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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: pteverett001 on Wednesday 10 February 10 17:39 GMT (UK)
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After some kind help previously on this board I have got hold of the marriage certificate for my great great grandparents Thomas Stanton Thatcher and Sarah Dutton Bailey.
The marriage certificate notes that Thomas was illegitimate and I am having trouble finding details for obtaining his birth certificate. His father was Thomas Stanton, a Baker, and they were living in Chelsea when they got married.
However I am not sure whether his birth would be registered under Stanton Thatcher, or just Stanton, or Thatcher which I assume was his mothers name?
I have found a Thomas Stanton, a baker in Chelsea, in the 1851 census, but it looks like he was married after the birth of Thomas, presumably to a different woman. All the children noted, which doesnt include this Thomas, are aged after his DOB.
If anyone can help with pinning down Thomas Stanton Thatcher's birth it would be much appreciated.
The other question I have refers to Sarah Dutton Bailey. Given her father is noted on the marriage cert as George William Bailey, does her name imply that she was also illegitimate even though this is not mentioned on the marriage cert?
I hope all that makes sense, please let me know if it doesn't.
Thanks
Paul
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Hi Paul
Can you just clarify what it said on the marriage certificate for Thomas as I am curious about it stating he was illegitimate, as far as I know english marriage certificates don't usually state this kind of information. If it says he was illegitimate where have you got his father's name from - Thomas Stanton the baker.
George William Bailey is the same name as Sarah Dutton Bailey, so that does not particularly imply she was illegitimate if she has named a father on her marriage certificate with the same surname as herself. The Dutton could be her mother's maiden name or some other family name.
Tressle :)
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Hi Tressle
Thanks for the response to my post.
I am no expert on marriage certs but this one clearly has the word illegitimate under Thomas Stanton Thatchers name on the certificate, but it also shows his fathers name and occupation. There is though a * by the word and another over the fathers name with something written that is illegible. It says "this is a ca.... c...." as far as I can make out.
It sounds very odd to by modern standards but maybe it was acceptable in the mid 19th century?
Paul
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Hi Paul
I have had a look at the marriage certificate now and see where it says illegitimate on the margin of the certificate
Tressle
adding after your post. - it is helpful that they decided to put this and very honest as well.
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This is the only one I can find
Thomas Stanton, Q4 1846 Chelsea, Volume:3 Page:58
There is a Thomas Thatcher born Chelsea with his grandparents on the 1851 and 1861 census but I cannot find a Thomas Thatcher registration (in chelsea).
Tressle
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modified
Could this be him in 1851 1473/fol. 408 5 Little Bleneim Street Chelsea
Thomas Thatcher 5 grandson born Chelsea
with his grandparents James & Rebecca Thatcher
Tantalizing name at no.6 on previous page ?ailey.
Jennifer
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Hi Tressle have you got the ref for 1861, I can not spot him?
Jennifer
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Hi
The answer may be neither since no fine was put in place for the none registration of births until 1875. The likeliest births to not be registered were illegitimate ones. If there was a registration then it could be in either surname. There were no real checks in the system until after the Second World War so though the birth should have been registered as an illegitimate one - in the surname Thatcher, all that was needed for a legitimate birth registration was for the mother to bluff it out with the registrar. If she wasn't known to the registrar, which would be likely in a city the size of London, then the birth could very well have been registered in the surname Stanton as a legitimate birth.
Thomas consistently gives his birth year on censuses as circa 1846/7 (depending on when his birthday was in relation to census night) and Chelsea as his place of birth. There are no Thomas Thatcher birth registrations in Chelsea registration district in these two years but there is a Thomas Stanton birth registration, which presumably is why you are asking the question.
Births Dec 1846 Stanton Thomas Chelsea 3 58
Thomas appears with his Thatcher grandparents James and Rebecca on the 1851 and 1861 census in Chelsea. James was a carpenter born in Walworth.
Baptism Christ Church, St Luke Chelsea 6th December 1846
Thomas Thatcher son of Thomas and Sarah Thatcher, 1? ? Street, father's occupation baker
Baptism 9 Sep 1827 St George the Martyr Southwark born 23rd June 1827
Sarah Thatcher parents James Joseph and Rebecca, Cottage Place, Lyon Street, Kent Road, father's occupation carpenter.
Deaths Jun 1866
Thatcher James J 63 Chelsea 1a 170
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda, Jennifer and Tressle, thats very helpful and certainly points me in the right direction. I will get a copy of the birth cert Valda mentioned and hope thats him.
Paul
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Hi
On the 1871 census Sarah gave her birthplace as Brompton and on the 1881 census Knightsbridge.
1851 census HO107 1480 folio 754
3 Knights Green Hamlet of Knightsbridge St Margarets Westminster
Martha Bailey 31 Head Widow Laundress Chelsea Middlesex
James Bailey 11 Son Knightsbridge Middlesex
Sarah Bailey 11 Months Knightsbridge Middlesex
Births Dec 1849 BAILEY Sarah Westminster 1 421
or
Births Sep 1849 DUTTON Sarah Westminster 1 435
1841 census HO107 738/17 folio 20
High Road Knightsbridge St Margaret Westminster
George Bailey 30 Plasterer J(ourneyman) not born Middlesex
Charlotte Bailey 20 born Middlesex
James Bailey 2 born Middlesex
26th August 1838 St Luke, Chelsea
George Dutton Full Age Bachelor Plasterer 2 Phoenix Place Knightsbridge Thomas Dutton Plasterer
Charlotte Martha Pollard Full Age Spinster 2 Phoenix Place Knightsbridge James Pollard Plasterer
Marriage by banns. Both signed
Witnesses James Fowler and W Turner?
Births Dec 1845 Dutton Ann Elizabeth Westminster 1 432
Deaths Jun 1847 Dutton Ann Elizabeth Westminster 1 362
4th January 1846 Holy Trinity Brompton born 15th October 1845
Ann Elizabeth Dutton, parents George and Charlotte Martha, 5 Hoopers Court, father's occupation plasterer
Same church burial 8th June 1847
Ann Elizabeth Dutton aged 2 Knightsbridge
Same church burial 30th March 1850
George Dutton Bailey, Hoopers Court aged 35
Possibly this death registration as the burial is indexed as George Dalton Bailey but the actual entry looks just as likely for Dutton but it should really be a Westminster death registration so it may just be missing from the GRO index
Deaths Mar 1850
DALTON George Kensington 3 218
Baptism 31st July 1842 Holy Trinity, Brompton Road
Robert Thomas Bailey parents George and Martha, 1 Phoenix Place, father's occupation Plasterer
same church burial 9th April 1844
Robert Thomas Bailey Hoopers Court aged 2
Deaths Jun 1844 BAILEY Robert Thomas Westminster 1 342
Regards
Valda
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Many thanks Valda, thats really helpful.
Paul
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Hello.
My great-great grandfather was Thomas Stanton the Baker who lived in Chelsea, London. I am intrigued by your post about the illegitimate child. Please could you provide me with as much information as possible and in return I will give you as much information as I have about Thomas Stanton and his family. My e-mail address is: *
Thank you and hope to hear from you soon
Kind Regards
Andrea
Moderator's Comment
Email address removed from the topic inline with Rootschat policy to protect members from spamming etc.
Please see the information on the Rootschat Personal Messaging system for sending personal information.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Hi Andrea
Welcome to Rootschat. Rootschat policy is to remove emails for the safety of the website members. Messages on Rootschat appear on Google within about three minutes so that's a lot of spamming possibilities if members make their email addresses public on topics. This is why Rootschat has a private personal messaging system which allows members to exchange information such as their email addresses. To use the personal messaging system you must make three posts on Rootschat. Acknowledging this post would be your second post.
Regards
Valda
Co-moderator London and Middlesex