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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset => England => Somerset Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Cynfran on Thursday 18 February 10 15:20 GMT (UK)
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Is it possible that someone can kindly provide more information (e.g. father's occupation) on the baptism of Kezia Amelia Gray dated 3rd March 1822 at Bath St Swithun? Thank you.
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Hi Cynfran,
It seems Kezia was born in 1799 but not baptised until 1822 therefore her fathers occupation was not listed. There is also a sibling listed on FreeReg who was baptised in 1797 (prior to the forms and inclusion of the fathers occupation.)
http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/SearchResults.pl?RecordType=Baptisms&RecordID=1438351
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks Kris and, sorry, didn't get notification of your reply, so only just come across it!
Yes, I'd seen that 'sibling' baptism and wondered why there was such a gap between Kezia's birth and baptism.
Probably stupid question ,but when and under what circumstances was a father's occupation shown on the baptismal register?
The (I think) strange thing is that I have an 1863 certified copy of the 1813 baptism of another child and this gives the father's occupation. It took place not at St Swithin's, but at the same (Argyle Independent) chapel as the 'sibling', Jesse.
Regards
Cynfran
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Hi Cynfran,
I didn't look further but wondered if Kezia may have been emigrating or marrying which brought on the late baptism.
Initially all records were just a single line across the page of the parish register.
In 1754 the forms arrived for marriage. These allowed the inclusion of witness names and possibly further information on parish of residence. Fathers names were not included until after civil registration began in July 1837 and the forms were updated to allow for this inclusion.
In 1813 the forms arrived for baptsms and burials. (name date and parents names is general is all we see prior to this) The forms allowed for extra information to be included such as a residence and an occupation for baptisms and with burials we then see an age, residence and possibly further information such as "wife/son/dau of ...."
Cheers Kris :)
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This looks like the marriage
John GRAY bachelor of Bath St Michael = Keziah HORNBLOWER spinster of Walcot St Marys Chapel by Banns 11 Nov 1796 Walcot St Marys Chapel
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks again Kris, very good of you. That certainly looks like the marriage, unfortunately without John's occupation, (surgeon) I can't be sure. He re-married in 1805 at Winchester, when he was described as a widower. From all the interesting information that you provided re' forms, would child Kezia's 1822 baptism have had all the extra information on do you think?
Just found why no notifications, they were being trapped by 'anti spam'!
Regards
Cynfran
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Hi Cynfran,
Glad you found your notifications. ;D
I think that entry for Kezia is all there is because she was an adult bringing herself for baptism. Those FreeReg entries are usually complete, but of course get a look at it to convince yourself.
Do you have reason to believe Kezia was his daughter? I did not find anything further on her.
I am afraid I am not all that convinced with this possible marriage at this stage. After looking about today I found the chap you were after was a surgeon. You will need to see the marriage entries for signatures but I note the marriage to Jane was by licence.
Marriage Licence Allegation
John GRAY of Walcot Bath co Somerset, surgeon 35 widowed = Jane GOVER of St Thomas Winchester, 26 spinster at St Thomas Winchester 6 Dec 1805 Bondsman - William GOVER of St Thomas Builder
I would expect that. Upper class people often marry by Licence as it is a symbol of their status in the community. (and they could afford the licence) This Bath marriage is by Banns. :-\ Not saying he couldn't marry by banns but I would be inclined to think surgeon would have been included in the entry. I would certainly want to get a look at it. Maybe it is there - I have only seen a transcript. I would have liked to find Jesse or Kezia later on but alas I have not spotted either of them. (or the parents)
I see John and Jane's childrens baptisms appear in the BMD Register, but alas they wont help with this previous marriage.
http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk/
Jesse also so you could purchase copies if you wish
Cheers Kris :)
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Hi Kris
You are right to have doubts about the marriage, I admit that I was 'sucked in' by the circumstances, i.e. the use of the Argyle Chapel also used for baptisms of children by 2nd marriage, the date (John would have been around 26 at the time of 'marriage').
However, I will buy some credits and follow up your suggestion re' Jesse's baptism and let you know the outcome.
Thanks again for your interest & help so far.
Regards
Cynfran
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Hi Kris
Glad to let you know that I've (at last - 2 years!) confirmed 'John Gray' as my gg grandfather. Thanks to recently released newspaper archives, I have found an announcement for the marriage of 'John Gray, Apothecary, to Kezia Hornblower', John indeed having trained and traded at that time as an apothecary, as did his son.
Thank you again for your contribution to this result.
Regards
Cynfran
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Walcot was an enormous parish and FreeREG's transcriptions of its registers have been done piecemeal by about 20 people over several years. Some from images of the originals but some from older transcripts. The latter do not always include all the information that was in the original, and that is the case with the file covering 1822. The original entry for Kezia Gray very likely included her father's occupation, but the transcript didn't.
We hope eventually to replace the incomplete transcriptions, but priority goes to registers that haven't been transcribed at all.
David
FreeREG Area Assistant for Bath
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Hi David
That's interesting, thank you
Cynfran
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Hi Kris
Glad to let you know that I've (at last - 2 years!) confirmed 'John Gray' as my gg grandfather. Thanks to recently released newspaper archives, I have found an announcement for the marriage of 'John Gray, Apothecary, to Kezia Hornblower', John indeed having trained and traded at that time as an apothecary, as did his son.
Thank you again for your contribution to this result.
Regards
Cynfran
Hi Cynfran,
I wonder if you have any further information about Keziah Hornblower who married John Gray.
I have someone of that name born abt 1768 as the daughter of Jabez Carter Hornblower and Mary John. This comes from an old family tree without citations and I have not found anything else about her in my searches. According to my tree she had siblings Hephzibah (b 1768), Nebusta (b 1770) and Jabez John (1773) all unsubstantiated. They would have been born in Cornwall I believe.
The supposed father, Jabez Carter Hornblower remarried after the death of Mary (c. 1781 I think) to Ann Hanbury in 1875, going on to have 4 more children, Annetta Hanbury Hornblower, Eliza Hanbury Hornblower, Jemima Hanbury Hornbloser and Jabez Hanbury Hornblower.
I wonder, if my Keziah and yours were the same person.
Thanks if you can help
Julia
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Hi Julia
'Your' Keziah looks about the right age, but unfortunately,none of your family names that you mention appear in my family, at least not yet anyway!
It is of course possible that there is a connection as, to date, I have not been able to find anything about Keziah Gray, nee Hornblower's family. If anything comes up, I will let you know. Regards, Cynfran
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Thanks very much.
I have made no headway with her or brother Jesse but did make some progress on John Grays children with Jane Gover
Let's hope something turns up
Julia
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Hi Julia
My great grandmother was Ann Maria Hornblower, I have done alot of Hornblower family history happy to share. It was of great interest to me to see that you had the names of the sisters between Kezia and Jabez John I had not been able to find them. Jabez Carter Hornblower was married twice. 1 to Mary John 2 to Anne Hanbury, I have details of all 8 children, Jabez's father was Jonathon his wife Ann Carter they had 13 childeren all named with J. His father Joseph married twice 1 Rebecca Haywood had 5 childeren all with j 2 Mary Bright had 4 childeren 3 with J and Isaac. I have not been able to find a proven line before Joseph and would appreciate any help you could give,
Nebusta.
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Hi Nebusta,
How interesting to hear for you. I am not sure that I have much to offer other than the names from my old family tree which are unsubstantiated. I am not sure when the tree was done but I think around World War I when my German rooted family where trying to establish their English credentials. I have found it to be accurate on all other details so I feel inclined to believe that the details of Hephzibah and Nebusta are correct, there is just a name and dob (probably christening).
I was interested to see you have Joseph Hornblower's wives as Rebecca Haywood and Mary Bright. I had Rebecca Potter and an unknown wife, so thanks. Can you tell me the source of that information?
I also have Joseph's parents as Edmund Hornblower and Mary Carpenter, but with no source substantiation.
I shall have another dig around in that side of my tree and see if anything more turns up
All the best
Julia
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Hi Julia
Thank you for your reply, a lot of my information was obtained from letters beteen the Hornblower family here and in America. The record for Joseph's 1st marriage taken from the Church book 1654-1798 of the Messiah Baptist Church, Cinder Bank, Netherton. also Rebecca's death. His 2nd Marriage to Mary Bright 8 Jun 1731 in Dudley Worcester.
1st marr produced: Jonathon, Josiah, Joseph, Josiah,Joanna
2nd " " Joshua, Jabez, James, Isaac 1744-1818 Isaac had a son Ebenezer Bright Hornblower marr. Martha Della 1802 Their grandchilderen all had Bright as part of their names. Isaac was witness to Joseph's death when 18yrs in 1762 but where the boys were born or he died not known. Many think he died in Bristol, Extensive searches of all Bristol records did not find him.
Many suggestions for Joseph's parents best one for me by P W Dickinson
shows parents George Hornblower and Martha Della 1682 they had 3 sons William, Rutter, Joseph. Not able to prove yet. Thanks again Nebuster