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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: sidneyreilly on Friday 19 February 10 09:46 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find information about a Robert Knox, born in the early 1800's maybe around the Felton area. He was married to an Elizabeth Crozier Scott and they had two children:
Jane Scott Knox
John Scott Knox
Robert Knox was a seaman - ANy help or info would be most appreciated.
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Tell us what you have already - have youfound him on any censuses? Date of marriage? births of children?
sounds like you may have all this, in which case I am not sure what else can be found easily!
you could see if the Local Record Office has any surviving Ships records.
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Hiya Sidney....there are 3 Felton results on Multimap..
HEREFORD
BRISTOL
NORTHUMBERLAND
Which one was your Robert Knox from ?.....allan
ADDED....I found these but 1862 seems a little late if Robert was born early 1800`s
on freebmd ..marriage dec qtr 1862 Robert Knox to Elizabeth Scott Ashton 8d 674
cheshirebmd Robert Knox to Elizabeth Scott in Christ church Ashton under Lyne in 1862 Tameside CE1/3/175
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He would most likely be from Northumberland...
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Here is all the info that I have so far:
Here is all I have found out so far. Am planning to go to the Nat Archives and search records of seamen. Any suggestions most welcome !! Smiley
Facts & assumptions about the Scott Family
1. There is no sign of an Elizabeth Scott born 1826 in Felton on the 1851 Census.
1. There is no sign of an Elizabeth Knox born 1826 in Felton on the 1851 Census
1. There is a baptism for a Elizabeth Crozier Scott in Felton in 1826
1. There is a baptism for a Jane Scott Knox in Felton in 1852
1. There are two Jane Scott’s registered as being born in Alnwick, one in Oct – Nov 1850 & one in Apl – June 1851
1. There are two Edward Scott’s living in Felton around 1826 / 1827 – one married to Barbara and one to Mary
1. There are two James Scott’s living in Felton around 1828 / 1831 – one married to Uphence and one to Phillis
1. Elizabeth & Roberts son John Scott Knox is possibly living with his aunt on the 1871 Census (shows as John Scott aged Cool and with his sister on the 1881 Census. His mother Elizabeth does not show up anywhere on the 1871 Census & has remarried by the 1881 Census.This leads us to believe that Elizabeth had to go somewhere and leave her young son with her sister.
1. George Wells and Margaret Scott (possibly daughter of James & Uphence) were married in 1860 in Easington, Durham and this would have made Margaret about 17 or 18. The 1861 census shows three children aged 5, 3 & 1 which leads me to think that maybe the older children come from an earlier marriage and that the George aged 1 is Margaret’s son unless she started having children at 13 or 14….
1. Not all of James and Uphence Scott’s children show up in the birth records and I am sure that many children were not registered for all sorts of reasons in the early 1800’s
So the conclusions based on the evidence available is as follows:
Robert Knox did exist and most likely was a seaman who was away a great deal
Evidenced by the fact that his name is on the baptism records of both Jane & John. Also when Elizabeth remarried she gave her name as Knox.
Elizabeth Crozier Scott’s parents were Edward & Mary
The main evidence is their names on her baptism record. Whilst there is another Elizabeth Scott born around the same time in Felton with parents named James & Uphence this can not explain the names of Edward & Mary on this Elizabeth’s baptism record. I suspect that Mary would have been Mary Crozier. There are a couple of Mary Crozier’s that show up :
Mary Crozier b 19 Dec 1809 Hexham
Mary Crosier b 16 Jan 1799 Tanfield
Elizabeth Crozier Scott is Jane Scott Knox’s mother
Jane’s baptism record show her mother as Elizabeth Crozier, this is quite an unusual name and the fact that a baptism record exists in the right place and timeline for a Elizabeth Crozier Scott I take this as conclusive evidence of the line back from Jane Scott Knox through Elizabeth Crozier Scott to Edward & Mary Scott.
The two Edward & Mary Scott’s
A search on the IGI shows an Edward Scott who was married to a Mary Sill and they had a son named Edward who was born in 1802 and christened in Felton in 1805.This Edward is the right age and in the right place to be Elizabeths father however info from another tree suggests that he is the Edward that is married to Barbara and they are still living together in 1871. Boyd’s marriage index records the marriage of Edward Scott and Mary Sill in 1785 in Felton. Elizabeth’s baptism record shows her parents as Edward & Mary.
Who was John Knox’s aunt Margaret?
The 1871 census has John Knox living with his Aunt Margaret Wells (nee Scott). I think that this Margaret Wells is most likely the daughter of James & Uphence Scott. The fact that John is described as a nephew is confusing. I think that there are a few possibilities – firstly, there are many Knox’s in the Felton area and it is possible that this John is not our John Scott Knox. Secondly there is a chance that Margaret is not the daughter of James and Uphence but another daughter of Edward and Mary Scott that has not shown up in the birth records. Thirdly, and I think most likely is that Margaret is the daughter of James and Uphence and that James Uphence was a brother of Edward which could still make Margaret an Aunt / relation of John Knox. From the census records we find several families of Scott’s all from the Felton area all calling their children very similar names – we must assume that they could easily be related.
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WOW :) You have me totally confused!
I am going to post some details to help others that may search for you after I go to bed here in Australia
Christenings;
Jane Scott KNOX, 03 October 1852, Felton , Northumberland
EUPHENCE Knox, 03 October 1858, Felton
Parents, Robert KNOX, Elizabeth CROZIER
Possible Death reg;
Uphenee KNOX, March 1859, Tynemouth, 10b 85
1861 census Jane KNOX age 9, born North Sheilds, c 1852, is living with her Mother Elizabeth born 1826 Felton, Northumberland.
RG9/3838/18/29
Marriage;
Jane Scott KNOX/Thomas CARR, December 1868, Newcastle T, 10b 145
OK, I see John KNOX is born c 1863, Felton, Northumberland.
1871 he is with Uncle and Auntie George and Margaret WELLS
RG10/5035/48/25
1881 he is with his Sister Jane CARR
RG11/5018/81/31
Trish :)
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I should clarify a little. I am trying to find information / records about a Robert Knox who has been put down as the father on the christening records of Jane Scott Knox and John Knox. His wife / their mother is Elizabeth Scott, probably ELizabeth Crozier Scott. I had wondered if Robert Knox was a made up name to legitimise the Elizabeths children but I think that he did exist and was a seaman. All the info and my reasoning is below on an earlier post.
Thanks
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George WELLS married Margaret SCOTT, September 1860, Easington, 10a 346
Yes I agree Georges elder children are not the children of Margarets.
First child is reg UPHANCE Wells, Dec 1855, Durham
Back to Elizabeth;
Elizabeth Crozier SCOTT, christened 14 May 1826, Felton
Parents EDWARD Scott and MARY
1841 Census
James SCOTT, 40
Uphance, 35
ELIZABETH, 15
Edward, 6
James, 2
HO107/830/3/Felton
Could she be a Neice? as no relationships are given.
Birth/Christening;
James SCOTT,
16 November 1799
24 November 1799, Felton, Northumberland
Parents, Edward SCOTT and Mary SILL
There are lots of children on the batch born/christened 1786/1805
Included is an EDWARD, born 1802, Christened 14 April 1805, Felton
Marriage;
Edward SCOTT married Mary SILL, 10 December 1785, Felton
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Hi,
I understand what you wanted but it was a little confusing. I was just trying to clarify.
I agree that Robert probably existed but as he never seems to appear on a Census it is hard tp prove.
Also I cannot find a Marriage for Elizbeth and Robert. ???
Perhaps other will help as I am of to bed.
Cheers,
Trish
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Marriage;
Robert KNOX, December 1862, Ashton, 8d 674
On the same page Elizabeth SCOTT
Only possibility I can find.
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1871 Census
Felton, Northumberland
RG10/5169/10/14
ELIZABETH KNOX, 45, Head, Widow, Laundress, born Felton
James SCOTT, 74, Father, Widow, Retired Plumber, born Felton
So Robert must have died between 1863 and 1871.
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Thanks for all of that Trish. I already had the info from the census and marriage records etc. The one thing that was confusing me was which Elizabeth Scott was married to Robert Knox and was also the mother of Jane Scott Knox, John Scott Knox and Euphence Knox. Because of the baptism records for all three children which name their mother as Elizabeth Crozier I had assumed that their mother must have been an ELizabeth Crozier Scott - most likley taking the middle name Crozier from her own mother's maiden name. This assumption was helped when I found a baptism record for an Elizabeth Crozier Scott in Felton - her parents were named as Edward Scott and Mary.
At this point it all looked quite clear and logical. But then I struggled to find the records that I needed. Edward & Mary Scott with a daughter named Elizabeth (born in 1826) do not show up anywhere near Felton, in fact the only record that I can find of them is the baptism record for Elizabeth Crozier Scott.
Yesterday I decided to work backwards, the Elizabeth Scott that I am looking for is certainly the one who remarried to Robert Asher in 1877 as on the 1901 census we find Elizabeth Asher (widow) living with her son Robert Scott Knox. She is also the Elizabeth Knox who is on the 1861 census, listed as a seamans wife with a daughter named Jane. There is no trace of an Elizabeth Scott or Knox born in Felton in 1826 on the 1851 Census.
This now brings me to the 1861 census and the Elizabeth Knox (Widow) living with her father James Scott. I had looked at this before and discounted her as I was looking for an Elizabeth with a father named Edward. However after thinking about it I now feel that she must be the correct Elizabeth, everything seems to fit, Born 1826, in Felton & Maiden name Scott.
The only strange thing that I still can not work out is this: Why on the baptism records of Jane, John & Euphence Scott Knox is their mother named Elizabeth Crozier?! Two ideas here - Crozier is the middle name (most likley from mother's maiden name) or Elizabeth Scott was married to somebody called Crozier prior to marrying Robert Knox (assuming she did marry him). I have looked for a marriage record for Elizabeth Scott to ? Crozier and can't find anything. Still in the back of my mind I have the baptism record for Elizabeth Crozier Scott, born Felton 1826??!!
Finally turning to Robert Knox, there is nothing at all to be found relating to him, this is most likely explained by his occupation of seaman. I am back in the UK next week for a few days and will be going to the Nat Archives to check the seamans tickets records and will hopefully find him there. I am also going to order the marriage cert for Elizabeth to Robert Asher (hopefully find out her fathers correct name) and I will also order the baptism record for Elizabeth Crozier Scott in case there has been a transcription mistake on there.
Thanks
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I think you have sorted most of it out incredibly well.
1841 Census
Felton, Northumberland
HO107/830/3/Felton
James SCOTT, 40, Tinsmith
Uphance, 35
ELIZABETH, 15
Edward, 6
James, 2
All born in County
1851 Census there is James 50 , Uphance 47, Edward 16, James 12, Uphence aged 6
HO107/2419/17/27
1861 Census, James 61, Tin Plate Worker
Uphance 56, James 22, Uphance, 15 +
John SCOTT, 28, Son, Mar, Shoemaker, born Felton
John WALTON, 8, Grandson, born New Hartley
James WALTON, 6, Grandson, born New Hartley
So where is John in 1841 Census when he would have been age 8ish
He is Christened 06 October 1833, Felton, Parents James and Euphemia.(Ancestry) on on IGi has Sister Jane 1828.
Who are the Walton Grandchildren?
Are they Elizabeths? Or Janes?
Or was their another daughter that doesn't appear on 1841 Census?
Was James Snrs Mother a Crozier?
Sorry more questions ::)
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I am not sure who the Walton Grandchildren are, not Mary's because I think I found a marriage for her and it was not Walton. Most likley not Elizabeth because she married a Knox so most Likely they are Janes or a daughter we do not know of. But to be honest the Walton children are not really of interest.
I would really like to find a marriage record (in felton) for Elizabeth Scott to Robert Knox and also a reason for the Scott Knox children's baptism records stating the mothers name as ELizabeth Crozier??!!
James senior's mothers name was Mary Sill so it does not come from there.... I did wonder if he was married earlier and then widowed but Elizabeth was born after his (suposed) marriage to Uphence Howey although I can not find any records of the marriage or of Uphence....
Ho hum..... in the Spring I will be heading up to Woodhorn to check all the records....
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hi
dont t know if may be by chance we might have the same robert knox
im a knox ( from south affrica but living in the uk now ) have just been givin
my fam tree and i have a robert knox married isabella craw (they were border foke near belford) they had a son and daughter therer son robert knox was born 5 august 1845 died in northhumberland jan 17 1910 there daughter isabella knox married robert sinclair but no dates for her birth or death or marrage she was also in newcastle on tyne
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hi my name is natalie knox im the great great great great ( i think thats right) of robert knox who was married to jane mcarther i have done a fam tree on ancecery .com and have gone back to the late 1700 but have come to a stand still my great grand dad was james the brother of robert that you are al talking about i have up loaded a part of my tree for you to see
look forward to hearing from you