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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Steven1314 on Friday 12 February 10 20:26 GMT (UK)
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Hi tracing another branch of my tree and have got stuck.
Trying to trace some more information on William Hillicks. I have him on the 1871 census in Govan in Partick in Glasgow. On 10/10/1871 he marries a Bessy Kerr but she must die early because in 1876 he marries a Jane Stevenson. I have him on the 1881 census and 1891 census and 1901 census and his death is recorded as 2/11/1920 aged 79. I therefore place his birth at circa 1840. His parents are listed as James Hillicks and Ann Matthews.
However the trail dies as I cannot find him on the 1861 census, 1851 census or 1841 census or a record of his birth. His second wife Jane Stevenson's birth is listed as Ireland in the various censuses and William's birth place is given as Greenock Renfrewshire.
Can anyone help me. It is an unusual name mostly listed as Hillicks apart from 1891 when listed as Hillocks. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the family came from Ireland. I cannot find his parents on the earlier censuses.
Thanks Steven
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Hi
I therefore place his birth at circa 1840
The 1871 shows his birthyear as 1851
1881 - 1850 Greenock
1891 = 1848 Johnstone
1901 - 1848 Greenock
Have a look at the 1851 entry for William HILICK b Johnstone 1847 parents James and Rosannah (could be known as Ann)
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Thanks Carol will check it out via Scotlands People.
His age on his death certificate is given as 79 in 1920 so thats where my estimate of his dob was 1840. But your are right looking at the various censuses they say 53 in 1901 and 43 in 1891 etc. I cannot find him at all in 1861 or 1851 or even his father James in any of the earlier censuses. I am beginning to think perhaps they came from Ireland as James second wife Jane is noted in the census as birthplace Ireland.
Steven
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hi all :)
going with carole's thinking there is on the catholic parish register on scotlandspeople -
hellick , william
father james
mother rose motheus
16th july 1846(birth or baptism)
greenock , st marys
ev
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Hi Steve
This is the 1851 census entry that Carole is suggesting may be your William with family - all the children showing as born in Johnstone:
James Hilick 28, general lab., b. Armagh, Ireland
Rosannah Hilick 25 b. Antrim, Ireland
Cather Hilick 8
Jas Hilick 6
William Hilick 4
John Hilick 1
Susan Hilick 1
Address: High Street, Johnstone, Paisley Abbey
What was the occupation showing on William's marriage entries for his father James? Have you tried looking for death entries for parents (wives are always easier as you can search with both married and maiden names).
Monica
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Could this be William with his mother's family for 1861:
Janet Mathew 46, Washerwoman b. Ireland
William Mathew 78, father, lab., b. Ireland
William Hillock 14, boarder, Cotton Mill Hand b. Johnstone
Patrick Denny 46 boarder
Wm John Shaw 30 boarder
Address: 10 Rankine St, Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Monica
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I wonder if William's father James died and mother Roseann married. There is this IGI marriage showing:
ROSANNAH MATHIES and JOHN QUAIL
Marriage: 03 NOV 1858 Abbey (Paisley), Renfrew
And a likely entry for 1861:
John Quail 40
Rosan Quail 35
Jane Hillicks 16...I think this might be James on the original, showing as step son, Cotton Factry Hand
Catherine Hillicks 18, Cotton Factry Hand
Mary Hillicks 9
Stwart Hillicks 9
John Simet 34, lodger
Jane C Harra 40 lodger
Address: Houstown Sqr, Johnstone
Everyone down as born in Johnstone and the Hillick children showing as step children to John Quail.
Monica
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Thanks guys for all your help looks like I am getting somewhere now with your help.
Monica will get some credits from Scotlands People later and get that 1851 census downloaded. You sometimes forget there are some many spelling variations, I have been focusing on Hillicks and Hillocks but didn't try Hilick.
With regard to occupation of William's father James it seems to be general labourer.
What also makes me think this is looking good is the fact that Monica mentioned that had William's father died and on both William's marriage certificates both parents are listed as deceased.
The Irish connection seems to have confirmed everything. No one in my family thought we had roots there. Most seemed to be in Scotland with my grandfather on my fathers side coming from London. The Hillicks line has been my final side to trace via my paternal grandmother and the first link I found to Ireland was William Hillicks 2nd wife Jane Stevenson whose place of birth was given as Ireland.
Will check out all the information and let you know but thanks
Steven
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If it does turn out to be right entries, it was lucky that the 1851 mentioned specifically where James and Roseann were from in Ireland. Most of the time, all you get is Ireland all the way through the records - which is no use at all as Ireland is hard enough to research in this period anyway!
Given that Ev has found a potential reference to a Roman Catholic baptism, you will be unlikely to find any Old Parish Register entries on IGI or SP for them pre 1855 as these relate to the established Church of Scotland, ie presbyterian.
You might want to check on SP for further entries on the family on the recently released Roman Catholic baptism database (RC marriages are also due to be released soon by SP).
Monica
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Steven, the 1851 census entry also shows on FreeCen http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl (if you want to save on some SP units although original images are always special!). Surname showing as Hilick as per Ancestry's transcription.
Monica
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Thanks Monica got the images via Scotlands People as like you its good to have copies of actual census.
I think the 1851 is bang on. Re the 1861 I don't know what one is right as they both look correct. No idea what to go for.
The next thing is to search for both deaths for William's parents James and Rose Ann or Ann but cannot find them via Scotlands People.
Steven
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Hi Steven
James Snr.'s death I am struggling with post 1855, may have died before this date (which means there will be no death cert to be found for him :-\).
Possible death for William's mother in 1871 in Elderslie, Renfrewshire. There is an Ann Quail/Matthews who died that year with a birth year of 1826 which is a possibility.
What did you mean about possibilities for 1861 in the censuses? Which one are you trying to find for that year? We had a possible for mother Roseann remarried to John Quail with her children or the likely entry for William with his mother's family.
Monica
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i Monica pardon me but I was getting confused will all the names. It was only William I was looking for on 1861 census but got the Janes(James) confused with James senior. The 1861 census with William living with his mothers family must be correct.
Re Rose Quails death in 1871 I downloaded it from Scotlands People but unfortunately it doesn't mention a first husband on the certificate. On previous searches I have been lucky and found previous partner noted. James is proving to be very elusive!!!!!!
Thanks again for your help
PS Also downloaded marriage of John Quail and Roseannah Mathies from 1858 but again no clues on it to previous marriage to James
Steven
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That is a pity :-\
On Roseann's marriage, does it show her at least as a widow (re marital status at time of marriage)? Also, does her father show as William Matthews which will let you link up to that possible 1861 census entry with William Hillick living with a Mathews family?
Monica
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Hi Monica sorry I haven't been in touch sooner. On the marriage certificate it shows name as Rosannah with father listed as William Mathies and mother as Catherine (cannot make out maiden name). Rosannah is listed as a widow. Date is given as 3/11/1858 in Catholic Church in Johnstone.
Regards Steven
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I downloaded Ev's suggestion that William's birth may be 1846 on Scotlands People.
It is noted as 16/7/1846 on Catholic birth records and although they have transcribed parents as James Hellick and Rose Motheus when you view the image (which is very poor) it looks like it could easily be James Hillicks and Rose Mathews which would be correct so this may be it!!!!
Will try to print a copy and have a closer look. Re the marriage may have to wait until more records are available via Scotlands People.
Thanks Ev
Steven
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The info from Rosannah marriage in 1858 would seem to fit with the picture that is building :)
Re the baptism entry you now have, does sound like it is it! Remember spellings of names were fluid in those days and entries on registers would reflect that.
Monica
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Checked the Catholic records for James but all I can find is the birth of a son called James ie William's brother and names of parents are James Hillicks and Rosann Mathews. As you say the spellings are all over the place but seem to point to the same people.
Did find James in the 1841 census in Lanark incidently but that is maybe as far as I can go but still a lot further than I had anticipated.
Thanks for all your help its good to have some other perspectives.
Steven
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Thought had found James Hillocks/Hillicks birth in 1860 but as our theory re Rosannah Mathews remarrying John Quail in 1858 it cannot be him. The one I found was James Hillick date of death 18/6/1860 aged 52. It had status as married but no name of spouse. The person registering the death is John Hillick (son). I thought it could be right as on the 1851 census William has a younger brother John but alas the dates don't look good.
Then I thought maybe they had divorced but on Rosannah's marriage in 1858 it has her status as widowed.
At a loss now after thinking I had got somewhere. If anyone has any new suggestions I would be greatly appreciated.
Steven
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Unfortunately Steven, I think it is likely that James Snr. may have died pre 1855 which will make it hard (never say never!) to confirm his parents' details.
There is talk of what there is of RC burial registers coming on line at SP at some point but we are still awaiting the marriage registers to go live on SP first.
The last two Hillick children we had were on the 1861 census as aged 9, so born c. 1851-2. There may have been more though who might have died before the 1861 census.
Monica
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There is a death showing on SP for a likely child of James and Rosannah in 1855, the magic year of certs for Scotland where the entries ran over two pages of the register and included a lot more info than in later years, sadly for a baby by the look of it :'(
1855 - Hugh HILLACH, mother's maiden name Matthew, in Johnstone Renfrewshire. Age is down on the index as 0, so likely to be under a year old.
Might be worth having a peek at it to see what info it contains all round. Hope it is the right family!
Monica
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Checking the RC baptisms for the family. All entries at St Mirin's, Paisley. First date is birth, second date is the baptism:
24/08/1844 & 08/09/1844 - James Hillick, Parents JAMES HILLICK/ROSANNA MATTHEWS
24/06/1849 & 19/08/1849 - John Hillick, Parents JAMES HILLICK/ROSAN MATHENS
24/06/1849 & 19/08/1849 - Susan Hillick, Parents JAMES HILLICK/ROSE ANN MATHENS
30/05/1852 & 01/06/1852 - Mary Hillock, Parents JAMES HILLOCK/ROSE ANN MATHEWS
30/05/1852 & 01/06/1852 - Stewart Hillock, Parents JAMES HILLOCK/ROSE ANN MATHEWS
01/12/1854 & 15/12/1854 - Hugh Hillochs, Parents JAMES HILLOCHS/ROSE ANN MATHESON
Twins obviously ran in the family with the two sets showing :)
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Thanks Monica for all the time and help you have given me.
I downloaded the death for Hugh Hillack (although its says Hillach on search when you look at the certificate it says Hillack). Interestingly it says father James Hillacks is deceased and confirms mother as Roseanna Mathews.
Hugh dies aged 9 and a half months old on October 9th 1855 so you would think this means that James senior dies between 1854 and 1855.
Steven
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Can't see his death at all in 1855, must have been in 1854 which is such a pity for you. Death certs for 1855 are a minefield of personal info and can even include the burial ground details...but sadly I don't think we will find it that year :'(
Monica
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Thanks for checking Monica don't want to give up but think thats it now.
Steven
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Interesting stuff.
I'm looking for a Henry Hillock/Hillick/Hillocks/Hillicks, father of a William Hillock, born 1865 in Belfast. Now the name Hillock is showing up with protestant families but this one was Roman Catholic. I've located a Henry Hillock and MAry BRadley, marrying in Belfast in 1847, St. Patricks, but by 1850s they are in Glasgow. And no child named William is born of these two in Scotland. I know Henry is William's father by William's marriage certificate, to a Ellen Brannan, in 1884, in Belfast.
Do you have any link to Hillick (sp) in Belfast?
thanks
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Hi there the earliest Hillicks I could trace was James who was born in Armagh, Northern Ireland and was married to a Rose Ann Mathews who was born in Antrim probably around 1820 ish. They moved to Partick in Glasgow and their son William was born on 16th July 1846 in Greenock. There seems to have been only 1 family Hillicks that moved to Glasgow, had various children. The name is very rare in Scotland and all stems from James and Rose Ann.
Steven