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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: ClaireG77 on Thursday 11 February 10 16:16 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Be gentle with me - I'm new to this!
Unlike the free Irish parish records the online British census doesn't give enough detail!
Where do I go next?
I have my paternal grandfathers birth & death years & places & his fathers name & DOB but only his mothers first name & DOB - where's the best place to find further information? I can't afford £25 per certificate!
Thanks
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Hi and the gentlest of welcomes to Rootschat
I can't afford £25 per certificate!
And the good news is - they only cost £7 and you can order online
Are you looking for the reference so you can send for a copy of your grandfathers birth cert?
There is a free website http://freebmd.rootsweb.com which can help you with that info
However - if you would give us your grandfathers birth details (date and location) plus his full names we will see if we can help
We may also be able to find his parents marriage so can you also include his mum and dad's christian names
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Hi & thanks for the quick reply!
I went here http://www.bmd-certificates.co.uk/registry/haverfordwest.html and it quotes £25!
Thanks - I'd found freebmd & came up with this (hope it's ok to post!)
Births Sep 1896
Williams Victor Hugo Haverfordwest 11a 1213 Dipsey
(however I have his birth as 13th June that year)
His father was William B Williams (b 1871 also in HVwest, a railway signalman) & his mother was Alice (b 1871 Plymouth)
Hope this is enough? I've done well on my Dad's mothers side & my Mothers lineage just via google but here I'm stuck, lol.
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Hi
That's plenty - and this is where you need to order from www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
Select "Register/login" on your right and then register
You can ring up and order over the phone but it then costs an extra £1.50 - £8.50 instead of £7
Although he was born on 13th June - his parents probably only registered his birth a few weeks later. If it was after 1st July then it falls in the September qtr
Hang fire for half an hour while I do a bit of digging
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Oh you are an angel! Thanks :D
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Looking at the 1901 census his mum was Alice - transcribed as Abie
His dad was William B Williams - thank heavens he had a second name!
Have a think about this marriage which fits nicely with the eldest child being 5yrs old on the 1901 census
Marriages December qtr 1894
Alice Maud Anderson Haverfordwest 11a 1835
William Benjamin Williams
I'm off to have a play around with the 1911 index to see if I can confirm she was Alice
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Bit of a problem with the 1911
Looks like Victor Hugo Williams is in Neath Glamorgan but not with other members of the Williams family
There is an Alice Maud Williams aged 40 b Plymouth in Carmarthen and young Elsie Williams (5mths old in 1901) and husband William b aged 40 are with her so it's definitely the right 1901 family and therefore the right marriage
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Per freebmd
Births March qtr 1871
Alice Maud Anderson Plymouth 5b 269
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That is BRILLIANT!
Many thanks - should get me started quite well! ;D
Is the only way from here to get marriage certs for William & Alice to find their parents? In Ireland all this is free so the British side might have to take a while!
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1871 census for Plymouth
Edwin J Anderson 25 gardener b Devonpool
Hannah M 24 b Torquay
William E 2 b Plymouth
Alice M 2 months b Plymouth
RG10 Piece 2115 Folio 4 Page 2;
Marriages June qtr 1868
Edwin John Anderson / Hannah Matilda L Hellyer Plymouth 5b 439
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Blimey! :D
Can you tell me how you did that please?
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His father was William B Williams (b 1871 also in Haverfordwest, a railway signalman) & his mother was Alice (b 1871 Plymouth)
William Benjamin Williams was born in 1871 and baptised at Haverfordwest St Thomas in 1872.
There is an 8 year old William in Haverfordwest St Thomas Work House in 1881.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Births March qtr 1871
William Benjamin Williams Haverfordwest 11a 838
Unfortunately - cannot find an 1871 entry that I would be happy posting so I think you may have to buy a copy of his birth cert with the money you have saved on Victors to get his parents names
I'll send you a pm re: how to search
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Thanks Oriel ;D I'm hoping it wasn't him in the workhouse - especially as he would have been 10 in 1881. If it was him would he have done so well in life? (becoming a signalman & having a family?)
Carole- you've been a star! I just seem to get charged every time I search the census even if I'm not sure it's right - and then the record doesn't hold any new information!
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Here is the full entry found by Oriel above
WILLIAM BENJAMIN WILLIAMS Birth: 18 FEB 1871 Christening: 07 NOV 1872 Saint Thomas, Haverfordwest Father: JOHN WILLIAMS Mother: ANN
www.familysearch.org
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Using Oriel's info here he is in 1871 in the town of St Thomas - all b St Thomas except John. He was b Pembrokeshire but I cannot make out his actual birthplace
I am sending you a pm
John Williams 31 agric labourer
Ann 29
Mary 3
William 1 month
RG10 Piece 5526 Folio 62 Page 4
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There are too many possible John William's marriages to an Ann in Pembrokeshire around the mid-late 1860's to determine the correct one so you are going to need a copy of William Benjamin's 1871 birth cert if you want to go further back on that side
If I could decipher John's actual birthplace on that 1871 image it may help a little so I am going to post it on the deciphering and recognition board
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Brilliant thanks - will get the cert ordered I think!
Will have a look myself in case I recognise anything :)
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I know you have the 1871 image but here is the link to my request on the D&R board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,437007.msg3006730.html#msg3006730
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Thanks :)
Can you help with one more thing? Trying to order the birth cert but I don't know which number the GRO is?
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Hi
For ordering online go to www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ and register your details as a first time user
The GRO reference is this:
March quarter 1871
William Benjamin Williams District Haverfordwest Volume 11a Page 838
You don't need to put any details in re: parents - just select yes when it asks if you have the GRO reference number
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Ah right, thanks! i thought it was going to ask me for a 3 digit number or something!
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Hi Claire
This is a complete longshot and we will have to wait until we know Ann's maiden name and you are able to get the marriage cert for John Williams & Ann. It will give John's fathers name
1841 census for Llys Y Fran Pembrokeshire - all born in county
David Williams 42 agric labourer
Mary 40
Catherine 15
James 13
Martha 10
Elizabeth 8
Mary 6
Ann 3
John 3 weeks
HO107 Piece 1445/13 Folio 5 Page 5
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Wow that's amazing! Thank you very much. Can't wait to get William birth cert!
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I appear to have caused some confusion. The birth/baptism of Wm B. Williams I gave did not come from the IGI, but from other research, had I got the info from the IGI I would have supplied in full, I apologise for any confusion caused. In my view the IGI is the avenue of last resort due to the shear number of errors and misinformation contained therein.
John & Anne had 3 children baptized in 1872 at H’west St Thomas;
Born 07 Oct 1867 baptised 7 Nov 1872 Mary to John & Anne Williams of Cinnamon Grove a Farm Bailiff
Born the 18th Feb 1870 baptised 7 Nov 1872 to John & Anne Williams of Cinnamon Grove a Farm Bailiff
Born 18 Sept 1872 baptised 07 Nov 1872 Martha Ann to John & Anne Williams of Cinnamon Grove a Farm Bailiff.
It is said elsewhere that St Thomas is a town, not so, St Thomas was a very small rural farming hamlet, today Haverfordwest St Thomas is one of three parishes that make up the established church of the town of Haverfordwest the others of course are St Mary and St Martin. It was quite common for children of one family to be baptized at or in any one of the 3 parish churches on the town irresptive of the parish of their abode.
I had a quick look at my copy of the 1871 census and can confirm that John Williams declares he was born at Llys-y-Fran.
I note 2 references to a John Williams ~ in 1851 at Tyryreglises Llys-y-Fran Morris and Mary among their 7 children shown is John Williams shown as aged 08 yrs, both parents and children declare born at Llys-y-Fran. Also in the 1841 Census at Rhyd ddu Llys-y-Fran is David & Mary Williams with their 7 children one of which is John Williams aged 03 weeks all declare born in County.
Turning to the Llys-y-Fran parish registers there is only one baptism of a John Williams that of 29 Oct 1837 John to Morris and Mary of Pant yr Eglwys a Labourer.
If you would like to send me your email address via a PM I have a couple of jpegs for your interest.
At this point I’m afraid I ran out of time and had to return home to Pembroke.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Okies!
Found William B Williams mother was Ann Morgan but now can't find their marriage - I really am carp at this searching lark but now have a book in order to learn.
Can't open my Legacy either at the mo as I've upgraded & somethings gone wrong!
Thanks for your help guys xx
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Did you get her maiden name from William Benjamin William's birth cert
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Yes - came in this morning's post :)
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Have a look at the one in December qtr 1866 Haverfordwest - Anne Morgan
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Yes saw that but she would have only been 14!
I found 3 marriages that could be her between 1866 & 1873 (when w b williams was born) and they all married a John so can't rule any out.
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Yes saw that but she would have only been 14!
I make her 24 in 1866 - this is the 1871 census I posted earlier
John Williams 31 agric labourer
Ann 29
Mary 3
William 1 month
RG10 Piece 5526 Folio 62 Page 4
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You are of course correct - my math's is shot - I've had a hell of a week!
C xx
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Slow down - your ancestors have been a long time dead so the research will wait.
Get one lot sorted and recorded on a FH software programme before you move onto another or you will end up with your head spinning - particularly with Williams and Morgans
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Yeah - I'm trying to do all branches at the same time. Which is fine when there's a hold-up on one side but then I have names & dates spinning everywhere lol.
Need to get Legacy upgrade sorted first otherwise I've lost the lot anyway!
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I'm trying to find John Williams' DOD - is there an easy way to do this? I'm using FreeBMD to look between 1900 & 1930 though it could be earlier - but there are so many in Haverfordwest (an educated guess he died there) and I don't know how to narrow it down?
I looked on 1901 & 1891 census for him but he doesn't seem to be in that area after 1871 unless I'm doing something wrong.
Can you give me guidelines to find pls?
Thanks ;D
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The only way to narrow it down is by looking at how old they were at time of death
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I'm using FreeBMD to look between 1900 & 1930 though it could be earlier - but there are so many in Haverfordwest (an educated guess he died there)
Do you want some really bad news. My ancestor having lived and worked on Caldey Island all his working life, retired to Saundersfoot, his death in 1924 was registered in Pontypridd Registration District, he actually died at Aberbeeg Monmouthshire. He and his wife lie buried high up in Tenby Cemetery.
Which goes to show the registration district may only be that of the person registering the death and not where the event happened.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Ah right. Well as I don't know DOD I don't know how old he was, lol. It's the one detail I'm missing on 90% of my ancestors and I thought I'd try & tidy up but it's obviously not that easy!
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So....would anyone like to explain how I DO find this info out?
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You check which is the last census he is shown on and search the next census for his wife to confirm she was either a widow or had died/remarried. Both children are young enough to still be at home in 1881
You then search freebmd for the 10yrs between censuses or up to the re-marriage for a death
You also need to consider that Ann may have died and John re-married so you should not confine any census search to a John & Ann Williams
Other considerations are:
Ages at death are only as accurate as the knowledge of the person who reported the death. If it was somebody who did not have a great personal knowledge - the age may not tie in with what you know
If you cannot find a likely death between 1871-1881 - then perhaps you need to search the 1881 census again
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Once you have followed Carolew's recommendations if you are left with just a few dates of burial, then let me have them and I can at least check the 3 established parishes of H'west on your behalf for the burial dates you require.
Of course any burial in H'west registration district can cover an awfull lot of parishes and non-conformist chapel yards, however eliminating the obvious 1st will be a step forward for you.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Well John's alive & well in 1901 age 60. No more census' recent then that so how would I narrow it down?
Is 1901censusonline the only place to gain access to all the census'? I don't really want to waste anymore money on that site as I never get value for money (either end up checking the wrong person to rule them out or don't get to use up my credits in 7 days)
Thanks for the help :)
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Do you mean 1911 as that is the last online census but it is only available on a pay per view basis
Yes - you would have to see if he was still alive in 1911. If you are determined to find his date of death then that is the only way you are going to achieve it
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Ok thanks. Guess will have to leave it until I get paid employment again!
Best guess using FreeBMD is;
Deaths Mar 1904
WILLIAMS John 64 Haverfordwest 11a 821 Columbine
Though due to your experience Orillo this could be totally incorrect. I'd appreciate a look at those records going by the above though if you're able? Tp rule it out if nothing else.
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To ClaireG77. Came across this site by accident and not sure how to use it yet. however, I am the youngest son of Victor Hugo Williams born 1896 in Haverfordwest. I would be interested to know how much information you have. I've gone back to my grandfather William Benjamin williams and on my mother's side - maiden name Winifred Georgina Tutcher - some considerable info going back 5 generations.
I enclose a photo of Victor taken in Salonika in 1917.
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Thanks Terry - a fab picture ;D
C xx
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Hi Uncle Terry, am now doing to the grandparents of Williams B Williams on his fathers side - just working on his mothers side now. Are you still working on this? x