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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: alli_burnie on Saturday 13 February 10 07:10 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
I am ahunting the marriage record of Anders Gustaf Carlsson to a Johanna. Anders migrated from Sweden to the UK (along with his father, mother and siblings) at the age of 10.
His son, Franz Carlsson, then turns up in Australia, marries Elizabeth Davis (in 1883), with whom he then becomes my partner's g. g. grandfather.
I wonder what happened between the events of Anders migration to the UK and Franz then marrying Elizabeth in Australia?
I am hoping to find:
- Franz' birth and migration record (I assume in the UK?)
- Anders' marriage record to Johanna
- Johanna's surname
None of these details or records have been readily forthcoming from any of my searches. Any advice much appreciated.
Many thanks,
Alli
Moderator Comment: Duplicate Post - to avoid any duplication of efforts please see
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,437336.0.html
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Hi Alli,
I see from his immigration oops edit naturalisation papers he was
Frank Gustoff CARLSSON of MacQuarie Street Mortdale a native of Stockholm Sweden is aged 51 years, a wharf labourer who arrived in the State of NSW aboard the FREDERICK BASSEL in 1882 and has resided in the State for 20 years and intends to continue to reside therein
application made 29 Sep 1903
entered on record 2 Oct 1903
Cheers Kris :)
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In the 1884 Sands Directory he is listed as a Master Mariner of Robertson Street
1886 2 Robertson Lane
1888 he is at 224 Kent Street No Occ Listed
1889 224 Kent Street - Stevedore (= dock Lab)
later at MacQuarie St
Cheers Kris :)
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The FREDERICK BASSIL arrived in Sydney on the 4 Dec 1882 travelling from the port of Kiapara (NZ) under Master Best. I do not see Frank listed. The ship arrived in Sydney 1880, 1882, twice in 1883, twice 1885. Looks like always under Master BEST.
Cheers Kris :)
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There is a seaman arriving a couple of times but certainly not a captain and he seems a bit younger than the naturalisation papers suggest. (But then again I wouldn't think a Master Mariner would end up a dock lab either)
2 Dec 1880 aboard the SOPHIA listed as Frans CARLSON aged 23 an AB from Finland
24 July 1881 aboard the CIMBA listed as Frank CARLSON aged 23 an AB from (Oscanweed)? Sweden
Cheers Kris :)
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Wow - this is great information!
Many thanks to everyone (including moderator for streamlining my request).
Kris - It seems to be the right Franz Gustaff. Can I ask what collection you are able to identify this information from - particularly his immigration papers?
Franz's death certificate states his father's name was Anders and mother was Johanna. It seems that Franz lived to the ripe old age of 77 apparently! His death certificate is dated 1929.
It seems strange that Frank stated to be a native of Sweden, when his father migrated from there in 1863 (supposedly). These dates are seeming a little off now - I dont think the Anders I have (born 1863) is the right one... how could his son be old enough to migrate to australia as a mariner 20 years later?
Anders must have been born closer to 1830-ish I think now.
I'm always fascinated when others can find information I havnt been able to! I've tried so many resources.
Many thanks - Im now a rootschat convert for sure.
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Hi there,
Welcome to Rchat....
The Sydney Morning Herald of Wednesday 25 April 1883 notes the marriage on 20 April 1883, of Frank A Carlsson of Sweden to E M Davis second daughter of the late W T Davis, tailor of Bathurst, and requests that the Bathurst papers please copy.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/13533478
That would indicate that Frank must have been in Sydney NSW by 20 April 1883 for his own wedding at Christ Church by the Rev Frederick Garnsey (not sure if I've read the surname accurately for the Rev'd). ..... Christ Church .... may well be Christ Church St Lawrence, near Central Railway Station, Sydney.
Cheers, JM
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Other newspaper items as well
Funeral notices for Frank
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16598156?searchTerm=frank+carlsson
and Elizabeth
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/17297764?searchTerm=frank+carlsson
Will mentioned
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16606973?searchTerm=carlsson
Cheers Kris :)
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Sorry Alli,
I have been trying this from every direction I can think of and I just can't find any sign of this family in England. Perhaps they were only in England for a short time and returned to Sweden. :-\
At marriage he was listed in the newspaper article as "of Sweden" which really does not sound like someone who had lived in England since he was a child.
I found another possibility in a sailor 2nd mate aboard the EIDERN aged 24 in 1880. You may find others
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/
Cheers Kris :)
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SHIPS IN PORT IN SUNDERLAND, CO. DURHAM 1881
Vessel - Express
Anders Gustav CARLSSON married, aged 41, birthplace Westland, Sweden. Captain of ship.
I guess you need to discover whether this is a common Swedish name.
Jamjar
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Kris - thanks so much for your efforts. It has helped - I've worked out I must of had the wrong Anders to start with - which is good for cleaning up my information! And it seems he was a mariner - didn't know that!
I've also discovered another resource - the NLA newspapers database is brilliant and has already helped with other information.
Thanks for the help e.one.
Sorry Alli,
I have been trying this from every direction I can think of and I just can't find any sign of this family in England. Perhaps they were only in England for a short time and returned to Sweden. :-\
At marriage he was listed in the newspaper article as "of Sweden" which really does not sound like someone who had lived in England since he was a child.
I found another possibility in a sailor 2nd mate aboard the EIDERN aged 24 in 1880. You may find others
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/
Cheers Kris :)
K
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Yes unfortunately it really seems to be common Janice and a lot of them seem to be sailors too.
Just googling Anders Gustav/Gustaf CARLSSON brings up so many pages of hits. (without even looking for variants) ::)
I just can't put anything together that looks like Frans and his family in England and that "of Sweden" in the marriage clipping just makes me more suspicious that they had not been living in England.
Cheers Kris :)
Yes the newspapers are brilliant Alli - you will have a ball hunting. ;D
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Hi there,
I had the thought that perhaps ... sailed from Sweden and transited to a different vessel at English Port... I can find info on NSW 1903 roll, perhaps there's Anders C with Frank... fingers crossed they were still at Macquarie St Mortdale etc.
Back shortly,
Edit to add ... Err, of course, his naturalisation papers must have been prepared after (or because of) enrolment requirements, but ... here's Elizabeth Mary Carlsson Macquarie-place, Mortdale, domestic duties... (NSW Electoral Roll 1903, Division of Lang, Polling place Oatley ... ... not sighted any others with that surname.
Cheers, JM
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I am keen to chat with you regarding Franz Carlsson's wife Elizabeth Mary. Pls contact me
Cassandra
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Hi Clare 16, I just saw this old post! Franz Carlsson and Elizabeth Davis were my great grandparents. What do you need to know about Eliizabeth? I'm happy to help.
Cheers,
Vanessa
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Hi Allie_burnie,
I just saw this old post regarding my greatgrandparents Franz Carlsson and Elizabetth M Davis. Franz was definitely born in Sweden since a member of the family has obtained his birth certificate. It is in Swedish of course and we are waiting to have the document translated.
I also found Franz's naturlisation papers which listed the Frederick Bassil as his arrival ship in Australia, but I also could find no record of him on any of these voyages, although the June records appear to be missing. Franz was coming and going between NSW and the colonies as well as overseas prior to 1882 though. We have some references provided to him by previous employers (ie ships captains) prior to this. He obtained his bride to be's weddding ring in Adelaide on one of those trips. Have you had any further luck with your research? Cheers, Vanessa
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Hi Vanessa and welcome to RootsChat.
If you have the document and are still waiting for a translation I can do that if you want.
Ian
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SHIPS IN PORT IN SUNDERLAND, CO. DURHAM 1881
Vessel - Express
Anders Gustav CARLSSON married, aged 41, birthplace Westland, Sweden. Captain of ship.
I guess you need to discover whether this is a common Swedish name.
Jamjar
Here is a record of the same A.G. Carlsson as captain of the Express from the Swedish seamen database: