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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: bullfrog1995 on Saturday 20 February 10 00:33 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I'm wondering if anyone here can read french?
If so, can you please try to decode this marriage license between my great-great-great-great-grandparents. Ambroise Laurion and Victoire Poitras. I'm trying to find both of their parents, but I can not read it :(
Thank you very much!
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Oops. I posted this in the wrong board!
Prue, can you please move this thread?
Thanks
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I'll give it my best shot....stand by because it will take a little while :)
Cheers,
China
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Okay...
The 5th February one thousand eight hundred thirty nine after publication of two banns the marriage was made on the promise of…mass parishial (meaning of the parish mass) having disposed….of the other bann as it brought by the letters of Messire Viau the vicar general [a priest appointed by the bishop to assist in parish duties]……..between Ambroise Lorion [obscured word that looks like “veuf” meaning widower] major [meaning of majority age] of the… little Belleisle….parish of the one part [party of the first part legalese], and Victoire Poitras minor daughter of Joseph Poitras and Therese? Marson? her father and mother of this parish of the other part [legalese]. Not having discovered any impediment to the said marriage we the undersigned curate having received the consent of the [parents, I think] received the mutual consent to the marriage [I think the priest lost his place and repeated himself here…I’ve looked at the other entries on the pages and don’t see it written this way] having given them the nuptial benediction in the presence of Toussaint Marson? a friend of the husband of Casimir Lorion his brother of Joseph Poitras brother? of the wife of Francois Poitras his/her [obscured word that may be “pere”, father] as the spouses have declared that they cannot sign [their names].
Labelle [priest]
Whew, this was complicated…the handwriting is a mess and French is not my first language, and there’s no punctuation… :P :P :P Well, if you can't get the gist of it, PM me and I'll try harder :D
Cheers,
China
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So...Ambroise being apparently a widower, his parents aren't mentioned. But there's an Ambroise Lorion born 1802 to Louis Lorion and Marie Marguerite Chalifou...the writing is much better and if you need it I'll translate it. It's in the Pointe-aux-Trembles parish of Laval, the northern island just above the island of Montreal....about 15 miles from L'Assomption where the 1839 marriage took place, on the same side (north) of the St Lawrence River.
Lucky you, Quebec genealogy...have you run into the "dit" names yet?? ;D
Cheers,
China
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Thanks China! Big help!
I actually have a couple of these documents. Sorry to say they are all in french. Do you think you could do some more? I can understand if you wouldn't want to, seeing as French is not a first language to you. Just let me know, I could save time posting them in threads and maybe PM them to you. It's up to you. I really appreciate you "converting" the language for me :)
Sure, if you don't mind could you tell me what is on Ambroise's baptismal with Louis and Marie Marguerite. I'm making a scrap book of the Laurion side (that I just recently found) and that would be nice to add.
Oh my god! Don't even get me started with dit names! SO confusing! :P I never "dit" understand it :P
My attempt at humor :)
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I never "dit" understand it :P
AAaarrrrghhhhh....<choke> :P :P :P
Actually, "dit" is pronounced "dee". It means said or called.
Anyway. Sure, no problem, feel free to PM me with whatever you need.
Cheers,
C
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Here's the baptism:
The year 1802 the 11 Sept I the undersigned have baptized Ambroise born today of the legitimate marriage of Louis Lorion laborer and Marie Marguerite Chalifou living in this parish the godfather [the word is spelled “parein”, may be an old French word and should be written “parrain”] Ambroise Moran and the godmother [“mareine” should be “marraine”] Josette Boucher who have declared not to know to sign [they can’t write] with the father present.
Girouard priest
There are two register entries for this baptism, one is 1802 Pointe aux Trembles, the other is 1795-1810, St-Enfant-Jesus, Pointe aux Trembles…the wording is identical.
In French if you have the word St. or Saint[e] in a place name, it may mean Saint or it may mean Holy. So a place called, for example, Saint-Joseph, would mean Saint Joseph....but Saint-Sepulchre would mean Holy Sepulcher. In this case it would be a church named Holy Infant Jesus (in English we'd probably call it Holy Christ Child or similar).
The catholic parish registers follow a fairly consistent format in wording and are usually not too hard to deal with. It's the handwriting that's the problem, especially if you have a priest that likes to improvise a bit :D
Cheers,
China
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Hi
I have some suggestions for the translation of the marriage document.
I think lines 2 to 4 read: ‘… after the publication of two marriage banns made in the sermons (prônes) of our parish masses, the parties having obtained dispensation (dispense) for the other bann … ‘
I’m not sure if ‘sermon’ is the right translation but ‘prône’ seems to refer to the bit where the priest talks directly to the congregation.
In line 6 I think what follows ‘veuf majeur’ is the name of the previous wife – so he was the widower of somebody ‘Belleisle of this parish’. I’m not sure of the first name – I’m tempted to say Josephine as the first part looks a lot like the ‘Joseph’ in the third line from the bottom.
Eddie
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Good catch Eddie! It was Josephine Bellisl, just found the marriage of 1830, transcribed in the Ancestry index as Alphine. The Belleisle threw me because there's a similar place name.
The word prône, I've never heard of that, very useful to know. I think in catholicese it's called a homily?
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So Ambroise had a first wife Josephine Bellesle who died. And then he re-married to Victoire Poitras? I'm just making sure I get this right.
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Yes, seems so, although I can't find Josephine's death. In Repentigny, which is halfway between L'Assomption and Pointe-aux-Trembles.
PM me with your email addy and I'll send you the cert, will attempt a translation if you like.
I also found a death for Louis Lorion in 1839. Also found the death of Ambroise in 1880, and it's the right guy.
Cheers,
China
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BTW, I meant to mention that the document posted above is not a marriage license, but the actual parish record of the marriage. This, believe it or not, was what all certificates looked like until 1996. Not a typo...Quebec didn't have civil registration until 1996.
So this is the cert :)
Cheers,
China