RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cumberland Lookup Requests => Cumberland => England => Cumberland Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Quinlyn on Monday 15 February 10 12:00 GMT (UK)
-
Hello. I am in the process of constructing a family chart and wondered if anyone would have any information on Jonathan Dawson (born in 1848) and Hannah Sumpton (born in 1855). I think they were born in the Egremont/Whitehaven part of Cumberland. Jonathan's father was Joseph Dawson (born in 1799). I do not know his mother's name at all. Hannah's father was John Sumpton (born c1791) and her mother was Mary Williamson (dates of birth and death unknown). I am also seeking some early information on Jonathan and Hannah's daughter: May (who married Joseph McNeal). I believe that Jonathan and Hannah + family, moved to South Moor, near Stanley, in County Durham. Please would anyone be able to provide me with Hannah and Jonathan's dates of death?
This is my first topic posting, so I hope that I have given enough information. Thank you. :D
Michael
-
Hello MIchael.
Welcome to Rootschat.
The IGI have a record of Hannah Elizabeth Sumpton born at Hensingham. 22 Nov 1857 to John & Mary.
There was also Hannah born at Egremont in 1855 to John Sumpton and Mary Jackson but she died in 1862.
Either of these links will give you the Egremont Cemetery Database where you will find the burial information for Jonathans Father/Mother and possibly others.
http://www.cultrans.com/egremont-cemetery.html
http://www.jimpatterson.co.uk/egremont/search.htm
-
Hello Michael and welcome to rootschat.
Here is Jonathan in 1851- you don't seem to have this info:
1851 HO107; Piece: 2437; Folio: 397; Page: 26
East Side of main Street Egremont
Joseph Dawson 52 yrs Labourer at Lime works b Cumberland Ulpha
Mary Dawson 40yrs
John Dawson 15 yrs Stone Breaker
Joseph Dawson 13 yrs Stone Breaker
Mary Dawson 11 yrs
George Dawson 8 yrs
Jonathan Dawson 3 yrs
Hannah Dawson 1 yr
all born Egremont except Joseph snr
best wishes
heywood
-
In 1861 and 1871, Jonathan still at home with Joseph and Mary in Egremont.
If you need this info please post.
-
Hi Michael
May I ask what relation Jonathon and Mary are to you, as they are not on my tree [yet] but it appears that everyone from Ulpha will be at some point [eventually].
Regards
Half Pint
-
Think Michael has got all the census info on his anc..try tree Heywood.
-
Thanks-that saves me a job :D
It's just that I thought I read that he didn't know who mum was :-\
Will leave it then.
cheers
heywood
-
I think the missing census is the 1841 or the marriage details ;D
-
no worries but just to be pedantic there is a difference between "I do not know his mother's name at all" and Mary ;D
1841 Joseph and Mary are 'Dowson' with other children too.
-
Hello Michael,
Your Joseph Dawson 1799 could be the one listed on the IGI as born Seathwaite - 1 st April 1798 to William Dawson and Mary. The 1861 census says born Seathwaite as well.
Ulpha/Corney and Seathwaite are not far apart and Seathwaite comes under Lancashire rather than Cumberland. This was the case with one of my own rellies. ;D
-
Excellent Heywood. Does'nt throw up any more clues, except maybe an extra son William. To much to hope the in-laws lived with them !!! (That would be to easy) All born in the county.
Makes looking for the marriage a few years earlier to. ;D
-
Thank you Dettori28, Half Pint and Heywood for all of that information. I was very nervous about putting my first post on here, because I wasn't even sure how to go about it (technically). I had to read through the instructions this morning. I am so pleased that I did. Your response has been amazing! I meant to ask if you think I should have put some of this information on the Durham forum (i.e. about Hannah's and Jonathan's death details). I also should have clarified that I didn't know Jonathan's mother's maiden name.
Thank you so much for your welcome and great response. It's very heartwarming to know that there are people 'out there' that strive to help others they don't even know.
Your research and time have both been appreciated.
Michael
PS. Half Pint: In answer to your question, Jonathan and Hannah were my great great grandparents. Their daughter May was my great grandmother. Are we related?
-
It's a pleasure Michael.
It looks as though you may have to spend a bit of money on a birth certificate to find Mary's maiden name-- it will be worth it though.
good luck
heywood
-
Michael.
Can I just clarify. You are related to "May" - do you mean Mary. Its just I can't see a May listed on any of the census but I could be going "cuckoo" today !!!
Sorry I am "cuckoo" - its Jonathan and Hannah's daughter that is May. My mistake - sorry.
-
Hi Dettori28,
Yes, I am related to May Dawson (who was the daughter of Jonathan and Hannah). May married a Joseph McNeal in 1914 after the family had moved to the South Moor area of County Durham. I know May's details, but nothing further about her parents. She was born in 1896. I have to confess that I know nothing about the census really. I am pleased and grateful that you have done that part for me. It all sounds rather technical. My friend Jennifer is completing a chart for me as a gift, and we are just needing to fill-in some of the gaps on our chart. There's rather more gaps than I first thought... I have bought dozens of certificates to find out the exact details, but the problem is finding the information to source the certificate. That is where you have all assisted me...
You have all been marvellous!
Thanks once more...
Michael
-
Dettori,
she is in 1901 census as 'Danson' with mother in Cleator.
heywood
-
Any gaps, please ask Michael - only to pleased to help. I was up until 4 a.m. this morning helping a lady on the USA board - it was all worth it in the end, between us we have gone through 20,000 scans and finally came up with the marriage we wanted !!!
-
I have got to admire your dedication - wading through 20,000 scans! That really is 'help' with a capital 'H'. I will work out my 'gaps' later and ask you for your help (if you are sure you don't mind).
I think people like yourselves are worth your weight in gold!
Michael
-
Heywood worked his magic with the spelling manipulations again. Great find.
Will be back later. ;D
-
Hi Michael and welcome, found Jonathan in 1901 census in Oxhill Beamish co Durham age 53
at 5 Jubilee Terrace as a boarder with his son Jonathan also.His occupation is given as shifter coal pit.No sign of Hannah although he is listed as married and not a widower.
I also found 2 deaths which could be his,one in Lanchester co Durham in Jan Feb Mar 1921 10a 485
or Fylde Lancashire Apr May June 1930 8e 759.
Only found one birth reg for him in Whitehaven (a bit late) 1851 Jan Feb Mar vol 25 p 183.
Two possible marriages for him in Whitehaven, both 1873 Jan Feb Mar 10b857 or Apr May June 10b 1065
Hope this is of some help.
Best wishes Jubed
-
In 1911 census, Jonathan and Hannah are in Lanchester registration district.
Possible death:
1921 Lanchester Volume 10a pg 485
Jonathan Dawson 73 yrs - fits with birth
but nothing for Hannah :-\ in Durham area.
I wonder did she go to live elsewhere with a family member or remarry? If she outlived Jonathan she would be getting on a bit to remarry but would be possible ;)
-
Personal Message Sent with baptism details. Kilnbank rings a bell somewhere.
-
Thanks everybody for all of your hard work. I am honestly overwhelmed with the response.
Jubed: Oxhill is close to South Moor, so that is definitely accurate. Lanchester is the area that seems to cover that area for births, marriages and death, so that has got to be the right one. I will have my friend order that for me and I will let you know. I will also get the wedding certificates.
Heywood: Thanks for all of your hard work. I wonder if Hannah just stayed at home? You and Jubed seem to have found the same death, so that has got to be right. You did well with guessing that their names might have been spelled incorrectly. Thanks too for all of your hard work.
Dettori28. Thanks for your personal message - I have replied to you with thanks.
You all deserve medals...
Michael
-
Hi Michael,
glad that all is going well - as has already been said- just post for any help you need. I can only to do census searches to 1901 really.
I have looked at death indexes for Hannah in Durham (anywhere) but nothing comes up for one with a similar approximate date of birth.
Are there any family members left who may have an idea what happened to her?
I would send for that death certificate too - they are a bit hit and miss- cause of death/place etc but the informant may be of help- could be Hannah.
heywood :D
-
Hi Heywood,
Thanks for looking for Hannah. It is a bit of a mystery where she went to. We have discovered her date of birth: October 1855 (in the Whitehaven area). We still don't know Jonathan's date of birth. It was mentioned, earlier, that he could have been born in 1851, but with the census information that you found he was already born and three years of age, so it can't be that. I wonder if Seathwaite and Whitehaven are under different areas (not sure if Dettori28 mentioned this before). I will certainly send off for the marriage and death certificates and hopefully we will find Jonathan's date of birth and his mother's maiden name at some point.
Thanks also for the offer of helping us with further research. I will certainly take you up on that at some point. Thanks for the time and effort that you have put in to doing this research today. I think you have all been wonderful...
Best wishes to you,
Michael
-
Hi Michael,
have you seen the birth for June quarter 1847 Whitehaven 20 pg 157?
On Free BMD it is listed as *n Dawson because the image is so poor - illegible almost but a note has been added that it is probably Jonathan.
Perhaps a query might be answered from the registrars' office before ordering the certificate - you never know
http://www.bmd-certificates.co.uk/registry/whitehaven.html
heywood
-
Hi Michael,
have you seen the birth for June quarter 1847 Whitehaven 20 pg 157?
On Free BMD it is listed as *n Dawson because the image is so poor - illegible almost but a note has been added that it is probably Jonathan.
Cumberland (including Whitehaven) was Volume 25
-
Yes Geoff, I can see that other Whitehaven ones are Vol 25. :-\
However, I think it's worth a try- if the name can't be read, then the volume number may be equally unreadable.
On the other hand, the local registrars' office would hopefully have the original entry and, as Michael also has the parents' names, they may be able to confirm/eliminate this birth.
Michael, I think the reference given wouldn't be of any use anyway as that is a GRO reference, if you were to apply locally.
heywood
-
I've had another look and it does look to be Vol XX which of course would not be Whitehaven. (Thanks Geoff).
It's really very difficult to read but someone somewhere thought it said Jonathan ;D
-
Hmmm.....
Vol 20 was Lancs, and a number around 157 suggests it would be in Ashton district in that quarter. The image certainly doesn't say Ashton does it?
Whitehaven page numbers in that quarter would include 157.
As for the name ...
there appears to be a string of Johns higher up the page
then four John Xxxxxs
then Jonathan
then ...... <<<<<<<<<
then Jonathan
-
Thanks for that further information Geoff and Heywood.
I have e-mailed Whitehaven Registry Office (thanks also for the link) and asked them about June quarter 1847 Whitehaven 20 pg 157, with regard to Jonathan's birth and have also enquired about the two marriage dates Jan/Feb/Mar 10b 857 and Apr/May/June 10b 1065 for the year 1873, as given by Jubed. I have asked them to have a look at these for me - if possible.
I will keep you posted. Thanks,
Michael
-
That's good- the worst situation would be to say 'No' and ask for the fee but with that very poor image they may be kind enough to check.
:D
-
Hi Dettori 28, Heywood, Jubed and Geoff,
Just to keep you informed; I ordered the possible birth and death certificates for Jonathan Dawson. The death certificate was correct and Jonathan Dawson did die in March 1921. Thanks for finding that for me. However, I tried to order the birth certificates from Whitehaven RO from the website, but my e-mails bounced back several times. I also rang and left a message, which was not returned. In the end, I ordered the certificate from the GRO in March and am still awaiting it. It has been several weeks now since it was ordered so there is obviously a problem, as all the others I have ordered have arrived. I have e-mailed them to find out what the problem is...
I will keep you informed, but I am thinking that I will have to order one of Jonathan's sibling's birth certificates to see who the mother was.
I didn't want you to think I had forgotten all of your help and not informed you of my progress.
Best wishes and kind regards,
Michael
-
Hello Michael,
Hope all is well. Sorry to hear you are still having trouble with Jonathan's birth cert, perhaps getting one for one of the other children is going to be your better, quicker option after all.
Regards
;D ;D ;D
-
Hello Michael,
thanks for the update. GRO must be busy due to the demand with the increase so hopefully that is all that is the problem.
I do hope all works out well.
Best wishes and keep us informed.
heywood
-
Hi Michael, thanks for getting back to us.Glad we were correct with the death details.Hope that they soon get back to you with the birth info and you don't have to send for more certificates.
Good luck with all your research Julie
-
Hello again Dettori 28, Julie, Heywood and Geoff.
Good news! The birth certificate arrived today and it is the right one. There must have been a problem with it, as it has taken so long to get to me (the others I ordered arrived within a week). So you were all correct. Jonathan Dawson was born in early June 1847 to parents Joseph Dawson and Mary Lucas (so that was right too). I have got the marriage date of the family search website: 13 June 1832 in Haile, Cumberland. That's quite a few pieces of my 'jigsaw' complete - thanks to you all.
Thanks again for all of your help - you have been terrific!
Kind regards and best wishes,
Michael
-
Hi Michael,
that's great news - you must be thrilled!.
I am really pleased as will the others be, I'm sure :D
heywood
-
Hi Heywood,
Thanks for that reply - you have been terrific.
I have tried to put 'Completed' on this post, as requested, but it didn't work. I haven't quite figured out how to do it.
I will try again later...
Bye for now and thank you so much again.
Michael
-
Hello Michael,
They say patience is a virtue and that patience has now been rewarded with the answer you most wanted to hear. I am absolutely delighted the good news. Hope the rest of your research is going well.
Regards.
Sandra
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Hi Michael,sorry I've just seen your last post. That's great news, all the best with your future research
Best wishes Julie
-
Hi Sandra and Julie,
Thanks for your congratulations. Thanks also for your best wishes with regard to future research. There are still a few ancestors that I am finding difficult to 'track down', so it would be good to think our paths may cross again.
Thanks again for all of your help and best wishes to you both.
Best wishes,
Michael
-
Hi Michael,
May be too late to be of use to you, but I'm a descendant of Jonathan and Hannah and have put together profiles (with sources) for them on Wikitree: Jonathan is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Dawson-6453 and Hannah is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Sumpton-9. Hopefully there might be some info that's still new to you - and please let me know if you've got stuff about them that's not present.
Cheers,
Andy