RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: nedster on Tuesday 09 February 10 20:47 GMT (UK)
-
Can anybody help in trying to find the birth and death of my grandfather JAMES PARR, his marriage certificate to Emily Tomkings dated Dec 1st 1900 states his age was 20 they married at All Hallows Bromley in London. His Father was also James Parr occupation Labourer.
I have a copy of Emily's second marriage in 1907 to Charles Wade she states she was a widower so i assume that JAMES PARR died between 1900 and 1907 but i cant find him listed in the BMD.
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank You
-
What was his occupation/address ?
Could this be him in 1891 329/fol. 129 17 Annabel Street Poplar
James Parr 35 Boot finisher
Eliza 13
James 11 all born Whitechapel.
Jennifer
-
Thanks Jennifer,
I have that census in my pending file, its really his death that i am having trouble finding, between 1900 and 1907 all the records i have seen on Free BMD do not tally with his age, or maybe when Emily stated she was a widower on her second marriage, she wasn't and he died later.
Oh what fun family history is.
Thanks for your response.
Reagards
David
-
Just a thought, could he have fought in the Boer War and died out there ???
Rosie
-
Hi Rosie,
Wow thats a fought, any ideas where such deaths are recorded.
Regards
David
-
Sorry I don't know - I had a look at the Commonwealth war graves but couldn't see him. Where was Emily in 1901 ? Presumably she had a child by him, when were they born?
Rosie
-
Hi
The Commonwealth War Graves Commission remit
'Established by Royal Charter in 1917, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission pays tribute to the 1,700,000 men and women of the Commonwealth forces who died in the two world wars. '
Emily married James Parr on 1st December 1900 at All Hallows Bromley. The birthdates of Louisa Emily and her half brother limited the dates of the search for James Parr's possible death.
All Saints Poplar 26th July 1906 born 8th January 1902
Louisa Emily Parr parents James and Emily, 20 Tyas Road ?, father's occupation Labourer deceased
Baptised on the same day in the same church born 1st July
Charles Francis Wade parents Charles Robert and Emily, 20 Tyas Road ?, father's occupation seaman
Emily and Charles Robert Wade married on 1st December 1907 at St Gabriel Bromley
The help guide at the top of the London and Middlesex boards
A GUIDE TO ENGLISH CIVIL REGISTRATION
Will give information on which websites the overseas GRO military deaths can be found and/or why a death registration for a seaman (though James on his marriage gave his occupation as labourer) may not be found in the GRO indexes.
This website has an index to Boer War deaths
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Boer/
It may not be completely comprehensive.
Marriages did break down and because free legal aid for divorce was not available until after the First World War bigamous second marriages in anonymous cities were not as rare as people think, though usually the couple moved away from their local area.
Regards
Valda
-
Hi Valda,
Thanks very much for the information, it will be another avenue to go down in my search for the death of James Parr.
Having searched for the couple in the 1901 for ages, i have came across a Emily and James Parr living at 282 Devons Road in Bromley, which must have been a stones throw from All Hallows Church where they married in 1900, the only drawback is the census states that James's age at the time was 35 and Emily 33,
would you consider this an error in the numerators part.
Occupation for James was a RAG RING C..... MAKER. ?????????? Not sure if i have copied this correctly, any ideas on this?
Valda once again many thanks for the information you passed on.
Best Regards
David
-
Hi
I did see the census entry and considered it, but gave as a starting point the information I was sure of. It is possible the ages are an error but it is more unusual to find both ages in error.
I think the occupation is probably packing case maker.
The most useful way forward at this point might be to purchase James and Emily's daughter's birth certificate and see what information is given on that.
Births Mar 1902
PARR Louisa Emily Poplar 1c 614
Regards
Valda
-
Nedster,
Did you have any luck finding the date of death for James Parr? His marriage was to Emily Martha Tompkings born 1880 in Limehouse. They married on the 1st December 1900 and was widowed from him on 1st December 1907. She must have liked the 1st December because that was the date she married Charles Robert Wade. They would have been my Great Grandparents.
Charles Wade died in RN Hospital Hasler December 1915 from injuries recieved during WW1.
The above I obtained from a member of Genes Reunited who had carried out a lot of research into the Tomkings family.
I found a couple possibles for James Parr on GR. There is one in 1891 aged 10 in Poplar which is a stones throw from Bromley and is almost considered to be as one with Poplar. My gran was brought up and lived in Devons Road area up to the war. He would have been almost 20 (same age as Emily) by December 1900. I know the area well and lived in Poplar till I was 18.
Well I hope this is of some use to you. I have followed in GGrandfather Wades footsteps by going to sea and as its my first day off for a couple of weeks I'm off to enjoy a couple of cold beers in one of Curacao finest seafront bars.
Cheers, George
-
Nedster,
Did you have any luck finding the date of death for James Parr? His marriage was to Emily Martha Tompkings born 1880 in Limehouse. They married on the 1st December 1900 and was widowed from him on 1st December 1907. She must have liked the 1st December because that was the date she married Charles Robert Wade. They would have been my Great Grandparents.
Charles Wade died in RN Hospital Hasler December 1915 from injuries recieved during WW1.
The above I obtained from a member of Genes Reunited who had carried out a lot of research into the Tomkings family.
I found a couple possibles for James Parr on GR. There is one in 1891 aged 10 in Poplar which is a stones throw from Bromley and is almost considered to be as one with Poplar. My gran was brought up and lived in Devons Road area up to the war. He would have been almost 20 (same age as Emily) by December 1900. I know the area well and lived in Poplar till I was 18.
Well I hope this is of some use to you. I have followed in GGrandfather Wades footsteps by going to sea and as its my first day off for a couple of weeks I'm off to enjoy a couple of cold beers in one of Curacao finest seafront bars.
Cheers, George
Hi George,
Thank you very much for the information regarding my grandfather James Parr, sadly after relentless searches I have never found details of when and how he died.
Thanks for the details regarding Charles Wade, I wonder if Emily married for a third time after his death?
I have still got the burning desire to find more about him, I guess you just gave me the push to renew my investigations.
George I really appreciate your message, once again thank you.
Regards
David.
-
Nedster,
There were two girls born to Emily and James. Louise you have details of was born 8/1/1902 and a second born Q4 of the same year. Her name was Emily Margaret Parr. There is a record of her death in Q1 1906 aged 3. Poplar 1C 327 is the reference on FreeBMD. Not sure if you know Poplar but it had one of the highest infant mortality rates in the country for many years.
Emily went on to have five children to Charles Wade. Two boys, Charles and William and three girls Doris, Lilian and Ada, my grandmother. I knew them all when I was growing up except Lilian.
Charles Wade was a seaman on HMS Philomel and I believe he died of injuries during a conflict with Turkish troops during a landing operation of (probably) ANZAC troops during the Gallipoli campaign.
Emily never married again although she had another son to a Joseph Scourfield in 1920. The reason I heard that she never married Scourfield was that she was afraid of losing her Widows War Pension. Scourfield has been described as "a bit fly" (this from a police officer retired) and he tried to do Emily out of her pension. One of her sons gave him such a hiding when he found out that he, the son, run off to join the British Army in India for fear that he may have gone a bit too far! Such was the Wades form of justice. My Nan being one of the worst!
It does seem strange you can find no record of his death. I only joined this site yesterday hoping to find anything of my Rollinson family in Ratcliff but not a mention here. I found some of them in the 1841 census in a house with 22 people of varying families but they disappeared for the next two census.
Good luck with your search.
George
-
Nedster,
There were two girls born to Emily and James. Louise you have details of was born 8/1/1902 and a second born Q4 of the same year. Her name was Emily Margaret Parr. There is a record of her death in Q1 1906 aged 3. Poplar 1C 327 is the reference on FreeBMD. Not sure if you know Poplar but it had one of the highest infant mortality rates in the country for many years.
Emily went on to have five children to Charles Wade. Two boys, Charles and William and three girls Doris, Lilian and Ada, my grandmother. I knew them all when I was growing up except Lilian.
Charles Wade was a seaman on HMS Philomel and I believe he died of injuries during a conflict with Turkish troops during a landing operation of (probably) ANZAC troops during the Gallipoli campaign.
Emily never married again although she had another son to a Joseph Scourfield in 1920. The reason I heard that she never married Scourfield was that she was afraid of losing her Widows War Pension. Scourfield has been described as "a bit fly" (this from a police officer retired) and he tried to do Emily out of her pension. One of her sons gave him such a hiding when he found out that he, the son, run off to join the British Army in India for fear that he may have gone a bit too far! Such was the Wades form of justice. My Nan being one of the worst!
It does seem strange you can find no record of his death. I only joined this site yesterday hoping to find anything of my Rollinson family in Ratcliff but not a mention here. I found some of them in the 1841 census in a house with 22 people of varying families but they disappeared for the next two census.
Good luck with your search.
George
Hello again George,
Firstly I can't thank you enough for your last message, I can't tell you how excited I got reading it.
So if my research is correct my grandmother had a half sister called Ada who married a man called Johnny, I believe they had two children Audrey and Patrick.
Audrey married George who in turn had three children? Pauline, Janice and Patricia.
I really hope I have my facts correct, as when my parents got married iat the Oval, Ada & Johnny attended and I have a photograph of them.
As a child we used to visit Ada at her house in Poplar, I can still visualise it now, I think it backed onto some sought of park, square ???
I do have the name Schofield jotted as told by my mother who s still alive, she recalls a company called Johnson and Matthey gold dealers who she thinks a Schofield worked for.
I do hope you make sense of my ramblings, if you wish to contact me by email it is (*)
Regards
David
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php