RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Worcestershire => England => Worcestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sheilaoxon on Sunday 21 February 10 18:39 GMT (UK)
-
Hi there
I am relatively new to this site and wondered if anyone could help. I have a marriage certificate for my Gt Gt Grandfather, John Morgan who married Ellen Gill on 25th March 1846. On this certificate he gives his father's name as Joseph Morgan. On all the census returns John gives his birthplace as Malvern.
I live a good distance from Worcester record office, in Oxfordshire, but have made two visits trying to find John's birth in the parish records (c1820), looking at what I thought were all the parishes that the birth could have been registered in, given that John was born in Malvern, but to no avail. This is the first time I have researched anyone pre-1837, looking at actual parish records and I do wonder if I could have missed one. Could anyone give me a difinitive list of all the parishes that Malvern could have included as I wonder if I missed one.
If anyone is visiting the record office in the near future, I would, of course, be really grateful if they could have a look for this birth for me. Unfortunately I do not have his mother's christian name.
-
What was Joseph's(father) occupation on cert? Was either of the witnesses a Morgan
Jackie
-
Hi Jackie
Joseph's occupation is given as Labourer. The witnesses were not Morgans, they were Henry and Ann Stanley (these names are not familiar to me and are not family names). The marriage of John took place in Hampton Lucy, Warwick, and John and Ellen, his wife, were Labourer and Servant, so I imagine they met through work and were not near home.
Thanks for your interest.
Regards
Sheila
-
This parish locator may help:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/churchdb/search.html
-
Hi Ruskie
Thanks for that. I just looked briefly and it does look helpful. Will look properly later when I have more time.
I appreciate your reply.
Regards
Sheila
-
Hi Sheila
I only got back from a 10 week holiday in Worcestershire last Sunday but will be going up again in April when I will have a look at all the Malvern parishes to see if I can find this MAR in any of the registers for you.
Wish me luck :)
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
ps if I have time I will also try to find John's BAP for you
-
Thank you for your offer Phil. It is John Morgan's birth c1820 I really need to find. He gives his father's name as Joseph on his marriage certificate (1846). I don't have his mother's name. I suppose if I could find a marriage for a Joseph Morgan 20 - 40 years before John's birth this might help (1780 - 1820).
I did look at quite a few parish records when I visited the record office, but so far could only find a birth for a John Morgan in 1818 in the parish of Great Malvern, which appears to be illigitimate, it just gives a mother's name - Elizabeth Morgan. However, because John gives a father's name (Jospeph Morgan) on his marriage certificate in 1846, this doesn't fit. He could have been lying on his marriage certificate I suppose, but how do I know?
Anyway, any help you can give me would of course be very much appreciated. I am new to looking at parish records - all my research so far has been possible via information available on the internet. I am finding it rather frustrating!! I guess perseverance and patience are the bywords!!
Thanks again.
Regards
Sheila
-
Hi,
Just a thought, but have you looked in any of the Herefordshire parishes? Great Malvern is right on the border between Worcestershire & Herefordshire so his baptism/birth could be either county.
RobPhill
-
Thanks for that tip Phil. Will bear that in mind. I'm really hoping to come up with something, otherwise my research on this side of my family stops here.
Regards
Sheila
-
Hi Sheila
There are several parishes for Malvern, Malven Link, Malvern Wells, great Malvern etc so he may crop up in one of them or even a contiguous parish (one that joins Malvern)
All the very best
Phil
ps the Malvern history society are doing an index of WOR baptisms & its availabl on line -but you have to pay to view a lot of it
-
Thanks again Phil. The Malvern history society looks helpful. Keeping my fingers crossed I'll find the baptism eventually!
Regards
Sheila :)
-
It is John Morgan's birth c1820 I really need to find. He gives his father's name as Joseph on his marriage certificate (1846). I don't have his mother's name. I suppose if I could find a marriage for a Joseph Morgan 20 - 40 years before John's birth this might help (1780 - 1820).
This thread caught my eye as I am interested in finding the baptismal record for a Alice Lewis Morgan born 1879 in Malvern Wells. Looking on the IGI, I found a Joseph Morgan marrying a Mary Ann Wray, 8 August 1814 at St Mary's St Malvern.
-
Hi Pua
Thanks for your reply. I have come across that marriage on IGI myself some time ago but discounted it because I couldn't find a matching birth for John. Your reply has made me think perhaps I should reconsider this and do more research. If I could spend more time in the Worcester record office I'm sure I could eventually solve this but it is not nearby!
Your family may well be connected to mine, I have certainly discovered other Morgan families in the area, but so far I can't seem to link John Morgan with any of them - if I had his parents I could then look for other children they had. You certainly have to be persistent don't you!
Thank you anyway, I may revisit the marriage record you sent to me and will let you know if I come up with anything.
Regards
Sheila
-
I couldn't find any children listed for Joseph Morgan and Mary Ann on the IGI. I also did a cursory check on the 1841 census, nothing meaningful (that I could find) either. I am sure you did all these things, too, but sometimes another pair of eyes are helpful. Someone else mentioned looking at the Herefordshire records. That is where my Morgan's were in the early 19th century and perhaps yours as well. Good luck!
-
Hi There
Gt Malvern
8 AUG 1814 page 5 no 13 after Banns
Joseph Morgan (B) = Mary Ann Wray (S) BOTP
Wits- James Turner, Florence Wray
I am unable to find the Bap for John Morgan but wonder if this could be his parents marriage, as its the only one for a Joseph at Gt Malvern in the Marriage Index book that he should be in - there are more Joseph's but noty for this parish
I have checked this out with the parish registers which is why I could add more detail to it than just the 2 names & the parish
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
Holidaying in WOR
ps sorry its the best I could do for you
-
Hello Phil
It was so kind of you to remember your earlier offer to have a look for me when next you were in Worcester. Thank you for the details you found for me. I don't know what to think really - I suppose my John Morgan may not have been baptised perhaps? But that can only ever be an assumption on my part. It's difficult, as without proof that these are his parents, I could be researching the wrong family if I continue to look further back for this particular Joseph Morgan's parents.
I'm sure this sort of thing happens a lot when researching family history. I did so want to research this particular line, as Morgan is my family name.
Anyway, thank you once again for your help and good luck with your own research.
Regards
Sheila
-
Hi Sheila
I have looked at all the Malvern parishes again & only 2 of them had records as early as 1820 (about the time when John Morgan would have been Bapd) but I'm still unable to find a Bap for him that you need before you can take your tree back another generation. [Sorry]
If you find any new info then get in touch as I can try again on one of my future holidays in Worcestershire Aug/Sep, Dec/Jan & Apr/May
All the very best
Phil
Weston-super-Mare
-
Hi Phil
I do appreciate your efforts on my behalf, so thank you so much for looking. I would love to continue my research on the Morgan line, I'm not giving up yet!
Thanks again.
Regards
Sheila
-
Hi Sheila
Perhaps a new angle would be to look at the John Morgan b1818 son of Elizabeth and find out what happened to him and his mother. A search of the burial register for Great Malvern to see if he died as a child for instance. Or if Elizabeth had other children baptised there?
Also is there another John Morgan born Malvern c1820 cropping up in the census?
just a few ideas...