 we have 5 "individuals" who could all be the same person, or not -
Philadelphia Gain. In Brede in 1891, daughter Elsie born 29 August 1897 in London and probably died in Sussex 1900. Elsie could have been with eg grandparents so Philadelphia not necessarily in Susses.
actress Kate. In London at some time in 1892. May 1896 touring in Gentleman Joe. June 1898 in London. August to October 1903 touring in The Gay Parisienne.
Kate from Nova Scotia. Arrives in England April 1897. Could be the actress having been in Canada/America or Philadelphia Gain coming home to have her baby or both.
housemaid Kate. In Kensington in the 1901 census. Could be any, some, all or none of the above.
Kate Philadelphia. Marries 25 April 1905.
There is no overlap between any of them so you can perm any combination from 5. The actress sounds a little mature to be Philadelphia Gain, but I could be wrong there.
No sitings of anyone 1893-1895 inclusive. 1899, 1902 or 1894. Why wasn't the actress getting reviews?
Robert
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I think you probably need to get the marriage cert for Maurice Biddle to see if there is a defnite link to the Gain family.
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I still think the Quaker aspect is worth looking at. Would someone of the Baptist, Methodist persuasion have given what was a traditional Quaker name to their child? There are records of Quaker meetings available through the Quaker website that give baptisms and marriages. Could the fact that Kate married a soldier have been a reason for her to change her beliefs?
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Thanks devonblue, I've got a batch of certificates to order so I'll add the Maurice Biddle one to the list. It would be great to find some sort of connection.
Ebch, if a connection shows up then Quakers are one avenue I will explore. I still feel that other non-conformists are perhaps more likely, you would be surprised at the names Methodists & Baptists use. Certainly Methodist, Baptist & Congregationalist Chapels in the Brede area couldn't find a Quaker Meeting House. If she was a Quaker then marrying a soldier would not be acceptable to her family and it could be a reason for changing religious affinities - or had she already fallen out with them and changed her identity - they might not of approved of the acting profession either. All sorts of possibilities if any of these options are correct. Could do with that time machine.
Robert
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Thanks to everyone for their efforts on this one. I knew that it was a very difficult problem when I posted it, and I've got more new leads out of it than I expected. I'm going to get a couple of Gain certificate to see if they shed any light on the matter, and will let you know the outcome. I'll also see if I can find out any more about the actress.
Once again, thank you all
Robert
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Hi Everyone.
It's that time of the week again and here's the new Scavenger Hunt. Hope you enjoy it.
Good luck and Good Hunting.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,441292.0.html
Barbara
As usual, this Hunt will remain open for any further information which may come in.
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This started as a scavanger hunt a long time ago and I thought I should belatedly update it for all those who helped.
This was a search for Kate Philadelphia Gerrard who married Frederick Swales in Aldershot on the 24 April 1905 but who seemingly did not exist before that date. In the 1911 census she gave her place of birth as Brede, Sussex and her age suggested a date around 1878, but there was no one of that name born anywhere near there within a timeframe of a decade or so.
The hunt suggested that one possibility was that she was actually an Philadelphia Gain born in Brede in 1874 (Q3 Rye 2b 9) and that this Philadelphia Gain gave birth to an illegitimate child, Elsie Gain, born in 1897 at 157 Marylebone Road, St Marylebone Female Protection Society.(Q3 Marylebone 1a 594). Elsie seemed to have died in Hastings in 1900 (Q1 Hastings 2b 42a) and it was her death certificate which seems to have confirmed this identification.
Although the certificate was ordered for the name of Elsie Gain, what arrived was a certificate in the name of Elsie Garrard, daughter of Frank Garrard, Private in the 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards. The informant was Emily Geater, present at the death at 2 St Mary Terrace, Bexhill Road St Leonard on Sea. The doctor certifying the death was G Garrard MRCS, now identified as George Garrard, surgeon of Seddlecombe Road, St Leonards.
The vital part, though, was in the margin. "Corrected on the 1st August 1900 ... on production of a Statuatory Declaration made by Philadelphia Gain and Mary Anne Biddle. Name to read Gain and Frank Garrard to read Philadelphia Gain a Domestic Servant".
The clue is Mary Ann Biddle, she was the younger sister of Philadelphia Gain and had married Maurice Percy Biddle, a sergeant in the 3rd Scots Guards. Maurice was a witness to the marriage of Kate Gerrard and Frederick Swales in 1905.
But Garrard not Gerrard? I think that that is an error made by the registrar because of the similarity of the dead girl's name and that of the doctor. I cannot find a Frank Garrard in the Grenadier Guards but I can find a Frank Gerrard in the 1st Battalion. In 1901 he was in Wellington Barracks, Bird Cage Walk, St James Park (RG13 piece 96 folio 91 page 8). I can trace his history from his birth in Frome in 1872 through to his rejoining the 1st Battalion Grenadier Guards on the 8th Sep 1914 (claiming 12 years previous service in the Grenadiers) and through the First World War.
Not absolute proof but a very strong probability that Kate Philadelphia Gerrard was Philadelphia Gain, but where did the name Kate come from, and where was she in 1901?
Thanks to all those who helped and found Philadelphia Gain for me.
Robert
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Thanks for the update Robert. I'd say that was case proven - the Biddle link seems to be very strong circumstantial evidence.
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To finally prove the link, my wife's recent DNA test with Ancestry has shown links to a number of people with Gain ancestors in Brede