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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Quaxer on Tuesday 16 February 10 00:18 GMT (UK)

Title: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Tuesday 16 February 10 00:18 GMT (UK): Can anybody give the exact locations of the following Terraces etc on the Rathgar Road. The dates given are those entered in The Irish Times newspaper

Nos 1-16 Cambridge Terrace (1859-1873)
Nos.1-2 Malakhoff Terrace (1863-1874)
Nos1-7 Pearmount (1861-1877) probably near No.113
Nos1-4 Star Terrace (1864)

Should any reader walk this Road perhaps they could look for names carved into stonework/brickwork.
Please state the source of knowledge in your reply.

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 17 February 10 08:29 GMT (UK): some details from two directories to start off :

Summary extracted from Thom's 1848 for Rathgar Road. Numbers were not used until later years, but the details might help establish a general layout of the sidestreets and terraces :

from Rathmines southward

A Crescent in progress of building, and a new line of avenue to Harolds Cross
11 houses
Cambridge ave intersects (poss. associated with Cambs. Tce?)
4 houses
Garville Rd to Wynnefield parade intersects
4 houses
Salisbury terrace intersects
10 houses
Pearmount intersects..
2 houses
Elmgrove ave intersects
2 houses

separate listing for 11 houses on Cambridge Ave
separate listing for 8 houses on Pearmount

----------------------------

Thom's 1852

listing for 11 houses on Cambridge Ave
listing for 8 houses on Pearmount

also see below for a c1880 map showing Cambridge Terrace on Rathgar road, just south of the junction with Grosnover Rd.

The full map is available at : South County Dublin c1880 (http://roots.swilson.info/southcountydublinc1880/southcountydublin_c1880.html)

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Thursday 18 February 10 02:17 GMT (UK): Shanew

Just a holding reply to say thank you for your interesting input. It will take me a day or so to digest your information.
You state that numbers were used later in the century after these terraces etc. were built but I have reason to think that Nos. were interchangeable with terrace Nos. and my objective is to match these when possible.

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 18 February 10 08:08 GMT (UK): I have seen cases where the street numbers and terrace numbers continue along a road e.g. 1,2,3,4, TceX 5,6,7,8 (st cont) 9,10,11...and also where the terraces have their own numbers, e.g. 1,2,3,4, Tce Y 1,2,3,4,5,6 (st cont) 5,6,7. I will have a look though further Thom's directories and let you know what I find.

If I'm passing through Rathgar at the weekend, I'll have a quick look and see if any of the old Terrace names remain.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Friday 19 February 10 02:03 GMT (UK): Shanew
Many thanks again for your reply and interest.
Dealing with Cambridge Terrace alone for the moment, I have entries for Nos.1-10 and 16 . I assume that No.16 is an overshoot in that a neighbouring householder although not truly connected with the Terrace has chosen to make an artificial connection. I have seen this before on the South Circular Road near Portobello.
The map you displayed was most useful as it shows a laneway at the City end. This was called Cambridge Lane according to the map supplied with Thoms 1962/3 but there is no reference to that Lane in the main work. Could you ascertain the current street number of the house on the right side of that laneway. The laneway appears to be a reasonable fixed point to start with. Would it help if I supplied some names of occupiers for the Terrace and relevant dates?
Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Friday 19 February 10 02:15 GMT (UK): Shanew

The map you displayed confirmed that Malakoff Terrace was on the same side as Cambridge T. but almost into Rathmines . My records show No.184 as Malakoff Villa and No.185 as Malakoff House. The use of the house names and the Terrace slightly overlapped in 1874. My only problem here is to determine which was No.1 and which was
No.2.
This is but another of many problems I have on this Road but please do not think that I wish to impose upon you.

Many Thanks

Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Friday 19 February 10 13:28 GMT (UK): Since the thread is about Rathgar Road, my great-grand parents, Thomas and Maria Grant, lived at 24 Rathgar Road from about 1890 to 1920. Indeed the 1911 census gives them there.

On the off chance that it might bring me more info from readers of the thread :)

Nice houses in the Rathgar Road !
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 19 February 10 13:49 GMT (UK): Most of the houses on Rathgar Rd are listed as protected structures so probably look much the same as they did in 1911. Some information for you on number 24. It is located on Rathgar Rd between the jct of Charlevlle Rd / Grosvnover Rd and the jct of Grosnover Rd West and Leicester Ave

Thom's listing show the following at the address :

1927
Thomas Grant

1914
Thomas Grant
Charles W. Grant

1894
Major Nangle

In 1894 index there is a Thomas Grant listed with an address at 8 Fontenoy street if that's of any interest.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Friday 19 February 10 13:56 GMT (UK): Shane

Thanks for that. I'll try to follow up the Fontenoy Street, ref. I had them there in 1889, and was not sure when they left

For what it is worth, a photo of 24 Rathgar Road I took last year

(http://www.grantonline.com/grant-family-individuals/grant-thomas-1852/rathgar-road/24-rathgar-rd-01.gif)

From hours of mindless wandering up and down the area, I have the perception that there are still some "Terrace" signs around today along the Rathgar Road, but afraid I cannot give any details
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 19 February 10 13:59 GMT (UK): I'm going to have a look around tomorrow and see if a few of the terrace signs are visible.

I presume the Grant family at that address on the 1939 electoral register are connected ?

re Fontenoy Street... I'll have a look at 1904 later and see it they are still there

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Friday 19 February 10 14:09 GMT (UK): Thanks Shane

The 1939 Grants are indeed connected, and the family left the house in early 1940s
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 19 February 10 17:27 GMT (UK): corisande

1904 Thoms lists an Edward Joseph Mallins esq M.A. (TCD) at the Rathgar address. There's also an entry for

Mr. Thomas Grant, inspector D.M.P., 7 Newbridge Ave

(the same road where my grandparents lived for a while)

8 Fontenoy street has a Mr. William Brewster

If this is the correct person, an 1889 DMP list shows him as Station Sergeant, in Mountjoy station, D division

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Friday 19 February 10 17:59 GMT (UK): Shane

Thanks. That is he - I have his complete police record, its just the houses that I am trying to tie up. I thought that they moved to Rathgar Road before 1904, but only based no notes made by my grandfather before he died (he was Thomas Grant's son)

Small world with Newbridge Av. As this thread is about Rathgar Road, I will not add the photo of Newbridge Av I have on this thread, but you can see them here (http://www.grantonline.com/grant-family-individuals/grant-thomas-1852/thomas-1851.htm) and show my family standing outside 7 Newbridge Av around 1890, and I took a comparison photo last year, place has not changed much, although the glazing bars on the windows have gone over the years.

I was interested in this tread as I too am trying to find out something about the history of Rathgar Rd. and am watching to see what emerges here.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Friday 19 February 10 19:19 GMT (UK): back to Rathgar...

the list below is based on details included in a newsletter of the Rathgar Residents Association (http://www.rathgarresidentsassociation.ie/) in Nov 2008, from details compiled by Fred Dixon in Feb 1984.

As far as I can see from examining Thom's and more recent maps, the numbers start at the west side of the road at the Rathmines end at 1 and continue along that side as far as the Terenure Rd junction. The numbers then continue back down the road from the Highfield Rd junction (at the Presbyterian Church) with number 109 down the east side of the Road to 196.

I will confirm if the current numbering system is the same.

I have scanned some 1848 Thom's details on Rathgar, including some basic history and a street listing at :

Description of Rathgar (http://roots.swilson.info/towns1848/rathgar.html) Street listing page 1 (http://roots.swilson.info/towns1848/img/ratg1.html) page 2 (http://roots.swilson.info/towns1848/img/ratg2.html)

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Saturday 20 February 10 02:36 GMT (UK): Shane

Many thanks for that most useful table. It does not detract from its value to me in that I already deduced some entries from scraps and bits because it confirms some of my deductions. Further I agree about the numbering system which I have already adopted.
I look forward to any further nuggets IF you have the opportunity to walk part of the Road but hope you feel no pressure to do so

Many Thanks

Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Saturday 20 February 10 02:40 GMT (UK): Corisande

Thank you for your input. From the Irish Times from 1859-1901,unfortunately I have only one entry for No.24 Rathgar Road which I give below.

August 20th 1878 an advert. on Page 8 shows that a residue of furniture was for auction.

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 20 February 10 11:13 GMT (UK): I had a look at the lower section of Rathgar Rd this morning, both sides of the road from the Servants' Church down to the Rathmines end, but did not see much in the way of old terrace or house names. Although the separate terrace structures can be detected (as per the table mentioned earlier), I could not see any visible terrace name engravings of the type I have seen on other buildings in Dublin City. A number of the houses, particularly on the west side, seem to have been re-faced, and others have relatively rough-cut corner-stones where the terrace name would, I believe, sometimes be carved.

The only familiar name from our previous discussions was an old house-name engraving on Malakoff Villa, which was located on the east side, near to the location of the terrace on the 1848 map. It seemed to be un-numbered but around 184/185.

I was able to confirm the numbering system - number 2 being on the west side almost opposite the junction with Rathmines Rd upr, and across the road (next to the Garda Station) is number 196.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Saturday 20 February 10 17:49 GMT (UK): Shanew

Thank you for taking the trouble to walk up the Road today. I well remember in childhood cast iron plates bolted to outer wall of terraces especially on the south side.
While the table you provided is of great help, I fear that I'll have to return with more queries for the same road

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 20 February 10 18:00 GMT (UK): There could could be nameplates on the other sections of the road... I walked just the lower section. I didn't see any of the name plates of the type you describe. Where you these generally be located ?

The other type of name-plates I've seem, the carved type, are usually at the left or right edge of the terrace, and towards the top. This was area of the buildings I was concentrating on, so might have missed something located in a different position.

I'll keep an eye out whenever I'm passing to see if I can see any of these.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Sunday 21 February 10 01:42 GMT (UK): Shane

I appreciate your interest and efforts. The cast iron nameplates(weathered) were usually on either end of a terrace(as you state midway between the first and second floor levels. Another place for names could be the
capping stones for gate posts etc.or perhaps carved into any stonework forming part of the facing of the house.

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Sunday 21 February 10 01:54 GMT (UK): Further houses on Rathgar Road which I am trying to identify with relevant dates
Albany Cottage (1877-84) Alton Lodge (1872) Carlisle House (1859) Malvern (1864)
Menloe (1862-75) Mona Cottage (1867) Myrtle Lodge (1860-1868) Percy Lodge (1860)
Prospect Lodge (1865) Rath Cottage (1860) Salisbury 1865-1887
1 Clapham Villas (1885) 3 Garfield Terrace (1899) St.Annes Villas (1872-1874)

Any body who can identify these with modern numbers, I would be pleased to hear from.

Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 04 April 10 13:46 BST (UK): I had a look at the other section of Rathgar Rd, (from the Three Patrons to the Presbyterian Church) but nothing much to report I'm afraid. I saw some evidence of house names engraved on gate pillars - but all except one were too badly weathered to read anything. A number of end-of-terrace houses had areas that looked like they might have contained terrace or house names at some point but these were generally blanked over, or contained modern road numbers.

Quite a few houses appear to have have major repair work (including repointing), and many of the old gate pillars are modern or have recent repairs.

These are the details I found..mostly the modern names I saw that could relate to older terrace or house names :

from 3 Patrons to top of Rathgar Rd
52 Everleigh Hse - on badly weathered gate-pillar engraving
59 Roebuck Hse
62/63 Houses have large crests on brickwork over the hall doors, but no wording evident
71-75 Garville Terrace - modern buildings
76 evidence of gate pillar name - but very badly weathered/unreadable
(from 90 onwards to the shops are all modern buildings)

from Presbyterian Church to Frankfort Ave
111 Grenville - modern nameplate
124 Auburn Villas - set back from the road
125 Cranford - set back from the road
126 Albany Hse

Lower section of Rathgar Rd (both sides)
176 Menlough poss. repaired old engraving on gate-pillar
179 Findrum poss. repaired old engraving on gate-pillar
185 Malakoff House - on front brickwork of house

25 Winton[?] damaged painted/repaired gate-pillar
26 Weston - painted on gate-pillar

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: eadaoin on Sunday 04 April 10 15:43 BST (UK): not of interest to Quaxer, perhaps, but adding to the history of Rathgar Road, number 30 was called Richmond House, probably from the 1920s-1960s.
I have a photo of this house when it was for sale in ?1980s, but no access to a scanner at present.
There was a lane beside it, probably leading to what's now Spire view lane -

eadaoin
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Tuesday 06 April 10 00:20 BST (UK): Dear Shane

Many thanks for your last message. It is unfortunate that so much has been eliminated by erosion or renovation work but I suppose that is what time does.. I appreciate the time and effort on your part

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Quaxer on Tuesday 06 April 10 00:23 BST (UK): Eadaoin

Thank you for your message re No.30. The name in fact goes back to the 1870s if not earlier.

Regards Quaxer
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Renshi on Friday 17 September 10 18:00 BST (UK): Hi, I just came across the rootschat by accident, while looking up Winton 25 Rathgar road, and noted the inquiry of ShaneW147. I lived in Winton until I was 5byears old, from 1943 - 1948, it was my grandparents home. It was sold in the late 1950s after the death of my grandmother. I don't know when they bought it, but my guess in the 1930s. I don't know if this is of any interest?
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Friday 17 September 10 18:07 BST (UK): Hi Renshi

Welcome to Rootschat :)

I think the way the numbering in Rathgar Rd goes number 24 is next door.My Great Grandfather, Thomas Grant, lived there for many years till he died in 1940
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Renshi on Sunday 19 September 10 17:17 BST (UK): Hi Corisande, my grandparents were named Jacobson, they owned Jameson Jewellers. I don't remember the neighbours... except I think if the numbering goes up from the Rathmines end, #26 was owned by the McCabes? not sure!

I have lived in Canada since we closed the family business in 1987, but saw Winton for sale many years ago.

thank you for replying, appreciated!
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 17:24 BST (UK): I checked the numbering on the road a while ago.. no. 1 Rathgar road is on the westside of the Rathmines end, and the number continue sequentially up that side of the road past the Esso station towards Rathgar, past the RC church, then cross over the road (abt no. 108) at Rathgar village over to the Presbyterian church side of the road, and run back down the east side past Garville Road to the houses just before the Garda Station, which are number 193 to 195

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Sunday 19 September 10 17:54 BST (UK): So given #24 Rathgar Rd is on the left in my photo, then it is joined on to #23 on the right of the photo.

(http://www.grantonline.com/grant-family-individuals/grant-thomas-1852/rathgar-road/24-rathgar-rd-01.gif)
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 18:04 BST (UK): Thom's 1949 - Rathgar Rd

23 James F. Kent - Ontario Lodge, solicitor
24 Noel Reid
25 Mich. Jameson
26 Mrs. McCabe

Thom's 1958

23 Dr. D. Costello - Ontario Lodge
24 Mrs. A. Shine
25 S.M. Sullivan
26 Mrs. McCabe

p.s. I can arrange a photo of #25 for you if that's of any interest ?

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Renshi on Sunday 19 September 10 18:19 BST (UK): yes, I am sure that #25 which is detached is to the left, and 26 was also detached! I do remember yours adjoined! nice photo! Shane shows in Thoms 1949
#25 Michael Jameson. In fact his name was Michael Jacobson, but in 1908 when he and my grandmother started the business, they, being refugees from eastern Europe, realising Jacobson was not a good idea, being a Jewish name, and as my grandfather enjoyed a wee drop of Jamesons... called their jewellery business Jameson's. One son, my uncle Louis Collins Jacobson, played cricket for Ireland on many occasions, and had an Irish rugby trial.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 18:24 BST (UK): Thom's 1938 shows #25 as Mich. Jacobson

update : same listing in 1927

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Renshi on Sunday 19 September 10 18:34 BST (UK): Thanks, 1938 makes sense. My other uncle, a lawyer, changed his name to Jameson (Noel) I would really appreciate a photo, if it is possible, thank you.... I might be able to impress my Canadian adult children!!!
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 18:43 BST (UK): will arrange a photo of #25 and let you know.. hopefully I should get a chance next weekend

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Sunday 19 September 10 19:18 BST (UK): Quote
realising Jacobson was not a good idea, being a Jewish name

I knew being Protestant was a problem, never though being Jewish was a problem in Dublin!
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: anneb on Sunday 19 September 10 19:50 BST (UK): Does anyone know how long Rathgar Rd is? according to the 1911 census my husband's great-grandfather lived at house no 159 Rathgar rd.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Sunday 19 September 10 19:56 BST (UK): Shane's reply at no.28 on this thread says 195 numbered houses
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 19:59 BST (UK): 159 Rathgar Rd is located on the east side of the road to the north of the junction with Frankfort Road. So across the road from numbers 23/24 and a bit to the south.

The house is named 'La Choza' in the 1938 edition of Thom's.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: anneb on Sunday 19 September 10 20:31 BST (UK): Thank you-that must be the house. The name " La Choza" is familiar. Is Thom's online? My husband's great grandfather died in 1935 so it would be interesting to see if any of the family-the Browns- were still around in 1939.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 20:33 BST (UK): Some city extracts of older Thom's (1850's/60s) are online but not the more recent ones. I have some of the actual directories... I'm checking for other listings for your Browns at the moment

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 20:37 BST (UK): 1914
159 Rathgar Rd, P. Brown, La Choza

1927
159 Rathgar Rd, P. J. Brown, La Choza

1938
159 Rathgar Rd, Mrs. Byrne, La Choza
160 " " , Charles Brown

(all Thom's)

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: anneb on Sunday 19 September 10 20:53 BST (UK): Thank you for looking that up. My husband's great grandfather was Patrick Joseph Brown so he must be the PJ Brown who was there in 1927.

It's interesting to see that there was a Charles Brown at no 160 in 1938-I wonder if he was related to Patirck
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Sunday 19 September 10 20:56 BST (UK): The 1939 electoral register for Dublin city is available online on the Dublin City Library website at www.dublinheritage.ie (Rathgar is right on the edge of the area covered)

I had a quick look but didn't see a listing for Harriett..

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: anneb on Monday 20 September 10 11:28 BST (UK): I'm getting a bit confused now. I knew that the house name "La Choza" seemed familiar but having looked through the information that I have on my husband's family I've discovered that it was another great grandfather, Mark Blake who died at a house called "La Choga" on Rathgar Rd in 1924.

I suspect that "La Choza" and "La Choga" are the same house and that perhaps he was living with the Brown family for some reason.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Monday 20 September 10 14:29 BST (UK): see below for a diagram showing the house numbers on Rathgar Rd.

Based on directory listings and a recent check of the road, this numbering system has been in place since at least the 1870s.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Monday 20 September 10 14:36 BST (UK): Shane

Really useful map, I should have had it when I was trying to find #24 to photograph it.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: anneb on Monday 20 September 10 14:44 BST (UK): Thank you for the map-it's really helpful
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Renshi on Tuesday 21 September 10 13:51 BST (UK): Shanew147, thank you, anytime you have time will be most appreciated!

Corisande, my goodness, you must be very young! Being Jewish in Dublin was a challenge! I went to a Protestant school (Wesley) because High School (also Protestant), where my father was educated had brought in a 'Ban', just like all Catholic schools! it wasn't all onesided... Catholics were threatened with excommunication if they went to Trinity!! Fun times... but I'm showing my age!
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: corisande on Tuesday 21 September 10 14:31 BST (UK): Not that young - my family were Protestant, and left for Belfast (well got pushed out of Dublin) in 1922
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Tuesday 21 September 10 14:38 BST (UK): Being protestant was not a problem in every case - none of mine had any difficulties that I've heard of. I've a mix of RC, Church of Ireland, Church of England & Presbyterian ancestors.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 25 September 10 13:15 BST (UK): Quote from: Renshi on Friday 17 September 10 18:00 BST (UK)
Hi, I just came across the rootschat by accident, while looking up Winton 25 Rathgar road, and noted the inquiry of ShaneW147. I lived in Winton until I was 5byears old, from 1943 - 1948, it was my grandparents home. It was sold in the late 1950s after the death of my grandmother. I don't know when they bought it, but my guess in the 1930s. I don't know if this is of any interest?

see photos below : gate-post and house, 'Winton', #25 Rathgar Road

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Saturday 25 September 10 13:20 BST (UK): Quote from: anneb on Sunday 19 September 10 19:50 BST (UK)
Does anyone know how long Rathgar Rd is? according to the 1911 census my husband's great-grandfather lived at house no 159 Rathgar rd.

see photos below - number over the door, and building number 159 Rathgar Rd...

Some of the building appears to have been renovated, but the bricks in the facing look original.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: anneb on Tuesday 28 September 10 14:41 BST (UK): Thank you for the photos. It's so interesting to see where people lived-looks as if my husbands grandparents were a lot better off than mine!
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: COPPERAS on Tuesday 28 September 10 16:30 BST (UK): Wow....I always wondered about this house as my paternal Grandfather Patrick Joseph Brown lived here with his wife Harriet and their children.....

David Brown
Kansas
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Muizies on Wednesday 14 September 11 20:22 BST (UK): My Gt Gt grandfather, Hugh Carmichael, was, I believe, the architect for Pearlmount Terrace, Rathgar Road. His daughter, who came to South Africa, was born there. However, I still can't find the houses on Google....are they still there?
PS. Still looking for info on his wife Caroline Wright.....if anyone should have some wild and crazy revelations. I have a photo of her and her name and that's all!
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: shanew147 on Wednesday 14 September 11 22:27 BST (UK): Pear Mount (sometimes Pearmount or Pearlmount) consisted of numbers 116 to 123 Rathgar Road and is located on the section close to the Presbyterian Church at the southern end of the road.

The block now consists of a split terrace of houses - see the google street view : centre of Pearmount (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=rathgar+road&hl=en&ll=53.313935,-6.272791&spn=0.000809,0.002476&sll=53.344104,-6.267494&sspn=0.409934,1.267548&vpsrc=6&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=53.314014,-6.272727&panoid=oCzKDv1srgz6n9yc8DFTag&cbp=12,161.33,,0,0)

This initial view above is looking at the gap between 119 and 120.

Shane
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Revolution on Sunday 12 July 15 02:25 BST (UK): Hi

My ancestor named McGaveston lived in Wallingford, Rathgar Road. Is anyone able to tell me if it still exists? This directory is circa 1848 (edit)
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: dathai on Sunday 12 July 15 06:24 BST (UK): who better to answer your question than a postman
http://www.goldenpages.ie/an-post-dublin-D6/12/
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Revolution on Sunday 12 July 15 06:25 BST (UK): Hi Dathai

The link didnt work for me

Regards
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: dathai on Sunday 12 July 15 06:32 BST (UK): (01) 4972317 Rathmines Post Office An Post
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Revolution on Sunday 12 July 15 09:18 BST (UK): For 1848?
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: dathai on Sunday 12 July 15 10:41 BST (UK): quote ''can anyone tell me if it still exists''
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 10:43 BST (UK): Hi There

I am attaching a google maps that will bring you to Auburn Avenue which is off Rathgar Road.

Wallingford's 'neighbours' are Auburn Villas which is part of this Auburn Avenue.

Anyway, there are not many houses on the little avenue.

If you use the google maps you can 'walk' along this little avenue.

As Dathai has indicated ~ the Rathmines Post Office should be able to tell you if the house name Wallingford is still attached / used in relation to one of these houses.

Now the only thing that worries me that one side has a few second world war type houses ~ possible there were older houses there at some point that were pulled down, hopefully not. It may have just been land that was built on in the 1930's or 1940's.

Anyway, you're getting close.

Hopefully the post office will be able to help !

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 11:24 BST (UK): 1849 a family called Stephenson seems to have been living at Wallingford !

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 11:27 BST (UK): GV show a John Gaveston ~ 68 Rathgar Road ~ not sure that it would be an actual house number though ~ moreso the 68th house evaluated.

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 11:30 BST (UK): This version lists him at Bellville Avenue, again just off Rathgar Road.

Do you think this is the same person ?

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 11:30 BST (UK): Sorry,

Link.

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/dublin/rathfarnham.htm

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 11:34 BST (UK): I can't get down Bellville Avenue.

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.315582,-6.271599,3a,15y,180h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVWXHcsi46g6iMd61ml7FFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Revolution on Sunday 12 July 15 13:13 BST (UK): Hi Tara

Thank you for the info.

From what I can determine Wallingford was rented by my ancestor John Wynn McGaveston. He died after returning from India where he worked as a surgeon. He was sponsored by Charles William-Wynn to be a surgeon and John McGaveston named one of his children Charles Wynn McGaveston. John died in 1846 and his wife sailed to India to sort out his estate. After returning to Ireland Margaret McGaveston (nee Page) then sailed to New Zealand in 1850 with Robert John Lloyd traveling as his wife but they did not get married until they landed in New Zealand.

We dont know how John and his family knew Charles Williams-Wynne. Our family stories are interesting but we need some facts before we can ground them.

What year is the GV?

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/dublin/rathfarnham.htm

Johns brother Nicholas McGaveston appears to have been living in Rathgar at one point and later Nicholas wife.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 13:56 BST (UK): The GV on the Rathgar Road was done in 1849.

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 14:02 BST (UK): An article from 1846 !

I am presuming when the article says 'apply to Wallingford' that the homes description applies to is for Wallingford.

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: conahy calling on Sunday 12 July 15 14:05 BST (UK): http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

Link for G.V.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 14:07 BST (UK): You might already have this.

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 12 July 15 14:14 BST (UK): Quote from: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 11:24 BST (UK)
1849 a family called Stephenson seems to have been living at Wallingford !

Tara

http://www.trulock.info/?id=539
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: hallmark on Sunday 12 July 15 14:16 BST (UK): Last Will and Testament of John Wynn McGaveston
Dated: 23 March 1846
In God’s name Amen
This is the last Will and Testament of one John McGaveston, Surgeon, late in the service of the
East India Company being at present of sound mind and residing on Rathgar Road, County Dublin.
I am the owner of property in India at present invested in Bengal Government Securities amounting
to between sixty and seventy thousand Rupees which is in the charge of the Government Agent at
Calcutta the above amount with all interest accruing thereon I will and bequeath to my two sons
John Cornwall Gaveston and Charles Wynn Gaveston share and share alike to be possessed by
them at whatever time their Mother may think proper not however exceeding their respective ages
of twenty one years and I appoint my Wife Margaret McGaveston sole trustee of the above funds.
I have also a registered claim on the effects of the late Messrs Alexander and Co. Calcutta
amounting to between seven and eight thousand Rupees and Messrs Cockerell and Co. of
Calcutta hold a power of Attorney from me to receive dividends from the same the whole remaining
claim I will and bequeath to my Wife Margaret and my children’s use.
I also bequeath to my Wife Margaret McGaveston all pay pension on Medical retiring annuity due
to me up to the day of my death also my interest in my present dwelling house also all the furniture
and other property belonging to me on the premises to be equally divided between my children at
her death or such other time as she may think fit.
Whatever claims I may have on any part of the property of her late Father Mr Theophilus Page I
will and bequeath to my Wife Margaret during her life to be equally divided between my children at
her death in the event of the death of either of any sons before attaining the age of twenty one
years the survivor to become sole heir.
I nominate and appoint my Wife Margaret McGaveston executrix and administratrix of this Will and
Testament.
I also will and bequeath to my Wife Margaret McGaveston two hundred pounds three and a quarter
percent stock lately purchased for her own and the children’s use as well all cash in hand or at my
Bankers at the time of my death.
I am a married subscriber to the Bengal Military Fund in the Rank of Major and my Widow will be
entitled to a full annuity from the same from the date of my death. I am also subscriber to the
Bengal Military Orphan Society and I hope all justice will be done to my children should it hereafter
appear that their case ought to be benefited by that institution.
Wallingford, Rathgar, County Dublin
This twenty third day of March 1846
John McGaveston Testator
Signed published and declared by the Testator John McGaveston as and for his last Will and
Testament in the presence of us present at the same time who in his presence and at his request
have subscribed our names as Witnessed:
Robert F Murphy Surgeon
Ellen Smythe
Last Will and Testament of John Wynn McGaveston
Codicil the first
I nominate and appoint my Brother Mr Nicholas McGaveston and his wife Mrs Catherine
McGaveston Joint Trustees with my wife Margaret McGaveston of the fund at present invested in
Bengal Government Securities for the benefit and use of my two sons John Cornwall and Charles
Wynn McGaveston.
John McGaveston Testator
The Testator has signed this Codicil in our presence and we have signed it as Witnesses in the
presence of each other this 30th day of March 1846.
Robert F Murphy
Ellen Smythe
The last Will and Testament and Codicil of John McGaveston of Wallingford, Rathgar in the County
of Dublin Surgeon late of the Honourable East India Company deceased (having granted so forth)
were proved in Common form of law and probate thereof granted by the most Rev. John George
and so forth unto Margaret McGaveston of same place widow deceased the sole Executrix of said
Will and Codicil she being first sworn personally saving and so forth dated the Eighteenth day of
June 1846.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Sunday 12 July 15 14:20 BST (UK): Wallingford in 1847

Stephenson at the address again !

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Revolution on Monday 13 July 15 09:57 BST (UK): Hi Tara

Is it possible to get a larger and higher res image of the advertisement to let out Wallingford. I hadnt seen that before. What a great little piece of history. Also the Stephenson one.

In 1883 Nicholas McGaveston died at 5 Brighton Road, Rathgar, Dublin, Ireland. His Will says he was formerly of Wallingford, Rathgar but late of Brighton Road. Margaret Hilton his niece a spinster was the sole executrix.

Margaretta Theodosia Stephenson is my first cousin 5 times removed. The Trulock website has some very good info. Ive been in contact with the owner and together we have pieced together some of the family history but those family lines are incredibly difficult with missing pieces of the puzzle everywhere - thanks in part to the absence of records. I probably didnt click that those Stephensons were my Stephensons

Thanks Hallmark - I have the original or Johns will as well. fascinating reading for us and Im glad that its one of the few that survived.

Johns son John wrote to his family later in his life asking where his fathers inheritance went but no one was able to tell him. John Jrs mother was meant to get 300 pounds per year from the East India Company which Im assuming stopped when she remarried. It seems that investing in India was easy but getting your money back wasnt so that she effectively got very little out of the sale of the Indian lands and shares.

Thanks Dathai. Ill try emailing the post office first.

Its a huge shame that all the earlier families seems to know each other quite well despite not having modern technology but their ancestors are left to piece it all together because it wasnt recorded.
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: taramcdsmall on Monday 13 July 15 11:13 BST (UK): Hi There

I'm afraid that's the best images that I can get.

If you go to findmypast.ie (€10 one month sub) and go to their newspaper section ~ you will find them there ~ you may have better luck yourself.

The site also has newspaper mentions of the Charles Wynne chap that you mentioned ~ as they are your family you will have more time to devote to trawling through and seeing can you get any more info from them.

irishnewspaperarchives (€10 24 hour sub) has a more extensive range of old newspapers so you may have more luck there BUT you need to have a free 24 hours to devote to getting your value from this sub.

Best Of Luck

Tara
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Revolution on Thursday 23 July 15 14:02 BST (UK): Great Ive got them thanks
Title: Re: Rathgar Road (then ) Co.Dublin
Post by: Chrismoran on Saturday 09 November 24 23:09 GMT (UK): Hi folks, I am looking to discover more about the Dwyer family of 43 Rathgar Road from the 1920s to early 1960s.

This was the latter family home of James Dwyer a publican of 2-5 Rathgar Road. The Dwyers includes Canon Joseph Dwyer of Drumcondra, Father Michael Dwyer, Sr. Patricia Dwyer of Madrid, Eva, Laura and Madeleine Dwyer, who was last to reside at 43.

Any reminisces advice or info would be greatly appreciated.

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